Spin-off from Steve of Chance's thread

[Paper Hearts]

I noticed a few people said that they believe that there is a god without elaborating at all on the other thread. What I'm wondering is--assuming that there is a general god out there...not the Christian God, but just a general sort of reality master, out there...on whatever level...do you feel...

1. that it will bring you special favor from this "god" to simply say you believe, without ever actually knowing? In other words, what is belief literally worth compared to actual knowledge?

2. Also, do you think that people should be held responsible for what they believe in and do not believe in? That is to say, if someone learns all they can about said "God" from religeous manuals & other people...never actually has proof of "God's" existance but learns all they can, and the idea of God still does not seem plausable to them, is it really their fault? In other words, are our opinions completely subject to whatever situations "God" places us in? I mean a happy, kind person, who simply hasn't seen, touched or heard God, and so doesn't believe- In short, is misinterpreting reality a crime in and of itself?

[phee]

These are very good questions....

This is part of the reason why I am an agnostic... these questions have no answers that I can see evidense of...

To believers I guess I would try to come of as "a happy, kind person, who simply hasn't seen, touched or heard God, and so doesn't believe-"

But I never close myself to the possibility

[Paper Hearts]

These are very good questions....

This is part of the reason why I am an agnostic... these questions have no answers that I can see evidense of...

To believers I guess I would try to come of as "a happy, kind person, who simply hasn't seen, touched or heard God, and so doesn't believe-"

But I never close myself to the possibility

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Yeah, well my thing is...when I went to answer Steve's question...I sort of felt a fear to type 'I am an atheist' rather than 'I do not think there is a god.' And I was just thinking about that fear. Like what offense does it mean to a god...an actual god who is all-knowing, all-seeing, to say that you are an atheist, when you actually are, for all intents and purposes, an atheist? I'm not talking about someone who purposefully denys the truth, I'm talking about someone who just comes to a differnt conclusion-

[Guest Game of Chance]

Yeah, well my thing is...when I went to answer Steve's question...I sort of felt a fear to type 'I am an atheist' rather than 'I do not think there is a god.' And I was just thinking about that fear. Like what offense does it mean to a god...an actual god who is all-knowing, all-seeing, to say that you are an atheist, when you actually are, for all intents and purposes, an atheist? I'm not talking about someone who purposefully denys the truth, I'm talking about someone who just comes to a differnt conclusion-

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Not to threadjack...but I'm suddenly reminded of the band eyehategod.

I guess a better way to have put the question would have been...what is your concept of the Universe? How do you think it works?

Perhaps I'll make a new topic.

[Paper Hearts]

Not to threadjack...but I'm suddenly reminded of the band eyehategod.

I guess a better way to have put the question would have been...what is your concept of the Universe?  How do you think it works?

Perhaps I'll make a new topic.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

No, I think it was a good topic. I just felt like I'd be jacking your thread to ask these questions there.

[Steven]

I noticed a few people said that they believe that there is a god without elaborating at all on the other thread. What I'm wondering is--assuming that there is a general god out there...not the Christian God, but just a general sort of reality master, out there...on whatever level...do you feel...

1. that it will bring you special favor from this "god" to simply say you believe, without ever actually    knowing? In other words, what is belief literally worth compared to actual knowledge?

2. Also, do you think that people should be held responsible for what they believe in and do not believe in? That is to say, if someone learns all they can about said "God" from religeous manuals & other people...never actually has proof of "God's" existance but learns all they can, and the idea of God still does not seem plausable to them, is it really their fault? In other words, are our opinions completely subject to whatever situations "God" places us in? I mean a happy, kind person, who simply hasn't seen, touched or heard God, and so doesn't believe- In short, is misinterpreting reality a crime in and of itself?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Great Questions. I like how your skull puts things togethor. Anyway....

1) I know some people. ANd some people I know extremely well because I've put in the time and risk to do so. One relationship pays off deeply. The other is not somethign to be counted on. I beleive person a exists. So what? i beleive many things about person B, because I searched it out. Very similar is my approach to my "knowledge" if you will, of God.

