Missionary Religions

[phee]

After reading several of the threads in this forum, I am remembering a lot of the education I have had abou theology over the years.

One of the biggest differences that I have seen between religions is there intentions towards others, specifically when it comes to others spirituality.

The two largest western religions in the world are at the moment Islam (fastest growing) and Christianity (largest worldwide) One of the biggest things that these religions have in common is that they are both Missionary Religions, in otherwords they, by nature are out to convert others to there belief system as they believe that other types of spirituality/religion is incorrect/wrong, and that is there mission. Now different people within these religions have different ways of accomplishing these goals of course. Some go door to door, some scream "infidel!" and try to kill people.

What is different about these religions as apposed to say Hindi, or Native American Spirituality (to over generalize) is that these two examples are not concerned with getting converts. They have there own spirituality which is theirs and theirs alone. If you were to talk to say a Pueblo Native American about a Lakota Native American and say: "You know, those Lakota's are saying the Gods that made the Earth are from the sky, as opposed to you Peublo people who say that the Earth was created by sister Earth Goddesses" He/She would probably respond: "That makes sense, they have a lot more sky where they are from, and we live in houses made of the earth..." there would be no conflict, there would be no saying "We are right and they are wrong"

I believe that missionary religions that dictate such things can cause a lot of violence, self rightiousness, and pain. Even those who belong to a missionary religion who may "respect" or "tolerate" other spiritual points of view, by the very nature of their core beliefs, believe that the other people are WRONG.

If you are a Christian, you cannot think that someone who worships their ancestors or say animal dieties is correct. If you are a Muslim and you are talking to a Hindi who is doing rituals to Vishnu, no matter how much respect you have for the person, they are still INCORRECT by the docturn that is being followed.

Just curious as to how you lovely people think of these ideas, and how you think it comes into play when discussing spirituality

[Msterbeau]

I'm Unitarian... One of the reasons I belong to that community is that tolerance for differing views. So, I agree with you completely.

[Scary Guy]

I'm atheist (or my own special branch)

Convert or die infidel scum.

[phee]

I'm atheist (or my own special branch)

Convert or die infidels.

As an athiest... why would you care if others are athiests like you or not?

[BrassFusion]

I'm a secular agnostic and I believe that our country would be a better place if there were more of me. =) so i can see where scary's coming from, though maybe i'm not as adamant as he is...

[Scary Guy]

Really I'm just a millitant agnostic. But I hate religion, I hate organized religion, and I hate people who are zealots to the point of retardation for their "cause" when they don't really know a damn thing more than the next guy.

[phee]

I'm a secular agnostic and I believe that our country would be a better place if there were more of me. =) so i can see where scary's coming from, though maybe i'm not as adamant as he is...

So you are a Missionary Agnostic then.... you have a mission to make more agnostics because you think the world would be better with more agnostics?

[BrassFusion]

So you are a Missionary Agnostic then.... you have a mission to make more agnostics because you think the world would be better with more agnostics?

Not a missionary agnostic- a missionary secularist.

I don't care what people believe as long as they try to be objective when it comes to real life situations and not try to legislate their beliefs on others.

So I guess I'm a missionary against what you described as missionaries. Um.

[phee]

Not a missionary agnostic- a missionary secularist.

I don't care what people believe as long as they try to be objective when it comes to real life situations and not try to legislate their beliefs on others.

So I guess I'm a missionary against what you described as missionaries. Um.

Either way you have a goal (so to speak) to try to make others think more like you... and in this case to get them to think of the world more secularly (or less religiously/spiritually)?

[BrassFusion]

I don't care if they believe in fairy stories as long as they agree that current research and public opinion must be given more creedence than their fairy stories.

[phee]

I don't care if they believe in fairy stories as long as they agree that current research and public opinion must be given more creedence than their fairy stories.

So it's not so much what they believe... but how they believe that you would like to change?

[BrassFusion]

How they enforce their beliefs on others...

[phee]

How they enforce their beliefs on others...

Gotcha... so you sort of enforce the belief that others shouldn't enfource their beliefs...

[HipsterDufus]

I wouldn't mind it if there were more people like me, but I hate any sort of proselytizing. What I do believe in is having open discussions about beliefs with other people. There needs to be more of that in the world.

