Being Gothic Vs. Being Negative

[glc]

I have recently emerged from a failed relationship with a beautiful gothic girl, whom I loved deeply. In many ways she was the girl of my dreams. One thing that always got me down however was that she was extremely negative. She hated people, she hated life, she hated sex, she hated damn near everything. Now I am of the opinion that it takes far less energy to ignore something rather than to concentrate on hating it.

Now I don't necessarily consider myself a "goth" but I definitey have an affinity with the dark side. I love the emotional music (music that makes me feel something, not emo!!), the fashion, I find gothic girls EXTREMELY attractive, and I employ a sense of deep emotional and philosophical thought that is generally embraced by the gothic subculture. But I also believe that the world is what you make of it. If you mope around hating your habitat and its inhabitants it is just self defeating. She considered me a positive person and an optomist, I prefer to think of myself as a realist, I take the shit things that happen to me in my stride and try to gain something out of it, even if it is just experience. I need to try and stay balanced otherwise I will achieve nothing in life.

So my question to all of you regards your opinions relating to negativity, and it's relatonship to being a goth, and whether or not negativity is relevent.

[Steven]

I have recently emerged from a failed relationship with a beautiful gothic girl, whom I loved deeply. In many ways she was the girl of my dreams. One thing that always got me down however was that she was extremely negative. She hated people, she hated life, she hated sex, she hated damn near everything. Now I am of the opinion that it takes far less energy to ignore something rather than to concentrate on hating it.

/quote]

ok so here's the part that's confusing me.....if she was extremely negative and hated so many things, how is it then that she was able to be the girl "of your dreams"? Maybe you need happier dreams?

[phee]

I like happy goths... but that is just me.. did the whole dating a derpessing goth thing... ended up marrying her... didn't work...

Good topic BTW

[Homicidalheathen]

I am part hippie part goth. And sometimes even I hate my hippie side. I grew up a hippie, from the 70's and 80's Then I got into metal and punk.......somehow along the way I started to dress dark, I write some dark songs...and I got into Industrial. I didn't even know I was goth until someone told me I was. But sometimes my hippie side still comes out and I will say something very flowery and nice and positive and shock even myself at how uh 'bright'? I can be.

Goth is just a label like anything else.

To try to change the side of you that isn't......be it redneck, ghetto....hippie....is stupid.

[BrassFusion]

Steven hit it right on the nose.

I don't see how you can say you find goth girls extremely attractive, because goth is really nothing more than a broad, ambiguous label. Find a girl you like from the inside and then you'll start to find her outside appealing, and maybe you can convince her to wear vinyl, y'know.

As for the negativity/goth correlation... I'm a big proponent of the idea that "goth" doesn't exist. Out of all the threads that have come and gone that have tried to define goth, none of them have succeeded. So if someone wants to be a negative nelly, they can go for it, but it's not necessary to fit in with any subculture. It's destructive, most of the time.

Happy inclusive goth is where it's at. =)

[glc]

Sorry, I think I caused some confusion with my "dream girl" comment. In many ways she was, except for that one negative part. Which in the end was fundamental in our demise, unfortunately.

I know that the term "Goth" is ambiguous, but somehow at the end of the day we have all ended up conversing on a gothic forum!

I think the thing I find attractive is the open mindedness and depth of thought that accompanies the "so called" gothic scene.

Perhaps this deeper thought is something that isolates the "goth" from their social peers, and stirs this negative emotion, but in any case I like to take this deeper thought and do something constructive with it.

I may be totally wrong, which is why I have put the question out there, but I like to think that there are other like minded dark loving people out there, who can still appreciate the good things and be constructive with their lives.

[Steven]

Sorry, I think I caused some confusion with my "dream girl" comment. In many ways she was, except for that one negative part. Which in the end was fundamental in our demise, unfortunately.

I know that the term "Goth" is ambiguous, but somehow at the end of the day we have all ended up conversing on a gothic forum!

I think the thing I find attractive is the open mindedness and depth of thought that accompanies the "so called" gothic scene.

Perhaps this deeper thought is something that isolates the "goth" from their social peers, and stirs this negative emotion, but in any case I like to take this deeper thought and do something constructive with it.

I may be totally wrong, which is why I have put the question out there, but I like to think that there are other like minded dark loving people out there, who can still appreciate the good things and be constructive with their lives.

I understand your point. My confusion lies in your describing her as ideal, and yet having a seemingly overwhelming sense of despondency, whcih to me, seems to kind of affect everything dont you think?

that's sort of like saying, I love this girl, she is so hot and has such an incredible mind, but she's got no arms and legs, is mute, and cant see or speak. But they way we click is just amazing.....

I personally can appreciate (at least I think I can, maybe I'm wrong) the "darker" side of things.

But I dont like to use them as an identifyer.

Simply because, I think they can take an effect on you over time.

[glc]

I understand your point. My confusion lies in your describing her as ideal, and yet having a seemingly overwhelming sense of despondency, whcih to me, seems to kind of affect everything dont you think?

that's sort of like saying, I love this girl, she is so hot and has such an incredible mind, but she's got no arms and legs, is mute, and cant see or speak. But they way we click is just amazing.....

It sounds wierd, but trust me it was a very complicated relationship! It started out great but after a few months it totally changed. And you're right - it did affect everything!

