Don't use your race as an excuse!!!

[BrassFusion]

Being black and discriminated against is not culture. If it was about culture I would be praised, looked up to. Shit look at what many blacks have over come.

I'm not trying to make race into an excuse.

Ignorance makes race an excuse.

My ethnic makeup (not background) has made me less compassionate to man (as in humankind). I have been called nigger, gook, mick etc. I have been blamed for others oppression and heartache all because of my race.

My culture consists of the home and neighborhood I grew up in. La La Livonia. Which was by the way, not very kind to my race when I was growing up. My racial make up has made me bitter and hateful toward many people.

But like HH says. Stop using race as an excuse. People also need to stop pretending that it isnt a problem either.

Race will always be an issuse as long as ignorance survives.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Racism and ignorance feed off one another, and in my shallow-minded opinion, they both feed off affirmative action programs. I don't see why minority groups should deserve special consideration in getting jobs or scholarships. Do you have any idea how hard it's been for me to find a job lately? Of course you don't, because you're not me and I haven't told you, lol... But it's been hard. There's no room for prejudice in an employer's market and that's what affirmative action is.

As for having kids make fun of you for being mixed, I honestly don't care. I don't see why that should get you a foot forward when you're an adult.

[wheresmypiggy]

As for having kids make fun of you for being mixed, I honestly don't care. I don't see why that should get you a foot forward when you're an adult.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Not to snap back rudely or anything but.....

Being made fun of for being mixed didn't just consist of not having friends or people making little racial jokes.

It consisted of kids putting stuff into my hair because it would disappear into the afro.

Having kids dump water onto my head to watch my hair suck it up as a sponge.

Having nigger written on your driveway in chalk daily.

Having your face smashed into the school cafeteria windows and told that the other kids father will burn your nigger house down.

I understand that any kids can get picked on. But the reason I was picked on was my race. I'm bitter to this day about it. Of course I'm a better person and let it go.

But you do realize that in school the teachers would refuse to teach me. I was told I could not read or write (even though I was extrememly intelligent). They tried to hold me back throughout elementary and jr high school. This isnt' just children.

So yes. I do believe I deserve a foot forward as an adult. I was denied the basics as a child from society. I just needed help regaining my ground again.

I do believe the government should have continued paying for my college. I was a productive part of society. I'm not saying pay all of it. But yes, because i was black I did not receive the same teaching or opportunities as other white students. If the govenrment was going to use me throughout school so they could recycle more of their money into the school systems and take credit for it then I believe some of that money should be put to good use.

Race was used against me my whole life. Why can't I use race to my advantage now? I'm a productive memeber of society. I pay my taxes. I work. I volunteer in my community. I give more than I have.

I have a 12yr old sister. Comes from the same home. Same schools. Same family. Same up bringing. She has never had any of these problems.

Race is not the problem. Ignorance is. There will always be ignorance against race and so there will always be racial issues.

[phee]

Hey I was beaten up in jr high as well, I had people punch me in the face, on the school trips someone pissed in my lunch. Teachers did nothing about it when I went to get help, I was followed home, kicked and jumped in the locker room.... and I am white.... so what does that mean? I am sorry that race was used as an excuse to mistreat you, but other people are mistreated regardless of race

Where is my extra help in my adult life?

[BrassFusion]

I have a 12yr old sister. Comes from the same home. Same schools. Same family. Same up bringing. She has never had any of these problems.

Race is not the problem. Ignorance is. There will always be ignorance against race and so there will always be racial issues.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Your sister's an example of the system fixing itself. America is so racially and culturally diverse anymore that it's UNCOMMON for widespread racial bias to occur, and REALLY RISKY for people to attempt it.

And I don't know what you mean by your closing sentence, because it totally contradicts the one that came before it.

I believe it's wrong that you had benefits that were revoked, that's like pulling the rug from under you and I'm surprised they did that- but I don't believe that the benefits should be in place any longer at all. I don't think a REAL "black" person deserves grants and scholarships based on their race any more than you do.

[Blackmail]

Not to snap back rudely or anything but.....

Being made fun of for being mixed didn't just consist of not having friends or people making little racial jokes.

It consisted of kids putting stuff into my hair because it would disappear into the afro.