2) I beleive you should be held responsible for what you KNOW. If you dont know, you dont know. Hence the provision of Grace. I dont really buy into the theory that people who dont "get it" go to a burning gehenna.

[Paper Hearts]

Great Questions.  I like how your skull puts things togethor.  Anyway....

1)  I know some people.  ANd some people I know extremely well because I've put in the time and risk to do so.  One relationship pays off deeply.  The other is not somethign to be counted on.  I beleive person a exists.  So what?  i beleive many things about person B, because I searched it out.  Very similar is my approach to my "knowledge" if you will, of God.

2) I beleive you should be held responsible for what you KNOW.  If you dont know, you dont know.  Hence the provision of Grace.  I dont really buy into the theory that people who dont "get it" go to a burning gehenna.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Thanks for answering that Steven. I respect you and I respect your religeon a lot.

I honestly didn't think that I'd get anyone religeous to ponder it. I thought I'd just have a bunch of agnostics, saying yeah, I wonder about that myself.

I suppose what I feel...because to me, if there is a god, I just sort of think of a general kind of god like I described above...is that I don't know a single person on Earth that thinks that way and it just seems like a very foriegn kind of wisdom...and then I wonder if I'm missing the point somewhere.

[BrassFusion]

i'm glad steven doesn't think I'm going to hell. Will we get to have keggers in heaven?

[BillyDeath]

i'm glad steven doesn't think I'm going to hell. Will we get to have keggers in heaven?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

will they have the mivie Sling Blade?

[BrassFusion]

will they have the mivie Sling Blade?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

FUCK YOU AND YOUR GODDAMN SLING BLADE

[Scary Guy]

i'm glad steven doesn't think I'm going to hell. Will we get to have keggers in heaven?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

"In heaven there is no beer.

That's why we drink it here,

and when we're gone from here

all our friends will be drinkin' all the beer"

[Paper Hearts]

3. In the presence of God, Is following a logic that you do not truely understand useless? Would a god know that you've not really agreement or understanding but merely a fear? Is fear worth something?

4. If it happened, and you couldn't agree, what importance is self-respect of to a god? What responsibility do we hold to ourselves and does it go beyond self-preservation?

5. Assuming God put you here of his own accord, and that existance is completely God's blame, are the laws of God really your concern? Is your life your fault, or is it God's fault?

[The_Dark]

I saw God last night, it was cool.

[Paper Hearts]

6. Are we obligated to follow God simply because God loves us? Basically, is it alright to tell God to Fuck off with his love?

[Paper Hearts]

I saw God last night, it was cool.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

God hates your trees, mate. If I were you I'd get out of there; he could come back for the rest of them.

[kellygrrrrrl]

I noticed a few people said that they believe that there is a god without elaborating at all on the other thread. What I'm wondering is--assuming that there is a general god out there...not the Christian God, but just a general sort of reality master, out there...on whatever level...do you feel...

1. that it will bring you special favor from this "god" to simply say you believe, without ever actually    knowing? In other words, what is belief literally worth compared to actual knowledge?

I do not think that simply believing is good enough.

I do not think it will get me anywhere.

I think actions and understanding of Gods will is more important than just believing.

2. Also, do you think that people should be held responsible for what they believe in and do not believe in? That is to say, if someone learns all they can about said "God" from religeous manuals & other people...never actually has proof of "God's" existance but learns all they can, and the idea of God still does not seem plausable to them, is it really their fault? In other words, are our opinions completely subject to whatever situations "God" places us in? I mean a happy, kind person, who simply hasn't seen, touched or heard God, and so doesn't believe- In short, is misinterpreting reality a crime in and of itself?

This is where religion turned me off.

I got into self study if you will, years ago.

I had a hard time because The Catholics said that Judeism was wrong, The Jewish said the Catholics are wrong, the Jehova's Witenesses said all of them were wrong, the Catholics said that Jehovah's Witnesses are a cult, but then they said that anything other than them is a cult, and so I went off to seek something that is NOT within my family.  Basically what I learned is that either way I'm fucked.  Cause they all say if its the wrong religion and false worship then I am doing a disservice to GOD...and basically if I worship a flse god, than that is a sin in itself.

