White Pride

[BrassFusion]

Some advocate the advancement of certain races from their status quo- races that have been historically exploited, often by Caucasians. Some others feel that the celebration of any race requires the freedom to celebrate ALL races, filial sins of the past notwithstanding.

I feel that culture- not race- is the thing to celebrate. There is no "white" culture, nor is there a "black" culture. There are varieties of European, African, Asian, Polynesian, Hispanic, and American cultures AND subcultures for us to choose from. Why limit our cultural celebrations to white and black, and why praise some skin colors and hair types over other physical traits?

It is in the best interest of all of our cultures to remove the insulation that says only "whites" may celebrate European culture and only "blacks" may celebrate African culture.

...In my opinion.

Discuss.

[phee]

Some advocate the advancement of certain races from their status quo- races that have been historically exploited, often by Caucasians. Some others feel that the celebration of any race requires the freedom to celebrate ALL races, filial sins of the past notwithstanding.

I feel that culture- not race- is the thing to celebrate. There is no "white" culture, nor is there a "black" culture. There are varieties of European, African, Asian, Polynesian, Hispanic, and American cultures AND subcultures for us to choose from. Why limit our cultural celebrations to white and black, and why praise some skin colors and hair types over other physical traits?

It is in the best interest of all of our cultures to remove the insulation that says only "whites" may celebrate European culture and only "blacks" may celebrate African culture.

...In my opinion.

Discuss.

I agree with the above post...

Not trying to sound funny here but Eminem.... sums this up...

Granted certain races seem to be associated with certain sub cultures, but this is more echos of the past and nationality... not of skin tone

[Gaf The Horse With Tears]

I don't beleive anyone should have Pride in the color of thier skin beyond thinking of yourself as being as beutiful as you are. No "race" should have special privilages. No special interests groups based on "race". WE are all of the same human race with only ethnic distictions between us. Ethnic distictions are trivia. I have plenty of reasons to dislike people, I dont need to pretend they are somehow less than I am because they have a different skin color. That is stupid. Being treated special because of skin color is just as stupid.

If people insist on treating others this way and demand they be treated that way.. I only have one thing to say "We Came, We Saw, We Conqured" Deal with it.

White people did not invent war, suffering, slavery or any other "evil". Stop blaming me for every evil of the world because of my skin color.

[Msterbeau]

This is such a multi faceted issue/problem/situation... it's tough to know where to begin.

The point about color that is most important to me is that underneath we are all human. Any one of us could have been born to another race. It shouldn't matter. It doesn't to me.

So "pride" in your race seems like a silly concept. I understand Pomba's remarks about education and history although I think they more accurately belong under the cultural banner. Even different cultures and languages can sometimes leave me feeling uncomfortable because they can (and are) used as an exclusionary tool. Like Mark said once... humans seem to like nothing more then to be part of a group... so they can exclude others from it. Whether this is a natural condition or not, I don't know. But the fact that it might be shouldn't prevent us from trying to change it.

I think the far tougher thing to do is resolving this ideal model of human behavior with past injustices. In the US, that injustice was perpetrated primarily by whites on other minorities, and that injustice has left a legacy that puts many minorities in a disadvantaged social, economic and psychological position. So it's easy for us who are white to say... "lets make everything even now." But is it?

I have more to say but I'm hungry...

[BrassFusion]

I think the far tougher thing to do is resolving this ideal model of human behavior with past injustices. In the US, that injustice was perpetrated primarily by whites on other minorities, and that injustice has left a legacy that puts many minorities in a disadvantaged social, economic and psychological position. So it's easy for us who are white to say... "lets make everything even now." But is it?

No, it's not. But it's not gonna be even till we MAKE it even, and there will never be a better time than the present, in my opinion.

[Head Wreck]

the longer we get hung up on our differances the longer we stay segregated.

[n0Mad]

When I was studying my APA publication manual for school there was a section saying how we shouldn't use the term "Asian-American" because people might get offended. Instead it should be Chinese-American, Japanese-American, Korean-American, and so forth. Then the next section says that Black or Negro are unacceptable terms but African-American is the propper term. WTF? If people get pissed off at Asian-American than how come African-American is okay? Why not Kenyan-American, Nigerian-American, or even Egyptian-American (because yes, Egypt is part of Africa)? There is more difference between somebody from South Africa and somebody from Morocco than say, Taiwan and the Philippines. Let's lump all the Africans together though because heck, <sarcasm>they all look the same to me.</sarcasm>

[Steven]

whew.....multifaceted issue indeed......some breif off tht top of my head thoughts....