Having kids dump water onto my head to watch my hair suck it up as a sponge.

Having nigger written on your driveway in chalk daily.

Having your face smashed into the school cafeteria windows and told that the other kids father will burn your nigger house down.

I understand that any kids can get picked on. But the reason I was picked on was my race. I'm bitter to this day about it. Of course I'm a better person and let it go.

But you do realize that in school the teachers would refuse to teach me. I was told I could not read or write (even though I was extrememly intelligent). They tried to hold me back throughout elementary and jr high school. This isnt' just children.

So yes. I do believe I deserve a foot forward as an adult. I was denied the basics as a child from society. I just needed help regaining my ground again.

I do believe the government should have continued paying for my college. I was a productive part of society. I'm not saying pay all of it. But yes, because i was black I did not receive the same teaching or opportunities as other white students. If the govenrment was going to use me throughout school so they could recycle more of their money into the school systems and take credit for it then I believe some of that money should be put to good use.

Race was used against me my whole life. Why can't I use race to my advantage now? I'm a productive memeber of society. I pay my taxes. I work. I volunteer in my community. I give more than I have.

I have a 12yr old sister. Comes from the same home. Same schools. Same family. Same up bringing. She has never had any of these problems.

Race is not the problem. Ignorance is. There will always be ignorance against race and so there will always be racial issues.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I am not saying I think you are lying but I grew up in Livonia and went to Grant Elementary and my friend Curtis, who I have known since 1982, is black and has not had the same experiences as you. And he is very dark. You don't really look black to me. I am not saying you aren't, I am just saying I find it odd that people would go out of their way to call you the "n" word when I wouldn't even know you were black if you didn't tell me.

But I am sorry all that stuff happened to you.

[Blackmail]

I am not saying I think you are lying but I grew up in Livonia and went to Grant Elementary and my friend Curtis, who I have known since 1982, is black and has not had the same experiences as you.  And he is very dark.  You don't really look black to me.  I am not saying you aren't, I am just saying I find it odd that people would go out of their way to call you the "n" word when I wouldn't even know you were black if you didn't tell me. 

But I am sorry all that stuff happened to you.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

By the way, I just re-read that and it sounds more harsh than I intended it to be. I didn't mean to come off doubting you or questioning your race, I was just saying even in Livonia some people who look like you didn't have some of the same problems. Not that racism doesn't exist but I've not heard about the "N" word flying around so freely there. But maybe you were from a different part of town, I grew up near Plymouth and Farmington roads.

[phee]

Hey I was beaten up in jr high as well, I had people punch me in the face, on the school trips someone pissed in my lunch. Teachers did nothing about it when I went to get help, I was followed home, kicked and jumped in the locker room.... and I am white.... so what does that mean? I am sorry that race was used as an excuse to mistreat you, but other people are mistreated regardless of race

Where is my extra help in my adult life?

I didn't mean to sound harsh either... but by this line of reasoning it sounds like your are saying that if you had a hard childhood (for any reason) the world owes you.... It simply doesn't work that way....

[kellygrrrrrl]

Race was not my issue.

Being poor was.

Black kids, Mixed kids, other ethnicity kids, white kids all made fun of me and beat me up and whatever because I was poor.

I was the dirty kid wearing the same clothes 2 weeks in a row. Not going on field trips because it was too expnsive, getting free-lunch, going to the clothing bank during school hours then teased for it, the teachers would never come to my rescue. I can remember one time in particular one kid started making fun of me because my family was on welfare. The WHOLE class started laughing...the teacher did nothing nor said anything and just let it happen.

I was never picked for anything, the teachers pretty much ignored me all through school. Invisible if you will.

We were dirty, stinky and had heads full of lice.

The teachers wouldn't even come near me.

The kids were the worst. One girl in particular...who was "mixed" in the LA La Livonia Public school system. Lakeisha Jackson....I'll never forget that girl.

She made my life hell in school. For years. I never knew why. She made fun of everything from my clothes to my nose to the way I walk. Encouraged kids to poke fun WITH her.

Said I had a nigger nose. Pig nose.

I never had any advantages becasue I was poor.

I made my life. Myself. Never had anything handed to me ever.

I never used money to get what I wanted. I used my brain.

I was average in school. Never got any extra attention. I was underprivelidged if you ask me.

