Dgn In Metro Times Detroit

[Frontier]

Hello everyone. My name is Johnny Loftus; I'm the music editor of the Metro Times here in Detroit. I'm writing an article about A Life Less Lived: The Gothic Box, the new three-disc, one-DVD box set from Rhino Records that purports to chronicle the foundations and favorites of goth music.

As you guys are the some of the most vocal goth/industrial fans in SE Michigan, I'm asking you: is the box totally cool or totally shit? Is it played-out, or really important? What do you think it says about goth/industrial's stance in contemporary pop culture? Does the box's release suggest that goth is being codified and re-sold, like most every other important musical genre of the late 20th century (hardcore, garage rock, 1st wave alternative, etc.)?

Here's a link with more info about the box set: Rhino Gothic Box

If you have an opinion, tell me, and I'll print some of your thoughts in a "roundtable" portion of the article I'm writing.

You can leave your comments in this thread, or email them to me at jloftus@metrotimes.com

Hurry--Roundable closes at Midnight Thursday.

Thanks a lot.

Johnny Loftus

Music Editor

Metro Times Detroit

Metro Times

[Homicidalheathen]

Its good if you don't already have allot of the cd's are new to the whole genre' and all. I have allot of these songs already and hate paying for the same song twice, I would rather go on Bear share than buy this sorry.

[Troy Spiral (13)]

In terms of "online SE michigan goth communties" this is the right place. If im permitted some pride, this is the most active scene community on the net.

I consider myself to be fairly well researched on the goth culture. I don't think you could ask for a more "authoritive" source than Mick Mercer.

A glaring ommision on that collection is I Walk The Line by Alien Sex Fiend but generally i think thats a very good general sampling of early goth.

And i'm not sure from that article what the full intent of the boxed set is, but that is, certianly >early

For hardcore oldschool goth fans, that set will be more of a keepsake. Most of us old fart goths probably already have the majority of the artists covered.

There are a large number of younger people that consider themselves "Goth" but are totally clueless about the era of goth covered by that set. I think it might be very infomrative for them and save a lot of time and money trying to track down all the stuff on there individually.

I might pick that set up myself , despite already having virtually everything on that list as it seems like a noble effort and looks like it has some interesting extras.

One thing i can say for it , even if i don't agree with all the specific track choices.... they did a very good job of actually getting the A-List artists on there.

I'll move this thread to the music section. More likely to get the types of responses your looking for there. Good luck with your piece. Let us know when its going to hit the stands so we can go have a look.

[Frontier]

Thanks for moving it, man. And you're right - these Rhino genre boxes usually do a decent job of covering the foundations of a genre. But they rarely if ever delve into the contemporary side of things - Rhino is, after all, a reissue label.

Do you think that a box set like this signals an acknowledgement by the mainstream of goth's influence on indie rock and other artists of today?

[LuluVox]

Thanks for moving it, man. And you're right - these Rhino genre boxes usually do a decent job of covering the foundations of a genre. But they rarely if ever delve into the contemporary side of things - Rhino is, after all, a reissue label.

Do you think that a box set like this signals an acknowledgement by the mainstream of goth's influence on indie rock and other artists of today?

I think the inclusion of an AFI cover of a Cure song does that.

But really, how hard would it have been to make it the Cure version?? Stupid AFI doesn't seem to really fit in with bands like Throbbing Gristle and the Birthday Party. *grumble*

ps) I remember you from AMG days; nice job moving on to music editor of Metro Times.

[Paper Hearts]

Thanks for moving it, man. And you're right - these Rhino genre boxes usually do a decent job of covering the foundations of a genre. But they rarely if ever delve into the contemporary side of things - Rhino is, after all, a reissue label.

Do you think that a box set like this signals an acknowledgement by the mainstream of goth's influence on indie rock and other artists of today?

