I'm confused!

[Vater Araignee]

Exactly what are the prerequisites for the goth sound?

Are there any?

I can't seem to nail something down.

Does the singer/band have to say that they are goth?

Does one or more individuals have to go "Hey they are goth!"

What what what is it?

[Jarodaka]

Source

Early English Goth rock follows a standard hard rock lineup, but often adds synthesizers, or at least guitar effects that sound like synths. The front person strategy varies, because the music is more introspective than high energy hard rock:

    * Singer/front-person

    * Guitar player

    * Bass player

    * Drummer

    * Synth player

Goth rock is at its most basic level a combination of punk rock and New Wave. Between 1979-1985 it was variously known as post-punk, alternative and new wave.

Contemporary Goth music is generally sequenced, making heavy use of FM & digital synthesizers. It is characterized by a crisp snare drum sample and a heavy bass drum sample. The auto-arpeggiate feature of modern synthesizers is used in often complex sounding multiple simultaneous arpeggiations. Vocals tend to be either spooky or lovelorn.

Lyrics are generally very poetic in nature, and follow melodies in the instrumentation of the song.

Guitar settings are the most notable influence to the overall musical style. Single coil pickups are important to achieve the correct sound, Fender Jazzmasters, Jaguars, & Mustangs fit the bill nicely. The guitar sound before processing ranges from clean, to warm overdrive with gain settings at approx 50%. Dynamics to this can include just turning all amp knobs to the right for chaotic amp-driven sounds found in some Bauhaus & Siouxsie material. For the most part, the combination of the following effects will give you this sound:

    * Chorus

    * Flange

    * Analog Delay, occasional usage of tape delay, as well.

    * Reverb from 0-75%

Bass is very warm and round sounding, and often uses chorus and/or flange effects.

Drums tend to be played by a human with an electronic kit, BPM ranges are from 80-150.

Synths usually have the above listed guitar attributes, and are generally based on a 'Strings' type of synth patch with a 25% attack rate. Invariably the synths are analog.

    * Song composition utilizes the 1-4-5 scalular progressions that typify rock & roll music, but are often augmented or diminished.

    * Minor key themes are prevalent, but major keys are not shunned.

    * Composition is usually guitar oriented, and follows surf music-like vertical scales, rather than blues-like horizontal scales.

    * Focal points are often on the two semitonal increments of the particular scale.

    * Various octave fingerings are often substituted for chords.

    * Playing style is generally all downstrokes, to create the 'sound'.

This type of gothic rock requires a fairly capable musician, as it will often include modal scales in song construction. Additionally, finger picking & up/down arpeggiation of chords will be found in many verse parts.

Overall song construction is similar to Hard rock

    * 1. an intro

    * 2. verse

    * 3. chorus

    * 4. solo

    * 5. chorus

    * 6. verse

    * 7. chorus

    * 8. an ending

There is much room for variation, and repetition of verses & choruses.

[Scary Guy]

Goth music to me.... there are several catagories of goth music. I have a few directories of it sorted from gothic, gothic rock, and gothic punk.

Gothic rock consists of bands like HIM, Type O, Paradise Lost, Lacuna Coil.

Gothic punk has Siouxie and the Banshies, Bauhaus, Joy Division, 45 Grave, The Misfits, The Cramps, The Virgin Prunes, etc...

Gothic is the generic stuff that doesn't fit anywhere else, and true gothic music to me would be The Sisters of Mercy, Clan of Xymox, Wench, Gothica, Inkubus Sukkubus, Voltaire, Possie Noir, Nosforatu, The Mission (UK), Fields of the Nephelm, etc...

Then there are the ones I don't really have directories for but don't fit anywhere else.

Jill Tracy I heard on the first version of DGN Radio when Troy asked me to beta test it. I've since grown to love her work and think it's the best (and only) gothic jazz/lounge I've ever heard.

Industrial is its own beast but it counts as a lot of it is dark and tons of goths listen to it as well.

Gothabilly and gothic country like Ghoultown. The Coffinshakers, The Necromantix, 16 Horsepower.

Then you could say classical and chamber music to a degree.

Oh I almost forgot, Trip Hop (to a degree), some ethereal, Synthpop, and EBM/darker techno.

[Vater Araignee]

So in short 95% of what ever I pick up has been miscatigorised?

That would also imply that at least 65% of Billy Idol is "GOTH" *smirk* I know there was a reason I classify him as a god.

[LuluVox]

Whoa. Points to Scary Guy for mentioning 16 Horsepower.