I was in the system my whole life.

I got into highschool and worked part time until I got out, and then found a full time job, working for an asshole Black man Btw. It was always instilled in me that if I want it I work for it.

I worked from the bare bottom up.

I had no advantages. No scholarships, nothing.

I was invisible in school.

Is it race or is it the choices you've made in life that have prevented the success you seek?

One shouldn't EXPECT to get something just because.

Entitlement. nobody is entitled to anything.

There are circumstances where welfare and government aid should be concidered, but after intense weekly drug testing and backround checks and such.

(I don't know why they didn't pass the drug testing thing....)

There are tons of black people that I went to school with that got better education, opportunities than myself just becasue they were black..and doing much better than me finacnially.

[phee]

Race was not my issue.

Being poor was.

Black kids, Mixed kids, other ethnicity kids, white kids all made fun of me and beat me up and whatever because I was poor.

I was the dirty kid wearing the same clothes 2 weeks in a row.  Not going on field trips because it was too expnsive, getting free-lunch, going to the clothing bank during school hours then teased for it, the teachers would never come to my rescue.  I can remember one time in particular one kid started making fun of me because my family was on welfare.  The WHOLE class started laughing...the teacher did nothing nor said anything and just let it happen. 

I was never picked for anything, the teachers pretty much ignored me all through school.  Invisible if you will.

We were dirty, stinky and had heads full of lice. 

The teachers wouldn't even come near me.

The kids were the worst.  One girl in particular...who was "mixed" in the LA La Livonia Public school system. Lakeisha Jackson....I'll never forget that girl.

She made my life hell in school.  For years.  I never knew why.  She made fun of everything from my clothes to my nose to the way I walk.  Encouraged kids to poke fun WITH her.

Said I had a nigger nose.  Pig nose.

I never had any advantages becasue I was poor.

I made my life.  Myself. Never had anything handed to me ever.

I never used money to get what I wanted.  I used my brain.

I was average in school.  Never got any extra attention.  I was underprivelidged if you ask me.

I was in the system my whole life. 

I got into highschool and worked part time until I got out, and then found a full time job, working for an asshole Black man Btw.  It was always instilled in me that if I want it I work for it. 

I worked from the bare bottom up. 

I had no advantages.  No scholarships, nothing.

I was invisible in school.

Is it race or is it the choices you've made in life that have prevented the success you seek?

One shouldn't EXPECT to get something just because.

Entitlement.  nobody is entitled to anything.

There are circumstances where welfare and government aid should be concidered, but after intense weekly drug testing and backround checks and such. 

(I don't know why they didn't pass the drug testing thing....)

There are tons of black people that I went to school with that got better education, opportunities than myself just becasue they were black..and doing much better than me finacnially.

That's my point exactly yes

[The_Dark]

hold on a sec people... Your going to get the ACLU and everyone else in an upraor. You can't ever, I do mean EVER, point out that not all white people are rich or that there are black people who are not poor and discriminated against. God forbid you point out that reverse discrimination happens just as often as discrimination. You should also never point out that College grants and scholarships should go to the people that earned them by working hard and learning rather than being given out based on skin color.

[kellygrrrrrl]

I like that Dark.

[phee]

hold on a sec people... Your going to get the ACLU and everyone else in an upraor. You can't ever, I do mean EVER, point out that not all white people are rich or that there are black people who are not poor and discriminated against. God forbid you point out that reverse discrimination happens just as often as discrimination. You should also never point out that College grants and scholarships should go to the people that earned them by working hard and learning rather than being given out based on skin color.

:fear :innocent :whistling

[DarkVampire]

I can understand wheremypiggy is coming from, race related. I'm a 1/4 Indian which i didn't even mention in this thread. I mentioned my other "races" but not that. A stupid side effect when I was growing up. One day when I was a kid, I mentioned I was part Indian in school and after that day I was constantly picked on. It got to the point that I no longer acknowledge or had anything to do with that part of my genetic makeup.

[BrassFusion]

I can understand wheremypiggy is coming from, race related. I'm a 1/4 Indian which i didn't even mention in this thread. I mentioned my other "races" but not that. A stupid side effect when I was growing up. One day when I was a kid, I mentioned I was part Indian in school and after that day I was constantly picked on. It got to the point that I no longer acknowledge or had anything to do with that part of my genetic makeup.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Feather, or dot?