SO Do I worship ?

Catholics say God is Jesus.  The Witness's say that Jesus is not god, that Jesus is his son and that we worship Jehovah.

The Jewish believe in Jehovah and recognize Jehovah as being God, but that Jesus never came.

So I have no idea what to believe.

someone tell me?

I just belive there is God.

I belive there is  a jehovah.

I belive there was a Jesus.

But to whom do I pay respects to?

Not quite sure.

I learned different religions.  All very different.

They ALL say thiers is right and everyoe else is wrong.

So Who's right?

I don't know.

I don't think these small details really make a difference.  But if I am wrong, I go to hell...so.

I believe.  I don't think that gets me too far though,

I think maybe living a clean life and Making LOVE number one, and praying and acknowledging there is a GOD is not bad....but I have been taugt there is much more than just belief. 

Personally,

I know I know what I have to do.

I just cannot commit myself.

I am not a very disciplined person.  Nor have I ever been.  I usually don't do what I say I will.  I can't do that to GOD. I can't make promises that I know I might not be able to keep 5 years from now. 10 years from now.

So Why should I make promises I can't keep.

I don't know what GOD has in store for the "Mis-interpreted"....

I definately feel misinformed, and undereducated on this subject. 

Does GOD forgive that? 

I don't know.

Am I a complete moron here?  I feel like it.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

[Guest Game of Chance]

Here are my thoughts:

Through my yoga and meditative practices over the years, I'm quite certain that there is something. Whether its an actual physical entity or perhaps just an unused portion of my brain (as referenced in Julian Jaynes' "The Origin of Conciousness in the Breakdown of the Bicameral Mind")...I'm not sure.

Could be "God" or the "Devil". I don't really care.

I know it feels good and while I haven't done as much kundalini yoga these last few years, I certainly am aware of its presence.

However, for me to sit here and explain away whatever "spiritual" experiences that I've had would be more that foolish. I'm only certain of the experience.

[Paper Hearts]

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I don't actually believe there is a god. I allow for the possibility, but I'm just like...if it's any of the gods that I've heard people make claims on, I just can't be bothered to care...I'm not really concerned with punishment and I simply do not feel like worshiping...frankly it's a bit boring to me, and so I'd rather receive eternity in peril than submit. And if god is a yet to be described god, then it can't possibly matter.

[Steven]

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I loved this post from kelly - loved its blunt honesty.

No your not a moron, far from it.

I wont go into it here publically - but I'd be happy to PM discuss or lunch discuss the concerns you've gathered over the years from your studies. Including the JW angle.

And I think your much closer to the thruth than you realize. nor are you really lost.

Steven

[Steven]

I don't actually believe there is a god. I allow for the possibility, but I'm just like...if it's any of the gods that I've heard people make claims on, I just can't be bothered to care...I'm not really concerned with punishment and I simply do not feel like worshiping...frankly it's a bit boring to me, and so I'd rather receive eternity in peril than submit. And if god is a yet to be described god, then it can't possibly matter.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I think that perhaps we might want to threadjack a bit and go a bit deeper into our individual beleifs on what "worship" actually is, and is not. Could be interesting.

Same thing goes for words like "Holy" - what is it - what aint it?

the word "worship" was a MAJOR hangup for me prior to my conversion, it literally made my flesh crawl.

[Hellion]

God hates your trees, mate. If I were you I'd get out of there; he could come back for the rest of them.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Where do you think cancer came from.

[Steven]

Where do you think cancer came from.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

cigarettes

[BrassFusion]

cigarettes

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

My DOG has cancer, dude.

[Steven]

My DOG has cancer, dude.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

stop letting him smoke. Jeezuz.

[BrassFusion]

stop letting him smoke.  Jeezuz.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

good one, i set you up and you spiked it

but seriously, god made cancer and you know it or you at least think you know it.