Improved Religion Poll

[Troy Spiral (13)]

Im wondering how many would actually call themselves , by name, of a specific faith. I'm guessing thats the extreme minority. The more generalized roll-your-own religion ideas i think are on the rise (western-culture wide) and also on DGN.

Pretty cool idea for a poll.

Random factoid.. there is not one agnostic/atheist supreme court judge and over 50% are specifically roman catholic.

I was actually raised JW... im now undecided. Up until recently i read the bible nearly daily. (if you can belive that) *points to a soild dozen occult books, stuff on christianity, evolution, buddhism, atheism, deism, creationism/intelligent design... on and on* *Introduces you to his string of pagan/wiccan girlfriends* Conflict? heh

Forcing myself to actually pick one rather than nothing. Agnostic, while i think is totally possible to be the "right" answer i dont feel in can really "live by" the concept. Im too curious and/or i >want:laugh:

[Shade Everdark]

Atheist, plain and simple.

[Troy Spiral (13)]

Atheist, plain and simple.

Takes balls. I wouldn't consider myself an atheist but at least in my sphere of influence this would be a hard thing to admit openly without some serious social repercussions.

Crap my supressed alpha male tendencies are peeking out. *pushes down*

[Steven]

Im wondering how many would actually call themselves , by name, of a specific faith. I'm guessing thats the extreme minority. The more generalized roll-your-own religion ideas i think are on the rise (western-culture wide) and also on DGN.

Pretty cool idea for a poll.

Random factoid.. there is not one agnostic/atheist supreme court judge and over 50% are specifically roman catholic.

I was actually raised JW... im now undecided. Up until recently i read the bible nearly daily. (if you can belive that) *points to a soild dozen occult books, stuff on christianity, evolution, buddhism, atheism, deism, creationism/intelligent design... on and on* *Introduces you to his string of pagan/wiccan girlfriends* Conflict? heh

Forcing myself to actually pick one rather than nothing. Agnostic, while i think is totally possible to be the "right" answer i dont feel in can really "live by" the concept. Im too curious and/or i >want< there to be an answer. So that means... Er.. uh... buddhism .. no christian... er can i be an Atheist, Christian, Buddhist?

Im having trouble with my more recently found logic-centered view of the universe overlapping with my previous spirtually/faith centered view of the universe. I dont think they can peacefully coexist as many would claim and its a bit... unsettling. If there was an easy answer it wouldnt be debated by intelligent well meaning people for all of recorded history. Im also not quite sure its smart to just throw in the towel and grab a TV dinner.

I liked this post for obvious reasons.

and my library likewise, is pretty varied and remains so. my convictions however do not, at least not in the traditional sense. I am a non denominational christian, yet I wince saying even that - because it to reeks of a pole position among my peers within christendom. In the end I try to simply strip it down as much as possible. I am a Christian, because of Christ. To me that is both logical and intuitive.

I understand the conflict between the puritanical logic approach versus the faith centered approach. I also think this conflict may even be the handiwork of God, as ridiculous as that sounds.

In time I'm sure you'll choose Troy. or at least i hope you do.

By the way I too read the Bible daily - the New World translation, which I'm sure you know has had some pretty significant stretches of translation. But despite that, and even if I had been reading a "traditional" translation for years, it would not have led me to another direction. Despite all of those years of "reading" scripture - I did not truly "search" scripture on my own, for a glimpse of myself, until many years later. Thats when thigns started to change for me.

[Troy Spiral (13)]

I liked this post for obvious reasons.

and my library likewise, is pretty varied and remains so. my convictions however do not, at least not in the traditional sense. I am a non denominational christian, yet I wince saying even that - because it to reeks of a pole position among my peers within christendom. In the end I try to simply strip it down as much as possible. I am a Christian, because of Christ. To me that is both logical and intuitive.

I understand the conflict between the puritanical logic approach versus the faith centered approach. I also think this conflict may even be the handiwork of God, as ridiculous as that sounds.

In time I'm sure you'll choose Troy. or at least i hope you do.

By the way I too read the Bible daily - the New World translation, which I'm sure you know has had some pretty significant stretches of translation. But despite that, and even if I had been reading a "traditional" translation for years, it would not have led me to another direction. Despite all of those years of "reading" scripture - I did not truly "search" scripture on my own, for a glimpse of myself, until many years later. Thats when thigns started to change for me.

Omg someone actually reads the crap i spew out? Score. lol

NWT? Wow wasn't expecting that. I do think , with my admittedly only minor research into different translations (basically NIV,KJ.NWT and the NAB (the catholic bible)) NWT seems to be the most likely to be the most "acurate" representation of the various texts. Not that any of them differ too widely. Even the KJ which i really feel has some ... intentional misdirection in a few cases, do all have the same overall message.

