Opinionated: Best Leaders Of All Time

[Mizuna]

Any leaders are allowed, political, religious, military, sports:unsure:, business, etc. anyone.

Explain why and be prepaid to defend you opinion.

Mine would be Muhammad the Islam Prophet. Followed close by Hitler and Joan of Arc.

Why Joan? Anyone that can get the French to fight would have to be a good leader.

[Troy Spiral (13)]

I think many will view "Best Leader" as an oxymoron since many of us have become so cynical about leadership. Who is the most "Honest Theif"

Its such a broad question that im not sure i can answer.

I'll just artificially narrow it down to "best political leader defined as their positive influence on the outcome of current history."

George Washington or Abraham Lincoln

I think its important to judge leaders on their actual effect on history, not just what they stood for. Thus these guys are the big shots of democratic and world government. Moral authority is great, but if they cant or don't ever actually get anything done, i don't think I'd put such a person on a list like this. Unfortunately no non-US political leader (even Hitler / Stalin) had the positive impact on history the way these guys have.

In terms of influence/effect on the world the U.S. system of government has been the most influential system in history, able to effect global change in a way that no previous government could have. Thus it sets up American leadership in a position to change things positively or negatively more than any others.

Both of these guys had plenty of negative aspects to them. But the end result was a positive change for the globe.

Washington:

Washington was probably the ONLY guy that could have unified the colonies and had everyones respect. Thus paving the way for democracy on a global scale for the rest of the world, probably for all time. He had such high respect after the war that if he had wanted to he could have easily been dictator of the colonies.

He could have set himself up as King (the way Nepolian wanted to but couldn't pull off) but instead he steped DOWN and set in motion the modern freedom-centered governmental system that has been a model for the world.

Lincoln:

Steered the U.S. through the most troubling time in its history, and thus showed that Democracy could survive and even thrive on the world stage. Up until this point democracy was viewed by most governments as a bit of a joke, and unlikely to work out in the long run.

The Civil War was the crossroads of the American being and made us what we have become (both good and bad). By extension it gave the world a model for democracy and showed that it could with sand internal pressures.

Thomas Jefferson would be a third pick being , if any single person was, the "author" of the constitution which is sort of the blueprint by which this experiment in democracy was built on.

Others:

I could pick some less well known, but far more "romantic" leaders. None with a combination of good judgment and massive influence that im ware of though. Ghandi ? Cool guy but short lived in his influence. Martin Luther King Jr. ? But but not far reaching enough. FDR? Great job on WWII but not the unique character that Jefferson / Washington / Lincoln were and not particularly necessary to world history, (as seen by his death and the ball being picked up quite easily)

Margret Thatcher? Regan? Again all short lived influence wise (and questionable if they were a positive or negative effect on history)

Most all leaders are products of their time. Unfortunately some are just not positioned at the right place at the right time, despite having great potential.

Damn that turned into a novel.

[Scary Guy]

What makes a good leader though, that's the important question. Someone with a passion so great it inspires others to follow them. A commanding voice usually helps too. Someone who can spin propaganda and make people believe anything. Someone who can make a bad situation look like it's working to the people's advantage.

Now what would we like in a leader, that's the other question. Morals (but not religious ones), not to get drunk from power, intelligence and understanding, someone working for the people's agenda and not their own (and that's all people, not just their own chosen groups). Someone people can look up to and rely on, and someone who knows who they can rely on and picks good wingmen to help get the job done.

Sometimes the best leaders aren't those that take the job because they want it either, but because there is no one else who will or is competent enough to do it properly..

[know_buddy_kares]

Any leaders are allowed, political, religious, military, sports:unsure:, business, etc. anyone.

Explain why and be prepaid to defend you opinion.

Mine would be Muhammad the Islam Prophet. Followed close by Hitler and Joan of Arc.

Why Joan? Anyone that can get the French to fight would have to be a good leader.

Ok, first up, take a history lesson, Muhammad married a 9 year old, then actually conceived the marrige (had sex with her with witnesses) at age 10.

Adolph was into little boys and was a hypocritical narcisitic half jew himself. And Joan.. yeah i'll agree with you there.

[Scary Guy]

Ok, first up, take a history lesson, Muhammad married a 9 year old, then actually conceived the marrige (had sex with her with witnesses) at age 10.