I suppose that this is a fair enough compilation, because of the inclusions of covers by bands with very different philosophies and sounds than what was once what defined this type of rock in it's early stages; with these inclusions, the compilation acknowledges that when this music was new, it really had a different label all together and really wasn't popularly known as "goth" until successive music associated was given that title, and that this successive music was very different than the music which those seminal goth bands made, and actually, quite more alike in nature to what is popularly known as "goth" today.

-But would I buy this compilation CD set? Absolutely not, I wouldn't. I don't like Rhino Recs, I don't care to hear many of the bands included, particularly bands like AFI, I don't like CDs, and if I wanted a compilation, I'd make a playlist on my itunes.

[Frontier]

But would I buy this compilation CD set? Absolutely not, I wouldn't. I don't like Rhino Recs, I don't care to hear many of the bands included, particularly bands like AFI, I don't like CDs, and if I wanted a compilation, I'd make a playlist on my itunes.

That gets at what I often wonder about comps like this Rhino set - nowadays most people who want any of these tracks would be happy to get them digitally, because then it's possible to make a custom set, anyway.

I guess that's why Rhino's encased the whole thing in a fake leather corset, and included a booklet with essays like "How to Run a Proper Goth Night" and "The 'G' Word: Artists address the goth tag." A lot of people contribute to the latter, actually - Ogre, Peter Murphy, Daniel Ash, Robin Guthrie...

[Paper Hearts]

That gets at what I often wonder about comps like this Rhino set - nowadays most people who want any of these tracks would be happy to get them digitally, because then it's possible to make a custom set, anyway.

I guess that's why Rhino's encased the whole thing in a fake leather corset, and included a booklet with essays like "How to Run a Proper Goth Night" and "The 'G' Word: Artists address the goth tag." A lot of people contribute to the latter, actually - Ogre, Peter Murphy, Daniel Ash, Robin Guthrie...

(Plus) when you can by now go out and buy the original vinyl pressings for 3-4$ a record, for many of the most important tracks on those discs, why go out and pay (I would guess) $25 for this really tacky re packaging?

I start to think that this compilation is purely for the unbias rock historian and then remembering your description for the packaging that this appears in, recall that no historian would go near such a thing, but rather there are a lot of too naive youths. Basically, this compilation is a goth starter kit.

[LuluVox]

I kind of find it odd that the music on the comp is seemingly geared toward the roots of goth, but then the packaging is supposed to be a corset, which many would associate with more modern goth, being a symbol that didn't get firmly tied to the genre until relatively recently, certainly after the '80s. It should have come with a teeny leather jacket and wearing Andrew Eldritch sunglasses, and a pack of cloves.

[bav]

Hello everyone. My name is Johnny Loftus;

Howdy, Johnny.

I'm the music editor of the Metro Times here in Detroit. I'm writing an article about A Life Less Lived: The Gothic Box, the new three-disc, one-DVD box set from Rhino Records that purports to chronicle the foundations and favorites of goth music.

Oh dear God...is this yet another comp set featuring one of the 2 songs by Southern Death Cult and X-Mal Deutchland?

<checks>

Yup....

As you guys are the some of the most vocal goth/industrial fans in SE Michigan, I'm asking you:

Let's take this one at a time:

is the box totally cool or totally shit?

If you're fifteen, wish you had been 15 and tragic in the early 80s, and you find this at a shop in the mall? SCORE! Besides, AFI is on it too!

If you're pushing your 30's or older, odds are you have a copy or two of this when Cleopatra [the K-Tel of gawf] was putting it out as the Gothic Rock/Industrial Revolution comps.

Is it played-out, or really important?

It's pretty played out. A lot of these songs have been re-issued on various compilations multiple times over the last 10 years. But again, if you're a teen-ager right now and like post-punk music....

What do you think it says about goth/industrial's stance in contemporary pop culture?

I don't think it says anything about the importance or impact gothdustrial has had on pop culture.

Does the box's release suggest that goth is being codified and re-sold, like most every other important musical genre of the late 20th century (hardcore, garage rock, 1st wave alternative, etc.)?