I am "Proud" to be Latino. I am. Is it the color of my skin that I'm talking about?

Incidently I'm the light one, my brothers look like me but have very dark skin, almost black hair, and very dark eyes....

A nod of respect to Erin goes here, because I am talking about culture. I love the passion that is so inherent in my people. I love the farming roots, the artistic leanings, the vidi use of color, the ability to laugh at the most heinous events and times, the loyalty among family, and the beauty of the language. I love the style of the food and the strange things (like tripe) that we eat that is basically rooted in being poor and enslaved by Spaniards just like Soul Food (which I also adore) is rooted in slavery and they made what they could out of the leftovers and throwaways that they received. I cannot explain to you what it feels like to be Latino, but I can say that I feel blessed to come from those roots. It grounds me, to know where I come from. To know the story of my people and their struggles is invaluable to me because it has tremendous depth, and as a people, we ensure that we remember.

Yet at the same time, I know what its like to be ridiculed for it. Fucking Mexican, Lazy Mexican (and jesus people I am way overbooked and ANYTHING but lazy) Beaner, Wetback, all of that, has been said to my face in disgust since I was a kid and even recently here in MI by my white sister in law.

My father is a Mexican gardner, and we were poor so I was his helper. I remember wanting to talk to or hang with certain kids in Junior High school, kids in my own classes, but they came from the rich side of town, and we were their gardners. I mowed their lawns saturday morning, raked their leaves, stepped in their dog's dog shit. Certain girls said things about me in the hallway, things about me being their gardner. If we ever got paird up to do projects in class, they were obviously disgusted by me and never hid theor revulsion...I got lessons in the caste system of society at a young age. I learned. We stay over here, and you stay over there, and all shall be wonderful.

Those things are rooted in negative stereotypes. Mine: that Mexicans are overunning this country illegally and talking up our resources and get welfare and medical provisions and turning out neighborhoods into ghettos when hardworking white americans get nothing and have to pay for those mexicans who all have babies at 14 out of wedlock.

And there is truth to some of that. Yes.

Just like there is truth that prisons are overcrowded with minorities, primarily black, then Latinos. There is truth to that. We have our problems inside of our respective cultures that includeds a criminal element, I have no issue with stating that as a fact. And not because of statistics. But because of personal human experience inside of the Latino culture. Incidentlly the white/Euro cultures have a growing issue of their own that is manifesting at alarming rates as well, that of chemically evaluating and pharmecutically "treating" our children but thats a whole other Oprah.

When I was in Cali a few weeks back, I watched the Hospital staff treat my grandparents and my mother, who very much "look" the typical Latino part, like scum, like leeches that were in their hospital sucking up white resources.

On the morning of my Grandfathers Nacho's surgery, they talked to him like shit and almost denied him services because he had forgotten to bring along some paperwork. because you know, OBVIOUSLY he must have transferred in from some free clinic from Azusa or Highland Park (where the Mexicans should stay) . We kept trying to get them to look up the information...the name is Melendrez, Melendrez, its in the database, we've been coming to this hospital for a long time. We were waived off - "yes we've checked and your not in the system and this SSN (Mexicans are famous for having fake SSN numbers) does not match up with your name and you'll just ahve to talk to your doctor and reschedule because somethign is out of order. The man had cancer in the 3rd stage. He came to have it removed. There was no rescheduling. He came to the hospital to see if he could still live. She came to punch the clock and was not to be bothered by these fucking wetbacks and had allready given us a full 7 minutes of her valuable time.

After much pressing - we solved the problem. Our white, blue eyed nurse, had input MELENDEZ as opposed to MELENDREZ. Both are common latino names. Like uh, Jones and James. But if Jones came in in a Mercedes and James came in in an old battered pickup truck, who do you think would get preferential treatment? And who do you think came in his old battered pickup truck (his pride incidentlly because he's had it so long). Once the right name cleared and the info was uploaded, he was able to be admitted for surgery. No apologies mind you.

Now, its true that my grandparents look like wetbacks. They do. They wear old work clothes, drive old cars, have very strong accents. Yet they are fully insured, are completely legal american citizens, and they are worth about a million dollars and own several different california properties. They are frugal, they are hardworking, and their money has gone in to hard investments that will pass on to the family.