[Hellion]

I am just a metalhead Goth thats all,the depressing thing got old so I moved on,and are now alot happier

[kellygrrrrrl]

I see the connection between being goth and being "negative" or "pessimistic" or whatever.

I think that those that are in emotional depsair find a common thread and comfort amongst those in the Goth subculture.

Misery loves company.

A lot of people are outwardly happy, but sad on the inside.

Some people are not owardly happy and downright outward with thier despair, anger, sadness, which most people would normally supress.

People will generally express themself by using thier appearance.

Usually a car, the clothes they wear, the music they listen to, etc...

There are those theat are just More expressive than others.

But yes, I find myself being a realist as well.

[JaneDead]

I think the thing I find attractive is the open mindedness and depth of thought that accompanies the "so called" gothic scene.

Perhaps this deeper thought is something that isolates the "goth" from their social peers, and stirs this negative emotion, but in any case I like to take this deeper thought and do something constructive with it.

i want to respond to this even though this is not what you necessairly wanted to touch on:

(and when i refer to "goths" of course i am generalizing and not trying to label everyone here on this board or in the "goth community".)

i have found that goths are not necessarily more open-minded but rather they are open to OTHER things the 'normal' person might not be. they are open minded to things that others might not be but closed minded in regards to the 'normal' world.

i used to think goths were so open minded but then i hear how they negatively talk about the world around them and i realize they are just in a closed in little bubble just like anyone else they might hate that is not like them ... which leads me to the "deeper thinking" - i used to think that goths had that going on too but then i realized they are just quiet and dark but not necessarily thinking deeply about anything. maybe just thinking about pain and misery and being alone and that is not very deep now is it?

basically i think some/most/enough goths are just hyporcrites i guess. they sit there, negative about the world that doesn't accept them- but these are the same goths that don't accept the 'normal' world around them either. they feel they are so different or unique and no one will ever understand them or what they are going through but they ignore the fact that we are all human beings who at one time or another go through the same (or at least similar) things in life. we all have pain and joy and love and hate and feel rejected/unaccepted- even though some will argue that and say they never have love or joy. but if that is true i think that is your own fault cuz of your damn negative behavior.

and to directly answer your topic : Being Gothic Vs. Being Negative

i have found just as many negative "other" people out there as i have goths. they just gripe about different things. well, and some of the same things too. i think it is all about placing blame on other things.

"i'm not happy because people don't accpet me because i'm different/fat/skinny/goth/etc etc" when really people are not happy with themselves and it has nothing to do with what other people think or do. i for one don't look different on the outside but i am on the inside and for that people don't "get me". does that make me depressed/negative/pout/hate the world?? of course not. i actually AM different. and for that i am happy.

[BrassFusion]

Jane, you're so very right. I hope everyone who reads that reads it with an open mind.

[Onyx]

God this has gotten complicated.

Can't I just dress in black and go sit in a corner at the club and mope, then get up and dance awhile and breathe in all the clove smoke? That used to be so much fun! :laughing

[JaneDead]

Jane, you're so very right. I hope everyone who reads that reads it with an open mind.

well or at least be able to understand my run on sentences that seem to cover what i have already covered in a previous sentence and might cover again in another sentence later as if i never said it at all i have a way of doing that sometimes

[BrassFusion]

God this has gotten complicated.

Can't I just dress in black and go sit in a corner at the club and mope, then get up and dance awhile and breathe in all the clove smoke? That used to be so much fun! :laughing

You're not allowed to do that unless you're goth.

Unless doing that makes you goth anyway.

[Shade Everdark]

basically i think some/most/enough goths are just hyporcrites i guess. they sit there, negative about the world that doesn't accept them- but these are the same goths that don't accept the 'normal' world around them either. they feel they are so different or unique and no one will ever understand them or what they are going through but they ignore the fact that we are all human beings who at one time or another go through the same (or at least similar) things in life. we all have pain and joy and love and hate and feel rejected/unaccepted- even though some will argue that and say they never have love or joy. but if that is true i think that is your own fault cuz of your damn negative behavior.

I do hate to disagree with such a well-spoken little essay, but unfortunately, I must take issue with it.

You see, you are confusing understanding humanity with understanding a specific person. It's possible to understand humanity (though I doubt I ever will); pain, sorrow, joy, ecstacy, beauty, hate, love, friendship, loyalty, honor, betrayal, all of it. No one will ever understand completely the peculiar, unique intermix of all of those that make up someone else. That doesn't make it futile, and it doesn't make the 'education' worthless, but it is important to realize that you WON'T understand what someone else is going through, and nor will anyone else (though I make the mistake in the moment of saying things like that all the time, shame on me). Even if two people go through the exact same situation, the two won't react the same way to it, won't have the same thoughts or emotions. Hell, it's difficult enough understanding one's own headspace.

Bottom line: it's because it's impossible to completely understand anyone else that we associate with others. There's always something new to learn, some new perspective to glean from those around us, even if we can't fathom it, don't understand it, or even dislike it.

Sorry, that's a bit off the beaten topic.

[JaneDead]

well i don't mean to say that everyone will FEEL or REACT the same way to the situations. i just mean as humans we do have more in common than we like to acknowledge.

for example i might lose a parent/loved one/child etc and so might someone else. doesn't mean i will handle it just like another person but it is something that i go through, you go through, we all will go through.

everyone is certainly different but we do have common ties to one another.