Adolph was into little boys and was a hypocritical narcisitic half jew himself. And Joan.. yeah i'll agree with you there.

Hitler was a mass murderer and Muhammad is just plain mad. Personal lives aside though they did get a ton of people to follow them, so they must have done something right = good leader, though I don't agree with the direction that either were leading them. I don't necessarily agree with the direction Joan of Arc (who was insane and thought god was talking to her) went either though.

[Mizuna]

All religious leaders will be considered crazy, hell all leaders that were around over 200 years ago could be considered crazy. Thats because of the ever changing social norms of society. Back in Mohammad's time that was most likely the normal age to elope or have children, thats because people plain didn't live long. Thus your statement about him being a bad leader due to his, now seen pedophilia ways is irrelevant. So heres a history lesson, social norms change.

As for Adolph Hitler basically the same applies. Imagine if he didn't lose the war, would we think of him in the same light? Winston Churchill said it best I think? Not sure if it was him but, "History will be nice to me, for I plan to write it."

Nonetheless, Troy seems to be the only one to understand the concept of this thread, it isn't about leaders actions but the ability for them to lead.

This is why I think Mohammad and Adolph were both great leaders. Mohammad had managed to create a religion so huge the after math of it is still around today. I will not deny the fact it would have been easier back then, still might have been today, I haven't meet someone who isn't in search of the meaning of life. Just like Washington etc, he has managed to create something that has been around for generations and will not soon be forgotten. His ability to lead people at the time was astounding, the amount of charisma that he must have had to lead people to a state of religion is awesome. There were only a few with this ability in history, most of them were around early times, latest I personally think would be Ghandi. The leadership style may have been different from a lot of newer leaders, but ignoring leadership in different forms might not be to smart. Leadership in my mind isn't always through influence, respect and power but also through manipulation.

Manipulation... Is where Hitler comes into play. Hitler was such a great leader and had a feel about him that he actually not only was the catalyst to the Jewish genocide, but actually gone an entire country to rally after the cause. The most amazing thing about this is though, it wasn't a havoc filled, feral rampage that earlier genocides had, like the Armenian genocide for example. He actually manipulated his people with so much lies etc that they actually believed the Jewish people to be evil. People like to place the entire blame on Hitler was the supreme power at the time in Germany, but you can't say that, that alone made the people on the outskirts of the German empire kill Jewish people in their towns because he was the main power at the time.

I personally think its not about what affects people leaders have had on the world. But their actual leadership qualities they had or have. Be it manipulation, power, respect, religion, friendship, feel or what ever, is what I think is important and how they used it not the final outcomes of their actions. If it was the ever lasting affects they had on the world, I would have said the most successful leaders. Scary guy (Ph34rs) also shared a decent amount as me on this view.

Still, who you think is or was a good leader Scary Guy?

Heinz

[BrassFusion]

i wish i was more learned on the subject (hmm, maybe it's time for a nice non-fiction book to curl up with... thanks for the idea), but i'd tend to agree with your hitler selection. amazing leader, if a sociopathic asshole.

i'll also throw in castro. shit's been just the way he's wanted it for most of his life

[Head Wreck]

wiliam wilberforce. not really a leader but a strong political force that wanted slavery abolished (after the trade itself was made illegal which upset some white folk in the new world who up and started an insurgence while we were busy on 3 other fronts).

lion-O a largely inspirational leader and moral cornerstone on 3rd Earth, without him thundera's legacy would have been wiped out.

lord Nelson: a rather loved figure at the time by the common people and started majour reform in naval tactics, his method was to allow captains to make thier own descisions after being briefed on the battle plan rather than traditional t6acktics of taking its lead by signalers on the command ship.

[Der Nister]

Benjamin Franklin had good potential (from what I've learned about him).

Right now no one else worth a mention comes to mind but then again, I haven't dedicated much thought to this question.

Maybe more people will come to mind later.

[BrassFusion]

didn't benjamin franklin refuse the presidency? he seemed like more of an innovator than a leader. which sucks because oftentimes the people who would make the best leaders have no desire to do it

[Steven]

How about leaders in your own social circles?

better yet...how bout YOU?

Are you a person of integrity?

Are you tristworthy?

Does your word carry any weight?

Are you someone that others turn to for companionship and accountability?

Do YOU impact your world?