And yes, I do agree that proselytizing is a cause for much of the grief in the world. Whenever a person closes themselves off to any other worldview, not even trying to walk in other people's shoes, people tend to become resentful and angry. When that same person takes it to the next step and tries to convert those around him, the results can be even worse.

One of the things that I always wondered is this: if someone's one true God is so powerful, why does he need human subjects to go out and convert others to do his bidding? That just doesn't jive for me. I can't imagine a true, sentient God caring one lick about whether or not people believing in him. Otherwise, wouldn't he/it just have an insecurity complex? By the way, these last two questions I've brought up are just supposed to be kind of tongue-in-cheek. But still, I think that when you have all of these different religions trying to convert each other, it seems kind of ridiculous. To have such a narrow belief that only your way is the right way is what has led to things like the Crusades, 9/11, etc.

[phee]

I wouldn't mind it if there were more people like me, but I hate any sort of proselytizing. What I do believe in is having open discussions about beliefs with other people. There needs to be more of that in the world.

And yes, I do agree that proselytizing is a cause for much of the grief in the world. Whenever a person closes themselves off to any other worldview, not even trying to walk in other people's shoes, people tend to become resentful and angry. When that same person takes it to the next step and tries to convert those around him, the results can be even worse.

One of the things that I always wondered is this: if someone's one true God is so powerful, why does he need human subjects to go out and convert others to do his bidding? That just doesn't jive for me. I can't imagine a true, sentient God caring one lick about whether or not people believing in him. Otherwise, wouldn't he/it just have an insecurity complex? By the way, these last two questions I've brought up are just supposed to be kind of tongue-in-cheek. But still, I think that when you have all of these different religions trying to convert each other, it seems kind of ridiculous. To have such a narrow belief that only your way is the right way is what has led to things like the Crusades, 9/11, etc.

Well stated

[BrassFusion]

Gotcha... so you sort of enforce the belief that others shouldn't enfource their beliefs...

Yes.

[phee]

Yes.

Okay....

Good discussion

[kellygrrrrrl]

:whistling bloo snuh buh :whistling

Alright, I'll stop now! :blushing :whistling :ninja:

ABUSING the smiles in a serious topic...I love it!

Oh Abusing smiles here:------>

Oh, and.......................JACK!

[Guest Game of Chance]

Missionary is ok, but I like doggy. (hit it from the back) :whistling

[Gaf The Horse With Tears]

If said missionary is respectful of your religion and never trys to convert you, what is the problem with them believing you to be wrong?

[BrassFusion]

If said missionary is respectful of your religion and never trys to convert you, what is the problem with them believing you to be wrong?

I think phee means "missionary religions" as in christianity and islam rather than individuals within those religions, who may or may not be missionary-esque. still, people who follow "missionary" religions but don't try to convert others are still expected to believe that their religion is the only true one. diverse ideas are discouraged and that breeds intolerance and sometimes violence. it happens in america just like it does in iran.

[phee]

If said missionary is respectful of your religion and never trys to convert you, what is the problem with them believing you to be wrong?

I believe that Brass said it pretty well... but to summerize

It effects the way that they treat you... regardless of whether or not they try to convert you

[Homicidalheathen]

I was a baptist when a teen and yes, I went door to door like a salesman, and hated it. Part of why I quit.

Since then I feel I have become more enlightened, I don't think any one path is wrong or right it is what works for you at the time. It is more about being spiritual. Not in what path you take. But to honor some force or presence outside of oneself to me shows a sign of intellegence as I cannot just believe this all (earth and her children) happened by chance.

[Gaf The Horse With Tears]

So, you think they should not think like that?

[Homicidalheathen]

Oh and btw, my brother still thinks I am damned because although saved, I am not a practicing christian.....and he does annoy everyone with his shpeals about it. He is really into it. They go to other countries and do help out here and there, he was rebuilding homes in the phillipeans for awhile but it was just a way for them to get their foot in the door to start preaching. Every week he would give me any update on how many 'lost souls' he had saved. I think they just wanted the free food and shelter, but whatever. Then there are the prisoners he will go to court with and try to tell the judge how they have changed and how spiritual they are now......I just hope he knows them that well for sure, I wonder if he is getting snowed sometimes in his prison missionary works.