[Scary Guy]

So in short 95% of what ever I pick up has been miscatigorised?

That would also imply that at least 65% of Billy Idol is "GOTH" *smirk* I know there was a reason I classify him as a god.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

"Eyes Without a Face" is fairly creepy if you think about it the right way.

Whoa. Points to Scary Guy for mentioning 16 Horsepower.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Well I don't call myself a cowgoth for nothing Or a gothick (my term)

[JaneDead]

{my reply has nothing to do with this post at all but- i love billy idol. love eyes without a face. my wedding party danced to it at my wedding.

that and peter gabriel's in your eyes. my wedding party was that big we needed to dance to 2 songs for everyone to be introduced. i have no idea why i had two songs with "eyes" in the title. kinda weird i guess.}

sorry- now back to the original point of this topic.........

[Scary Guy]

{my reply has nothing to do with this post at all but- i love billy idol. love eyes without a face. my wedding party danced to it at my wedding.

that and peter gabriel's in your eyes. my wedding party was that big we needed to dance to 2 songs for everyone to be introduced. i have no idea why i had two songs with "eyes" in the title. kinda weird i guess.}

sorry- now back to the original point of this topic.........

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I would like to add Lita Ford & Ozzy Osbourn's "Close my Eyes Forever".

Come on it's the most gothic hair metal love balad I've ever heard.

NOW back on topic (sorry I love that song, I had to add it).

[Fierce Critter]

Interesting. I actually read the Wikipedia entry. Surprised someone took the time to break it down that finely. Thought it might help me with the following, but it really didn't - much.

All these different sounds - EBM, Goth, etc - all blur the lines so much I am having trouble comprehending what is and isn't "officially" goth. I can understand what makes folk folk, and same goes for rock, pop, country, etc. But the "sounds" of goth have been broken down into so many different categories, I cannot distinguish one group as being one and not the other, etc. At least most the the time.

I don't know if it's because the stuff I am able to differentiate has been around & labeled for many years, and these goth-related categories are relatively new. But I really can't for the life of me distinguish most "Oontz" from "EBM" and etc.

[Vater Araignee]

I'm thinking that as a whole if you think it sounds gothy then its Goth.

perception is 99% of reality.

Besides isn't it fun to debate?

I can personally attest to Pete Steele's quote "We are not Goth" yet most of the noegothic community and a TON (pun intended) of the norm community would say "you don't look it but yes you are" so by the laws of reality they are but they are not!

keeping this confusion in mind I am not in search of what I perceive to be the quintessential goth band " I.E. every song they play makes me say hey that's goth" and when I find it most will argue with me

[Troy Spiral (13)]

Also its generaly up to the scene to decide "what is goth" rather than the band themselves. Many, many bands are scared shitless of getting the label of "goth" and will avoid any and all suggestions that they might be goth. Hell even DJs that play goth music, and have made their name via "the scene" often are scared of the word "goth" and avoid it like the plauge.

[Scary Guy]

To define what goth music is first one must define what goth in it's self is, and thats not happening any time soon.

I like my definition and wish more people would adopt it because it makes f*ing sence.

[Fierce Critter]

Why are bands so afraid of the goth label? (And for that matter, why can't I ever remember if it's -le or -el?)

Is it because goth isn't played mainstream, and therefore if a band is labled as such, they can't expect to make the $$?

[Troy Spiral (13)]

There's a negative stigma attached to "Goth" moreso than other genres, many people are not comfortable with anyone thinking of them as "Goth".... that is, the negative , public image of what a Goth-kid is: a possibly homosexual, wimpy, crybaby, thinks they are better than everyone else, type person that is constantly wearing white face markup and bitching about how horrible their life is 24/7. (the stereotype they are afraid of being attached to)

And from a $$$ point, yes,, potentially, (especially bands that haven't "made it" yet) are afraid that they will be labeled "a Goth band" and as such, its assumed that they wont be taken seriously by the more mainstream promoters/music press/music scene in general. Yet, at the same time they often trade and have made their name on Goth iconography / themes /mood but will fight against that being pointed out for fear of the above concerns. When asked though, generally they will come up with some elaborate, moal-sounding "omg we are so much more than THAT!.. how dare u!" rather than just fess up to the above.

[JaneDead]

I would like to add Lita Ford & Ozzy Osbourn's "Close my Eyes Forever".

Come on it's the most gothic hair metal love balad I've ever heard.

NOW back on topic (sorry I love that song, I had to add it).

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

i love that song too i always had a hard time thinking of this one as a real hair metal love balad myself -- though i guess it really is.