Very much so. I think our society is very heavily into a nolstagia phase right now (and has been for a while) and that this is capitalizing on it. The idea that this is supposed to trace the foundations of the goth scene may be one thing, and it sort of does. The actualization of this, tho, is strikes me as more of a money-grab oriented towards one of two groups:

1) Old-school goths who've either had their houses burn down therefor losing their original albums/Cleopatra compilations or had to sell their music years ago to pay for their drug-habits.

2) The aforementioned teen-agers at the mall.

Given that we have AFI covering the Cure, Rubicon covering Fields of the Nephilim, and the Hot-Topic friendly packaging, I suspect the latter.

Do you think that a box set like this signals an acknowledgement by the mainstream of goth's influence on indie rock and other artists of today?

Possible, but I'm sort of doubting it. I'm really more of the thought that since Cleopatra started going the hip-hop route that Rhino is looking to pick up the slack with compilations and covers.

[Guest Game of Chance]

Bav really is my hero. I second all of the above.

[BrassFusion]

I'm not goth, but if I wished I was and I was a 16-year-old with daddy's credit card, I'd probably buy it.

[Paper Hearts]

I kind of find it odd that the music on the comp is seemingly geared toward the roots of goth, but then the packaging is supposed to be a corset, which many would associate with more modern goth, being a symbol that didn't get firmly tied to the genre until relatively recently, certainly after the '80s. It should have come with a teeny leather jacket and wearing Andrew Eldritch sunglasses, and a pack of cloves.

This is exactly what I'm reffering to when I say tacky packaging. No serious music historian, goth, or otherwise would be seen with it. It is a goth starter kit, but is a pretty good goth starter kit in that it is one which is pretty historically fair. And there's nothing wrong with starter kits and...If I were in the buisness Rhino is in, I'd probably want to create something like this compilation too...and well, if I had to do that, I'd probably come up with something with pretty close to the same tracks this one has. So it's also a well accomplished goth starter kit.

And just for you and I, I have recalled that the Smiths have foretold of yes, this as well:

At the record company meeting

On their hands - a dead star

And oh, the plans they weave

And oh, the sickening greed

At the record company party

On their hands - a dead star

The sycophantic slags all say :

"I knew him first, and I knew him well"

Re-issue ! Re-package ! Re-package !

Re-evaluate the songs

Double-pack with a photograph

Extra Track (and a tacky badge)

A-list, playlist

"Please them , please them !"

"Please them !"

(sadly, THIS was your life)

But you could have said no

If you'd wanted to

You could have said no

If you'd wanted to

BPI, MTV, BBC

"Please them ! Please them !"

(sadly this was your life)

But you could have said no

If you'd wanted to

You could have walked away

...Couldn't you ?

I touched you at the soundcheck

You had no real way of knowing

In my heart I begged "Take me with you ...

I don't care where you're going..."

But to you I was faceless

I was fawning, I was boring

Just a child from those ugly new houses

Who could never begin to know

Who could never really know

Oh ...

Best of ! Most of !

Satiate the need

Slip them into different sleeves !

Buy both, and feel deceived

Climber - new entry, re-entry

World tour ! ("media whore")

"Please the Press in Belgium !"

(THIS was your life...)

And when it fails to recoup ?

Well, maybe :

You just haven't earned it yet, baby

I walked a pace behind you at the soundcheck

You're just the same as I am

What makes most people feel happy

Leads us headlong into harm

So, in my bedroom in those 'ugly new houses'

I danced my legs down to the knees

But me and my 'true love'

Will never meet again ...

At the record company meeting

On their hands - at last ! - a dead star !

But they can never taint you in my eyes

No, they can never touch you now

No, they cannot hurt you, my darling

They cannot touch you now

But me and my 'true love'

Will never meet again

[sglgothmom]

You said it, I'm just agreeing with it.