[Marblez]

I can understand wheremypiggy is coming from, race related. I'm a 1/4 Indian which i didn't even mention in this thread. I mentioned my other "races" but not that. A stupid side effect when I was growing up. One day when I was a kid, I mentioned I was part Indian in school and after that day I was constantly picked on. It got to the point that I no longer acknowledge or had anything to do with that part of my genetic makeup.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Wow, this shocks me. I am very proud of my native american heritage. I received the opposite treatment. People would ask about my background and they would "ooh" and "aah" over it. Never once did I have a problem.

I was called a nigger once in kindergarten by a misinformed child, but that one occaision was as far as that went.

[Hellion]

:devil Just because I am 70% German,and it does'nt surprise me that ignorant people will say I am a skinhead or nazi,which I know I am not.America is full of blind ignorant people.IMO

[Steven]

I am not saying I think you are lying but I grew up in Livonia and went to Grant Elementary and my friend Curtis, who I have known since 1982, is black and has not had the same experiences as you.  And he is very dark.  You don't really look black to me.  I am not saying you aren't, I am just saying I find it odd that people would go out of their way to call you the "n" word when I wouldn't even know you were black if you didn't tell me. 

But I am sorry all that stuff happened to you.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

oh man, I hate to say this Ted, cause I like you....but what a dumb ass comment.

The day I met Jesi (actually befroe that even.....the day I saw her picture) I knew she was mixed, and that part of that mix was black. Recognizing that in her physicality did not cause anything to stir in me, because I like her, I liked her then and I like her now, and all I saw/see was Jesi.

But not everyone thinks this way.

There are those out there who recognize a difference and negatively capitalize on it. Because they've been taught to. They've been taught to search for it - and point a finger at it - and blame their personal woes on it by way of projection.

[BrassFusion]

oh man, I hate to say this Ted, cause I like you....but what a dumb ass comment.

The day I met Jesi (actually befroe that even.....the day I saw her picture) I knew she was mixed, and that part of that mix was black.  Recognizing that in her physicality did not cause anything to stir in me, because I like her, I liked her then and I like her now, and all I saw/see was Jesi.

But not everyone thinks this way. 

There are those out there who recognize a difference and negatively capitalize on it.  Because they've been taught to.  They've been taught to search for it - and point a finger at it - and blame their personal woes on it by way of projection.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Oh man, I hate to say this, Steven, cuz I like you and I'm normally not on the same wavelength as Ted, but...

He was just saying that he's surprised she was so discriminated against in the racial climate she grew up in. Hell, I'm surprised too. Race relations have improved dramatically in the past 100 years, 50 years, 20 years. I believe they're continuing to improve. I believe the trend is irreversable.

I also believe that affirmative action is NOT helping that, and that it's past time to stop officially considering race in... well, anything. But it's the sort of problem that will fix itself over time, so I'm not a crusader against it.

So yeah. I agree with Ted.

Scary.

[Blackmail]

Steven

when Wheresmypiggy just joined DGN about a year and a half ago she announced she was black, i remember several of us at CC commenting that she did not look black at all.

She looked very different back then though, maybe with shorter hair she looks more black.

Whatever, she should be proud of whatever she is. I was just saying I know someone who grew up in the same area who was darker skinned who didn't have the same experiences.

[Steven]

Steven

when Wheresmypiggy just joined DGN about a year and a half ago she announced she was black, i remember several of us at CC commenting that she did not look black at all.

She looked very different back then though, maybe with shorter hair she looks more black.

Whatever, she should be proud of whatever she is.    I was just saying I know someone who grew up in the same area who was darker skinned who didn't have the same experiences.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I know dude. please refer to my response to Brass.......

[Steven]

Oh man, I hate to say this, Steven, cuz I like you and I'm normally not on the same wavelength as Ted, but...

He was just saying that he's surprised she was so discriminated against in the racial climate she grew up in. Hell, I'm surprised too. Race relations have improved dramatically in the past 100 years, 50 years, 20 years. I believe they're continuing to improve. I believe the trend is irreversable.