That too - is the Latino way. That too, is truthful. Work hard, live simple, save your money, help the family.

But society has to choose - even better - society has to be able to comprehend and visualize - that there is more to the typical idea than what they know. We all walked into that Hopsital with hopeful hearts. And were quickly sized up and reduced to social ills. I was fucking furious, but we had to maintain our composure, be professional, and keep Nacho's spirits up.

He died two days ago in tha same hospital that he never made it out of. And I've had alot of things on my mind. But the fucking humiliation he had to stand there and endure in front of his wife and children and grandchildren, because he did not look right, sound right, and present himself right, is very difficult for me to put away right now. One of his last experiences on this earth, was fucking racism. A reduction of his value as a human, because of the caste of people he came from. Laying there on his gurney waiting he had ceased to be Atancio Melendrez, a very loyal and hardworking and honest man who was loved by many people and admired by even more for his quick sense of humour and simple values. Instead they wiped that away and hung a banner over him that said " just another fucking mexican".

Yes we are all the same under our skin.

But its just not that simple, despite all the rhetoric in the world and the best of intentions and the loftiest ideals.....Racism continues to thrive and shapeshift. Pomba knows that. I know that, and unlike Pomba I do not "look" like a typical stereotype, hence I do not wear it everyday like I assume (forgive me for speaking for you) she does.

Someone once contacted me on this board via PM, and admitted to me that because of their own social conditioning, every time I posted the first thing that came to mind was "Fucking Spic". Yes, here on DGN, I was a fucking spic.

think about that for a minute.

I actually admired this person for being upfront and admitting there was a problem.

I dont hate white people, I dont hate any people, but I do think that whites can misinterpret what racial pride is meant to be. ANd I also think that Minorities can overstep their bounds and exascerbate the problems that we have among us. Nobody owes me anything. Nobody owes Pomba anything. But give me my dignity, and allow me to explain what I mean by pride, better yet, explore it with me, and find a common thread betwen us.

[Steven]

bump

(good topic)

[Msterbeau]

Steven, your response is exactly why making a special effort to include minorities in higher education and certain employment opportunities still makes sense. Many people, many whites live sheltered lives when it comes to socializing with other races. Hearing other peoples stories... their perspective, allows those from other backrounds to gain an appreciation for the way other people live. I think that can benefit us all. BUT... we don't get that perspective if those people aren't around to share it. And the odds are, like it or not (As whites) that there will be far less of them, because of what I mentioned earlier, without making special efforts to include them in places where they gain opportunities to become part of mainstream society. So is this something that should last forever? Hell no. Is it something that seems "unfair"? Yep... Is this a silver bullet that will fix racism and bigotry? Hahahahahahahahahhaha!!! Nope. Until people stop passing this hatred on to their children... as long as people perceive that they are being discriminated against because of color... as long as minorities (and whites) live in poverty and social situations that make it difficult to have a reasonable home life (Which I would hope translates into a better chance at doing well in school during K12 years.) ... We're going to have these problems to deal with.

[Msterbeau]

No, it's not. But it's not gonna be even till we MAKE it even, and there will never be a better time than the present, in my opinion.

Why? Because you're alive and in your prime now? How convenient.

[Homicidalheathen]

On one side of my family we have peeps who came over on the mayflower....on the other side also very prominent and powerful 'white' family.....but.....the first side, my dads? Well they think my moms side is 'tainted' because we have a bit of cherokee in us......then anyone who is part native american tells me I should be proud of that.....

Whatever. I don't think souls take race into consideration much when choosing a body....

[Head Wreck]

i am not politicaly correct by far, i do bad things like refer to peoples colur when describing them (a thing thats wrong apparently) but i can describe them by eye colour or hair colour aparently.

pollitical correctness just causes more hastle than its worth.

its odd though, i was talking to a friend the other night, who comented on me always sitting in a chair hidden behind a piano waiting for people to arive. he's noticed that even in the british, the welsh tend to sit in nooks alcoves where the more reserved english would be more likely to take a centre table.

[Msterbeau]

i am not politicaly correct by far, i do bad things like refer to peoples colur when describing them (a thing thats wrong apparently) but i can describe them by eye colour or hair colour aparently.

pollitical correctness just causes more hastle than its worth.

its odd though, i was talking to a friend the other night, who comented on me always sitting in a chair hidden behind a piano waiting for people to arive. he's noticed that even in the british, the welsh tend to sit in nooks alcoves where the more reserved english would be more likely to take a centre table.