Is YOUR legacy worth remembering?

I love this topic. I hope we stretch it a bit.....

[BrassFusion]

i'm not tristworthy, but i'm told i'm pretty trystworthy.

sorry love, i really couldn't help that one

[Scary Guy]

Still, who you think is or was a good leader Scary Guy?

Well shit, it's not every day someone asks me my opinion. But you're new and will eventually learn that most people think I suck and probably jump on said bandwagon.

For the most part history names all the good leaders for us. Most of the big names that stand out are great examples.

I like a lot of the comedians as far as the political ones go. Lets throw Jello Biafra in there as well for his spoken word work and song lyrics. Not exactly leaders but good ideas. But the fans get into it and the ideas do their job, to make the fans see their point of view which helps to shape future leaders.

Pope JP II visited a cinagog which I thought was a good move for a leader as far as diplomatic relations go. Franklin was mentioned earlier and he does count since sometimes the best leaders aren't always the person in power at the time. He certainly helped to shape the early Americas and write the constitution.

Personally I believe in true democracy where there are no leaders and everyone has equal say. Obviously the only way that could work is over the internet these days to network the country and such a thing will probably never happen. In the republic however I think the best leaders are the ones who do the job to the best of their ability and to the majorities wishes (while still considering the minorities) and then get out. Career politicians are really the bane of the USA.

To be honest I can't say, I just see them as regular people in positions of power, subject to the same thoughts and feelings as normal people, and just as corruptible.

When in doubt, go with Ghandi

[Mizuna]

Am I a leader? No.

I would be what managers or leaders would call a plant or shaper. Thats along the lines of Franklin, they are the type of people that think of the ideas and think of the big picture. Often thought to have high potential as leaders, but often don't succeed to well at actually being one. They have a thing with being irritating and oblivious to people feelings if they think the ends more than meet the means. Which is why I am not a leader, because if I put plans to action, a lot of shit would hit the fan.

Still, Scary Guy I won't get annoyed. I am from a country where the same woman has been the prime minister for the last... 7 years? Sold our air force within the first two, has fucked off all the major powers at some point, has changed women rights so much that they now have more rights than men (So much for equality ), argued that the opposition shouldn't have been voted in because he had a trade agreement set up with America; then tried to get one her self 4 months later and got rejected. Has broken the law multiple times, these include speeding for over 50kms of the speed limit and fraud (Last one likes to happen a lot). People still vote for her and actually think what she did was the right thing, tolerance isn't in short supply from where I am from.

[Scary Guy]

Sounds like your leader is about as stupid as ours.

Does she look like a monkey too?

Well at least you don't need the air force. I really can't imagine a huge war anytime soon. Still not a good thing but at least it seems peaceful where you are.

[Mizuna]

Yeah its peaceful, to bad we will end up with a huge slice of our land mass under water. Still, war might not be coming just yet, but I believe there will be one in the next 30 years over water. Still, in the next five years I will be investing in water. Screw petrol or anything else, its smarter to invest in something we need. That and trash, thank god for trash and the fact we will always produce it.

[Rayne]

I'm not a leader ... but sometimes I do stuff and people follow me.

(Sorry, I have nothing else to contribute to this thread).

[Moonlight_Phantasy]

Hitler.........he got a lot of people to do a lot of bad shit......(Although I didnt say I like him!!!!)

[Steven]

I'm not a leader ... but sometimes I do stuff and people follow me.

(Sorry, I have nothing else to contribute to this thread).

your a Mom.

Methinks you've probably been a leader for quite some time.....

[Steven]

i'm not tristworthy, but i'm told i'm pretty trystworthy.

sorry love, i really couldn't help that one

[Fierce Critter]

I'd give my answer. But Troy already thrust his fist through my skull, grabbed ahold of my brain, ripped it out of my head, wrung it through his hands and dripped my words all over his keyboard.

Lincoln & Washington. All the way.

But I have to add one. Jesus. He was a leader without truly trying to be. His present-day followers have fucked up what he started, but if you pare his message, methods & teachings down to his basic essence and forgo the watering-down via the bible & human motives, you can't ask for a better role-model for governing yourself, and thus, the governing of society, a nation, a world.

And this coming from a person who walks a narrow line between multiple religious beliefs, including pagan and non-denominational Christian, though I prefer to think of myself as a Jesusian.