I also believe that affirmative action is NOT helping that, and that it's past time to stop officially considering race in... well, anything. But it's the sort of problem that will fix itself over time, so I'm not a crusader against it.

So yeah. I agree with Ted.

Scary.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Good intro Brass. Made me chuckle.

The affirmative action comment that you weaved in here - it does not really go with what I was trying to point out to Ted (and incidently I am against affirmative action for the same reasons that you cited).

Here in Michigan - I've encountered more blatant racism and dividing lines than I ever did in California. I've heared the word NIGGER here more than anywhere else in my life. I've also heard the word Spic.....something I have not heard in many years. About 15 years ago I was in Hines Park with my wife, and there were white supremacists in the park handing out leaflets to people.....I'd only seen that kind of thing before on TV. The blatant division between white and black here in Detroit was an eye opener for me. As a kid I dated literally all races. That's also somethign that you dont see much of out here, at least it seems that way to me. And I'm not talking about a white guy dating a Latina or an aisian girl....there is still a degree of "saftey" in that. I'm talking about the harsh visual differences between a white girl and a black boy, or vice versa. The stigma may be silent, but I beleive that it still very much exists.

Obviously, there is racism everywhere. There is prejudice everywhere. But it does seem to me at least, to be stronger here in the midwest than from where I am from.

Ted - I know Jesi does not look "black" to you.

And here's a question in all honesty...do I look "Mexican" to you?

probably not. I may look Italian. Or Middle Eastern. But seldom to do "white" people guess my ethnicity correctly, as my features are not "typical" of the stereotype. Even people of middle eastern decent guess wrong, often they have walked up to me and started conversations in their language only to discover that yes I am not white, but I am not one of "them"....... a Latin person however, can usually spot me right away, they recognize the castillian (Spanish as opposed to Indian) features, and likewise, normally I can spot a Latin right away......even if that Latin is a mutt.

But you see I "learned" as a child to do this....to seek out and recognize my own kind and to seperate myself this way because society would do it for me. In some minority cultures were taught this because were exactly that - minorities. That's why I knew Jesi was black.

And that's exactly why the others that she spoke of also knew she was black, because they too - had been taught - to recognize somone outside of their own - and to oppress that person who does not belong.

[BrassFusion]

That all sucks, Steven. The racial trait training, the stigma with interracial couples, all that... But do you agree with me that race relations have indeed gotten better and are continuing to do so with the current system, or do you think that something needs to be done to promote racial harmony?

[Steven]

That all sucks, Steven. The racial trait training, the stigma with interracial couples, all that... But do you agree with me that race relations have indeed gotten better and are continuing to do so with the current system, or do you think that something needs to be done to promote racial harmony?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I agree with you that things are getting better, with an added note that in order to truly make a long reaching change we need to redefine the value system of the generations to come. We need to teach our children something new, and add to that a healthy (healthy is the key word here) sense of burden for the racial division among us.

then, cross your fingers. Its still going to take a very long time.

[BrassFusion]

Healthy sense of burden??? It shouldn't BE a burden. Kids shouldn't be made to feel white guilt or be made to apologize for the shortcomings of previous generations. The reason racism exists is because people "teach" their kids about it and we shouldn't have to do anything special to correct their natural tendencies.

[Steven]

Healthy sense of burden??? It shouldn't BE a burden. Kids shouldn't be made to feel white guilt or be made to apologize for the shortcomings of previous generations. The reason racism exists is because people "teach" their kids about it and we shouldn't have to do anything special to correct their natural tendencies.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

the problem is that "the problem" grows legs of its own and compounds over time.

simply letting nature take it's course will take us that much longer to overcome that which has been set in motion for hundreds of years. In terms of burden I dont advocate any form of guilt. But I am talking about personal involvement if and when something present itself. Remember too that by and large - we teach our childrten in general to blame - to assign euphamisms - to click off socially - to seperate from one another. In fact we live in a society with more technological advantages and yet less social connection than ever before. All of these thigns will fold into the recipe of letting nature take its course.

I talk about the same thing - a healthy sense of burden - to my subordinates in the field. What I mean by that is that I want them to care about the company they represent - I want them to understand that every one of them plays a critical role in the companie's ability to remain healthy during trying times. I'm simply saying "hey....give a shit....this DOES affect you too".