I do have a bit of trouble with a generalized approach to christanity. I tend to be more of (when i'm inclinded to do so) be fairly literal in my interpretation of religious texts, as i feel if i get to "allegorical" then i can make them mean basically whatever i want to make the mean. But once you start doing that it gets... difficult to not see contradictions or things that just seem... well not right. The idea of a "moderate view of christianity" seems unrealistic to me. Either it IS or it IS NOT. "Well its sort of true and i generally buy into the general gist of it" seems somewhat er "illogical" to me the more research i do. There ARE some very uncomfortable positions given by the texts which dont jive well with our modern (very secularized) view of morality/ethics. Often whatever seems too far outside of our modern concept of morality , all the sudeen its no longer the actual word.. its "only a story not meant to be literal" very conveinently whenever something seems particularly harsh. If the ideas are too far out from what our average westerner feels is "fair" >so what<. i hate that either it is the word of god and we have to live by regardless if nice or not isnt.. right dangit just want final answer. heh uncertianty sucks.>

Thus my previous faith i think has slowly been sort of ... lets call it "educated away". Kind of irritating actually at times in a odd sort of way. Sometimes i wish i could put the genie back in the bottle on that subject. I used to know what "the answer" was, now i dont and am not sure if i ever will. GRRR.

Man what is up with me in the last few months, with all this deep soul searching BS. Somone give me a pizza please.

Thanks for that reply though. Was a refreshing bit of commentary to be honest.

[Head Wreck]

theres something in the works, i dont belive in a god or many gods, but there are things which we dont understand, and the world has an energy flow and rhythm to it that you can only feel if you look.

[sass_in_the_pants]

I'm a Catholic. I'm not a good one, mind you, I'm actually pretty terrible at it, but I do try. So, Catholic it is.

What can I say? I like the Friday fish fry.

[Steven]

Omg someone actually reads the crap i spew out? Score. lol

NWT? Wow wasn't expecting that. I do think , with my admittedly only minor research into different translations (basically NIV,KJ.NWT and the NAB (the catholic bible)) NWT seems to be the most likely to be the most "acurate" representation of the various texts. Not that any of them differ too widely. Even the KJ which i really feel has some ... intentional misdirection in a few cases, do all have the same overall message.

I do have a bit of trouble with a generalized approach to christanity. I tend to be more of (when i'm inclinded to do so) be fairly literal in my interpretation of religious texts, as i feel if i get to "allegorical" then i can make them mean basically whatever i want to make the mean. But once you start doing that it gets... difficult to not see contradictions or things that just seem... well not right. The idea of a "moderate view of christianity" seems unrealistic to me. Either it IS or it IS NOT. "Well its sort of true and i generally buy into the general gist of it" seems somewhat er "illogical" to me the more research i do. There ARE some very uncomfortable positions given by the texts which dont jive well with our modern (very secularized) view of morality/ethics. Often whatever seems too far outside of our modern concept of morality , all the sudeen its no longer the actual word.. its "only a story not meant to be literal" very conveinently whenever something seems particularly harsh. If the ideas are too far out from what our average westerner feels is "fair" >so what<. I hate that, either it is the word of god, and we have to live by it regardless if it 'sounds nice' or not, or it isnt.. right? Dangit i just want the final answer. Heh uncertianty sucks.

Thus my previous faith i think has slowly been sort of ... lets call it "educated away". Kind of irritating actually at times in a odd sort of way. Sometimes i wish i could put the genie back in the bottle on that subject. I used to know what "the answer" was, now i dont and am not sure if i ever will. GRRR.

Man what is up with me in the last few months, with all this deep soul searching BS. Somone give me a pizza please.

Thanks for that reply though. Was a refreshing bit of commentary to be honest.

chuckles....it's hard, aint it Brutha?

seperating literal for allegory, putting parabels in their proper context, searching for a reason to either accept or deny an absolute.....

again all of this I think is purely intentional.