We can always rely on you for the odd bit of trivia. Thanks. :-)

[BrassFusion]

Steven: I love you.

Steven, your response is exactly why making a special effort to include minorities in higher education and certain employment opportunities still makes sense. Many people, many whites live sheltered lives when it comes to socializing with other races. Hearing other peoples stories... their perspective, allows those from other backrounds to gain an appreciation for the way other people live. I think that can benefit us all. BUT... we don't get that perspective if those people aren't around to share it. And the odds are, like it or not (As whites) that there will be far less of them, because of what I mentioned earlier, without making special efforts to include them in places where they gain opportunities to become part of mainstream society. So is this something that should last forever? Hell no. Is it something that seems "unfair"? Yep... Is this a silver bullet that will fix racism and bigotry? Hahahahahahahahahhaha!!! Nope. Until people stop passing this hatred on to their children... as long as people perceive that they are being discriminated against because of color... as long as minorities (and whites) live in poverty and social situations that make it difficult to have a reasonable home life (Which I would hope translates into a better chance at doing well in school during K12 years.) ... We're going to have these problems to deal with.

Presenting a special opportunity to a man based on his racial heritage is no different than saying "I'm white, and I'm better than you. I am more smart and talented and skilled and I know better people. My family had more money. I'll throw you a bone, though, because I'm one heck of a guy."

What could be more disrespectful than that?

Why? Because you're alive and in your prime now? How convenient.

I just found out today that I'm making $105 weekly on my Saturday morning classes (my only steady source of income for the past four years). Registration was phenomenal- last semester I had a new low of four students. I came in the door today and hooted in celebration for the twenty students I registered.

Two of whom were white.

Now I just need to find a 9-5 job, or maybe a part time so I can actually go back to school. It'll be hard, but at least I can no longer legally be denied a job based on my skin color, pending the application of prop 2.

This had better not be the "prime" of my life.

[TygerLili]

No, it's not. But it's not gonna be even till we MAKE it even, and there will never be a better time than the present, in my opinion.

I agree with this in theory, but it will never be that simple. We can say "Okay, from this day on all people are equal and everything is even." We can even pass legislature making it so. We can take all children and educate them from this day forward about everything that happened in the past and tell them that now, despite all that, we live in an equal society.

But we can't change how people already feel about other races and cultures. My grandparents still hate the Japanese because of Pearl Harbor. I don't agree with them, and I've argued with my grandmother that this way of thinking is outdated and is hurting our society, but she's a stubborn old woman and I'm not going to change her mind. I went to high school with people from my own generation who believed in white supremacy because that's what their parents taught them. They argued with teachers who tried to explain that all people are equal. Those people are not going to just change their minds overnight. It would take a lot of re-education to get through to people like this, and administering that education would violate their first ammendment rights. When the 9-11 attacks occured I was afraid we'd see all Arab-American people in concentration camps based on some of the comments I heard, not just from students, but from well-educated adults about "going over and bombing the hell out of them!"

I wish we could all just say that the past doesn't matter and everything is even now, and by all means I think we should continute to strive for equality. However old ideas don't die easily and, without creating a Big-Brotheresque society and wiping cultural history clean, how could we police what biggoted things people believe and say in private?

[Msterbeau]

Presenting a special opportunity to a man based on his racial heritage is no different than saying "I'm white, and I'm better than you. I am more smart and talented and skilled and I know better people. My family had more money. I'll throw you a bone, though, because I'm one heck of a guy."

What could be more disrespectful than that?

In theory... you're right, and I agree. In reality... I think most of us would take the bone if it meant getting a desired opportunity. Is that bone much different then getting an advantage through family connections, friendship, money... or whatever? Not really. The key thing here.. to me... is that many minorities have been put in a disadvantaged situation primarily due to hundreds of years of slavery/racism. I'm willing to accept the giving of this particular bone for the time being. I do think the process should be getting harder to use... meaning that over time it applies to less less people... Right now it favors all minorities. It should really be only for the truly disadvantaged. The ones from the worst socio economic situations.

This had better not be the "prime" of my life.

It's all downhill now....

[Msterbeau]

I agree with this in theory, but it will never be that simple. We can say "Okay, from this day on all people are equal and everything is even." We can even pass legislature making it so. We can take all children and educate them from this day forward about everything that happened in the past and tell them that now, despite all that, we live in an equal society.