For only being in the gothic scene for 7years and being a single mom for 6 I don't have the money for the c.d.'s hell i don't even own my own computer (this is my boyfriends) but this is something that i want to buy i am a huge music fan and so i'm looking forward to reading the books and listening to the c.d.s I heard about the blx set on 89X a couple of weeks and told my boyfriend i want it. So my question is how much is this gonna cost him??? and as for the packaging i think it was a cool idea as far as i'm concerned corsets became part of the gothic culture when betty paige was modeled and photographed in one. think about it... and even though the goth genre has grown but that doesn't mean when a bunch of goth's are gathered you don't see at least ten girls in corsets and occasionally a few boys. much like all box sets it's not gonna have everything on it think about artists these days and how many box sets they have aerosmith for example has like three. It just leaves room to make another box set. which the company will more than likely do if sales prove well for this one.

[LuluVox]

Honestly, though, AFI has no place on this compilation.

[sglgothmom]

true well at least certainly not doing the cover of a cure song

[sglgothmom]

okay when i first say this thread i had to read the comments and respond and i do see now how it is a goth starter kit and being in that fact why the hell is afi on there.... i'm also wondering why isn't there other songs on it... and anyone notice the lack of vnv ???? that's a huge bummer.

[Paper Hearts]

Unless you wanted to show in the compilation, influence on contemporary genres and illustrate how we get from Siouxsie Sioux to Marilyn Manson with nothing in common beyond the same title. I could also interpret this as they, who ever put this together, meaning to imply 'This is what went wrong' or, more likely...probably it was just to market to a few other people outside of the goth kingdom. But doesn't "goth" really belong more to Marilyn Manson than it ever belonged to Robert Smith when he was in the peak of his relevance, regardless of where that label comes from? ...Because the label was never realy applied until it was applied to really different (I say terrible) music, music much closer to that of MM than Ian Curtis. So. This all has a lot to do with it being a starter kit. Nobody buys a disc dressed in a corset and then goes off and has a serious time with their intellect.

[sglgothmom]

i don't care starter kit or not i still want it and i'll just burn more songs digitally to go with it but with the price tag being almost 70.00 and i'm broke it's not like i'm gonna buy it anytime soon and when i do it will more than likely be an impulse buy... or something to put on a christmas list.

[LuluVox]

okay when i first say this thread i had to read the comments and respond and i do see now how it is a goth starter kit and being in that fact why the hell is afi on there.... i'm also wondering why isn't there other songs on it... and anyone notice the lack of vnv ???? that's a huge bummer.

VNV isn't actually goth, though. They'd do better on Rhino's (fictional) Industrial/EMB/Synthpop/Whatever compilation.

[Paper Hearts]

i don't care starter kit or not i still want it and i'll just burn more songs digitally to go with it but with the price tag being almost 70.00 and i'm broke it's not like i'm gonna buy it anytime soon and when i do it will more than likely be an impulse buy... or something to put on a christmas list.

You are cracking me up with this 'no time for music' buisness and your premeditated impulse buys.

[LuluVox]

Nobody buys a disc dressed in a corset and then goes off and has a serious time with their intellect.

Excellent.

[Paper Hearts]

Excellent.

Re-issue ! Re-package ! Re-package !

Re-evaluate the songs

Double-pack with a photograph

Extra Track (and a tacky badge)

[LuluVox]

Please depressing Belgians.

[bav]

and as for the packaging i think it was a cool idea as far as i'm concerned corsets became part of the gothic culture when betty paige was modeled and photographed in one. think about it... and even though the goth genre has grown but that doesn't mean when a bunch of goth's are gathered you don't see at least ten girls in corsets and occasionally a few boys.

There was no such thing as 'gothic culture' when Betty Page was a pin-up. Tragically hip black-clads, yes...they were the beatniks.

There is a difference between the post-punk music of the early-mid 80s that became known as goth (after being death-rock for a bit) and what is commonly perceived as the goth scene today (which is primarily a fashion statement and a subcultural identification based on large cross-over audience of several different styles of music with many ridiculous sub-sub-sub genres).

I'm stopping now before this devolves [EDIT: even more] into a 'what is goth' post.