I think that the Bible was created to divide as well as draw in. Its a tool, but it has certain power within its pages, I do beleive that.

in literally any sect of christianity or an offshoot sect like JW's - you will have those who take differeing approaches to knowing God - or knowing "of" God.

in between all of the credible arguments, and there are many - I personally, Steven - have to find God. Its a msut for me, like oxygen is a must for me. I have been given this world and all of its radical inconsistencies and decay to draw from foundationally. this is my toolbox. from it, I'm supposed to find God, and purpose, and truth????? is it even logical if Gid exists to set me here and then have expectations of me?

yes. for me at least, i can say yes. All of the written text, is to me at least - part of the divine effort for me to know God and trust him. that's it. Thats plenty. In my marriage Laura and I are strong as hell - because of what we've struggled thru and learned on the journey. And I love that about us. Likewise - my struggles in knowing God through all of the static, is the only thing that counts. I think the static is intentional. It has nothign to do with human logic and reasoning. And my personal walk with God has been filled with struggle and doubt, since day one. Over time, my doubts get thinner, my conclusions grow stronger. all of it is relational, and none of it can I prove or back up logically. Yet I remain an irrepressible force, anyone tha knows me personally knows that about me, and all of that "strength" if we shal call it that - comes from my struggles of chasing after God so that I can know him. Without the struggle, I'd have nothing. And so I see a certain genius in all of it. I suppose you can call that ..my "education".....and all of has relevance to this life I lead in 2006.

you'll have to find your way Troy. Like I do. as for the whole JW thing - I probably should not make my suppositions about them public (see dude? I'm learning). But If you ever would like to know what I think about them and why - including their written works and the after effects on young minds, shoot me a PM.

I will share this much with you though Troy...having been raised a JW - it made it extremely difficult for me to trust ANY source, or to explore and place myself within the concept and provision of grace, and it made my pursuit of general understanding a personal war instead of a quest. I dont know your personal expereinces. But I remeber "Jehovah of Armies" and "New Light" quite well. And remember too, that this comes from a kid who grew up in the late 60's early 70's within the faith.

[kellygrrrrrl]

We should get together the 3 of us sometime.

I feel like I am right there with you guys....

Steven, Troy....

[Steven]

We should get together the 3 of us sometime.

I feel like I am right there with you guys....

Steven, Troy....

that would be nice, I'd like that.

[Troy Spiral (13)]

chuckles....it's hard, aint it Brutha?

seperating literal for allegory, putting parabels in their proper context, searching for a reason to either accept or deny an absolute.....

I think somewhere along the line i got it into my head that "logic" was the measure of all things, and by that measure there are some things about "god" that i just cant seem to ... for lack of a better term.. compute. I WANT them to compute, i want there to be something other than just what i can see. I just seem to come up with more arguments for a mundane universe than a spiritual one.

At the moment i'm sort of struggling emotionally with some unrelated things so ill probably just have to shut up. Theres much more to be said and i totally appreciate your comments.

We should get together the 3 of us sometime.

I feel like I am right there with you guys....

Steven, Troy....

Regardless if you meant it this way or not, this cheered me up a bit. Sometimes i think i'm just talking at the air and no one is hearing me.

Personally i'm sort of camped out in my hidey-hole due to health issues but we should, at some point. =)

[ManicQueen]

Agnostic/Atheist

Definition of Agnostic:

Agnosticism is a concept, not a religion. It is a belief related to the existence or non-existence of God.

An agnostic is a person who feels that God's existence can neither be proved nor disproved, on the basis of current evidence. Agnostics note that some theologians and philosophers have tried to to prove, for millennia, that God exists. Others have attempted to prove that God does not exist. Agnostics feel that neither side has convincingly succeeded at their task.

Are they Theists? No, because Agnostics do not believe in a God, or a Goddess, or in multiple Gods, or multiple Goddesses or in a pantheon of Gods and Goddesses.

However, some Agnostics consider themselves to be Atheists. That is because the term "Atheist" has two slightly different meanings:

A person who positively believes that no God(s) or Goddess(es) exists. E. Haldeman-Julius suggests that "The atheist perceives that history, in every branch of science, in the plainly observable realities of life and in the processes of common sense there is no place for the picture of a God; the idea doesn't fit in with a calmly reasoned and realistic view of life. The atheist, therefore denies the assumptions of theism because they are mere assumptions and are not proved; whereas the contrary evidences, against the idea of theism, are overwhelming." 1 This is the definition of Atheism used by most Christians, other Theists, and dictionaries of the English language.

A person who has no belief in a God or Goddess. Just as a newborn has no concept of a deity, some adults also have no such belief. The term "Atheist" is derived from the Greek words "a" which means "without" and "Theos" which means "God." A person can be a non-Theist by simply lacking a belief in God without actively denying God's existence. This is the definition of Atheism used by many Atheists. They use the term "strong Atheist" to refer to a person who denies the existence of one or more deities.

Some Agnostics feel that their beliefs match the second definition, and thus consider themselves to be both Atheist and an Agnostic. Such confusion is common in the field of religion. We have found 17 definitions for the term "Witch," eight for "cult," and six for the "Pagan." -- all different. A lack of clear, unambiguous definitions for religious terms is responsible for a great deal of confusion and hatred. It makes dialog between Agnostics and Theists very difficult.