But we can't change how people already feel about other races and cultures. My grandparents still hate the Japanese because of Pearl Harbor. I don't agree with them, and I've argued with my grandmother that this way of thinking is outdated and is hurting our society, but she's a stubborn old woman and I'm not going to change her mind. I went to high school with people from my own generation who believed in white supremacy because that's what their parents taught them. They argued with teachers who tried to explain that all people are equal. Those people are not going to just change their minds overnight. It would take a lot of re-education to get through to people like this, and administering that education would violate their first ammendment rights. When the 9-11 attacks occured I was afraid we'd see all Arab-American people in concentration camps based on some of the comments I heard, not just from students, but from well-educated adults about "going over and bombing the hell out of them!"

I wish we could all just say that the past doesn't matter and everything is even now, and by all means I think we should continute to strive for equality. However old ideas don't die easily and, without creating a Big-Brotheresque society and wiping cultural history clean, how could we police what biggoted things people believe and say in private?

+1

Your grandparents are good example of how the intermingling of cultures/races could be helpful. Imagine them sitting down with a Japanese couple of similar age. It may not change their mind, but they would see that there's another face to this. That the Japanese suffered too... because of the actions of their government, not as a race.

[Vampyro]

This is an extremely touchy subject and I've waited a few days before posting my 2 cents... Not sure how people will take this but here goes....

I think it's ok to be proud of who you are, not neccesarily by skin color, but heratige it's self. I'm mostly irish, and very proud of that side of my heratige. I don't think it's better than anyone elses, but i'm proud of the fact that it does add color to the painting of the human race. Everyone's heratige and culture adds it's own color to the human race. I do find it very interesting to view how we live life today, how different cultures do things differently, and how each culture has come to be from their ancestors and how they went about life. Aside from small different customs and languages, it's all the same way prettymuch.

What really grinds my gears, is those who are set in their ways. There is a big racial difference in the media. The're, to me, extremely racist. I've heard of some extremely horrible crimes against blacks, that never made it in the paper even, but some white girl gets mugged, it's on the tv news... i seriously have to take a moment of silence and ponder WHAT THE FUCK?!?! when i come into information like this.

Another thing that upsets me even more is someone of a certain color, having an attitude about it. I'm not directing biased to any color specificly, it could be white, black, hispanic, oriental, ect but if they get an attitude against others about it. I'm focusing mainly on immagrants. No, I don't want my fucking atm to have a spanish option, we're in america, no I don't want to hear that arabian tongue, we're in america. We speak english, we have our own culture, and there's a simple phrase to sum my complaint about this up...

"WHEN IN ROME, DO AS THE ROMANS!" You aint in your own country anymore, so stop acting like we should bend over backwards to adapt to your reigon's culture, when you left there to come here. If you wanna live like that so badly, shouldn't have come here i say.

As for anyone having an inferiority complex due to color, that's the subject I'm not going to touch, I have no opinion on that, and I have no idea what I'd be talking about to speak for others. You can walk a mile in someone's shoes, but an entire lifetime as someone else is something no one can ever do.

[BrassFusion]

Lily... while bigotry may not die, the bigots themselves do, and if we lose the whole "affirmative action slavery reparation etc." bullshit, we won't be creating new bigots at the rate we are now.

Right now it favors all minorities.

Racial minorities, and I thought race didn't matter.

How about we start by giving a leg up to ECONOMICALLY DISADVANTAGED people instead of just brown people? I have a serious problem with people my age whose parents each have six-figure incomes getting a free ride through college and first crack at job openings because their skin color is historically "inferior" to mine. I have SO many problems with that, as do many, many self-respecting "brown" people. As well they should.

[Steven]

I dont know the answer to all of this.

Marc made some valid points about general exposure between whites and minorities rarely interacting and how affirmative action (within reason) can posssibly help with that problem.

And Erin (XOXOX) likewise made good points about it simply being WRONG when this provision creates loopholes that are taken advantage of and creates roadblocks for whites who's due diligence goes unrewarded. This too, is legitimite.

My questions to us all.....why do we not intentionally interact?

Surely we can quote statistics and blame income levels as a divisive force.

But at some point we also must look at ourselves. It is our nature as humans, to click off. We do it with race, social class, relgiosity, and sub-cultures. We work hard to maintain certain comfort levels and do not invest nearly the same amount of energy in overcoming the invisible walls that have been handed down to us, intentional or not.