An agnostic usually holds the question of the existence of God open, pending the arrival of more evidence. They are willing to change their belief if some solid evidence or logical proof is found in the future. However, some have taken the position that there is no logical way in which the existence or the non-existence of a deity can be proven.

Like the definition said.. I need straight up proof.

[phee]

Agnostic/Atheist

Definition of Agnostic:

Agnosticism is a concept, not a religion. It is a belief related to the existence or non-existence of God.

An agnostic is a person who feels that God's existence can neither be proved nor disproved, on the basis of current evidence. Agnostics note that some theologians and philosophers have tried to to prove, for millennia, that God exists. Others have attempted to prove that God does not exist. Agnostics feel that neither side has convincingly succeeded at their task.

Are they Theists? No, because Agnostics do not believe in a God, or a Goddess, or in multiple Gods, or multiple Goddesses or in a pantheon of Gods and Goddesses.

However, some Agnostics consider themselves to be Atheists. That is because the term "Atheist" has two slightly different meanings:

A person who positively believes that no God(s) or Goddess(es) exists. E. Haldeman-Julius suggests that "The atheist perceives that history, in every branch of science, in the plainly observable realities of life and in the processes of common sense there is no place for the picture of a God; the idea doesn't fit in with a calmly reasoned and realistic view of life. The atheist, therefore denies the assumptions of theism because they are mere assumptions and are not proved; whereas the contrary evidences, against the idea of theism, are overwhelming." 1 This is the definition of Atheism used by most Christians, other Theists, and dictionaries of the English language.

A person who has no belief in a God or Goddess. Just as a newborn has no concept of a deity, some adults also have no such belief. The term "Atheist" is derived from the Greek words "a" which means "without" and "Theos" which means "God." A person can be a non-Theist by simply lacking a belief in God without actively denying God's existence. This is the definition of Atheism used by many Atheists. They use the term "strong Atheist" to refer to a person who denies the existence of one or more deities.

Some Agnostics feel that their beliefs match the second definition, and thus consider themselves to be both Atheist and an Agnostic. Such confusion is common in the field of religion. We have found 17 definitions for the term "Witch," eight for "cult," and six for the "Pagan." -- all different. A lack of clear, unambiguous definitions for religious terms is responsible for a great deal of confusion and hatred. It makes dialog between Agnostics and Theists very difficult.

An agnostic usually holds the question of the existence of God open, pending the arrival of more evidence. They are willing to change their belief if some solid evidence or logical proof is found in the future. However, some have taken the position that there is no logical way in which the existence or the non-existence of a deity can be proven.

Like the definition said.. I need straight up proof.

That about sums it up for me.... I didn't realize there were so many other agnostics here!

[Steven]

I think somewhere along the line i got it into my head that "logic" was the measure of all things, and by that measure there are some things about "god" that i just cant seem to ... for lack of a better term.. compute. I WANT them to compute, i want there to be something other than just what i can see. I just seem to come up with more arguments for a mundane universe than a spiritual one.

At the moment i'm sort of struggling emotionally with some unrelated things so ill probably just have to shut up. Theres much more to be said and i totally appreciate your comments.

Regardless if you meant it this way or not, this cheered me up a bit. Sometimes i think i'm just talking at the air and no one is hearing me.

Personally i'm sort of camped out in my hidey-hole due to health issues but we should, at some point. =)

some things about "God" dont compute to me either bud.

And I want them to compute as well.

But it's just not that simple. And stragely enough in other tiems and in other circumstances it is exactly that simple, the alleged simplicity of it all.

and you are not talking at the air.

you have a great deal of depth and are obviously highly respected here.

and....you've shown me a few things.

I look forward to us all getting togethor sometime, but no pressure.

[DarkVampire]

Even though I answered Athiest, my belief, faith, what ever you want to call it lies in reincarnation. It's something I firmly believe in.

[phee]

Even though I answered Athiest, my belief, faith, what ever you want to call it lies in reincarnation. It's something I firmly believe in.

Then why did you answer Athiest?

[Paper Hearts]

I thought this was an improved religion poll. But these are the same fucking beliefs we've had for thousands of years. -Nothing improved.

[phee]

I thought this was an improved religion poll. But these are the same fucking beliefs we've had for thousands of years. -Nothing improved.

[TheVampireZoey]

i said other for that i fallow many path and way of life i take my spirtal being in to my own hands and see where it take me in the end i seen and learned to many thing to be just one religion i belive in many defent thing to be just one religion am i going to haven or hell who knows will see when and if it happen but till then i just be me and that all i can and will be

be well kiddies

Zoey