My Father never, ever, took the time to speak to me about interacial interaction. Now he did not seperate himself (as I admit I have seen doen within my own culture) from other races. But he also never found it important enough, to make it a proactive part of his nature.....seeking reconcilliation. He was a busy man, he had no time for that....right? arent we all busy? Too busy to take on another burdon?

the fact of the matter is that for me, because I was often ostracized by different peer groups growing up, I develped an affinity for different types of people. It is in me, to want to understand, to want to connect, to want to build bridges, and not just racially. For example in my overt jesus freakiness I have still been able to become one of you, and to be a part of "this" thing we are here in DGN.

It does take effort however. You have to care.....enough....to be consistent in your efforts. There are those of us here who will relate to that and those fo us who simply do not have the time or inclination to do so. No social reconditioning will tear down those walls. No political machinery will do so either. it is a grass roots thing, as is prejudice, and fear, these things are grass roots thigns, and look how powerful they are. I beleive that is where the battleground truly is, in our everyday circumstances, inside of real life conversation, and far beyond our personal boundries and comfort levels.

[BrassFusion]

In response, Steven:

You can't force people to respect and care for other people just through exposure. Also, some of the programs directed at the advancement of minority groups can be even more insular than something similar that has no ties to race. Example:

There's a music program for black and latino children that rehearses weekly after my classes let out. it's called the Sphinx program.

Now.

I've had parents ask for information about it, my opinion of it, or just a contact number to call someone who DOES know something, but I don't know ANYTHING ABOUT Sphinx because I'm white... the only thing I know is that the involvement of someone of my "race" would be against the original mission of the institution.

My solution (and I know it's not a popular one, but I'll repeat it, again) is time. There may be some people who intentionally shy away from learning about others' cultures, or talking to "racial minorities," but that's because we still have separatist rules in place. When we take those rules away, succeeding generations simply won't have a reason to be racist and it will gradually go away.

Sucks that no one credits an optimist.

[n0Mad]

There was a girl who was born in Kenya. She grew up in Kenya. She lived her whole life up through high school in Kenya. One of her parents though was American so she had American citizenship. She applied for college in the United States and on the application where it asked her race she marked "African-American" because that's what she was. The college gave her a huge Affirmative Action scholarship and even more scholarships because she was actually coming from Africa. When she showed up on the campus and they found out she was white, the university revoked all her scholarships and expelled her from school for lying on her application. She took them to court and won!

Stuff like Affirmative Action and minority scholarships are supposed to help against discrimination but in reality are propagating it.

[BrassFusion]

There was a girl who was born in Kenya. She grew up in Kenya. She lived her whole life up through high school in Kenya. One of her parents though was American so she had American citizenship. She applied for college in the United States and on the application where it asked her race she marked "African-American" because that's what she was. The college gave her a huge Affirmative Action scholarship and even more scholarships because she was actually coming from Africa. When she showed up on the campus and they found out she was white, the university revoked all her scholarships and expelled her from school for lying on her application. She took them to court and won!

Stuff like Affirmative Action and minority scholarships are supposed to help against discrimination but in reality are propagating it.

The horrible thing is that if she had been the exact same girl with the same background and the same Kenyan accent (presumably) but had black skin instead of white, no one would have questioned the grants, even though it would have meant that her predecessors had not been specifically oppressed by slavery in America.

Anyway, fubars like that probably don't happen too often.

[torn asunder]

The key thing here.. to me... is that many minorities have been put in a disadvantaged situation primarily due to hundreds of years of slavery/racism.

let me ask this, if i may... (and i'm sure it will come across as insensitive, but i want to bring it up anyway) have any of these people whose ancestors went thru slavery ever stopped to think that if they hadn't been brought here for that specific reason, they most likely would still be living in a hut in africa somewhere? (it's just an example, lighten up) is anyone thankful that, although their ancestors were forced to go thru that unwillingly, that if they hadn't, their life would be faaar different, and more than likely a lot worse than they have it now? is anyone who cries racism, grateful for the fact that they do now live in america, where they do have the "opportunity" to be whatever they want? which brings me to another thing - opportunity is far different than entitlement, which is an attitude i see far too often...

hell, i just ran out of mental energy to continue this right now. i'm sure i'll be blasted by a few people by the time i get back to this, and maybe then i'll be able to go on... *sigh*