Complaints About Cc Music

[DJ Saint]

... lousy set-list

Curious as to why you felt this way.

Please discuss.

[Troy Spiral (13)]

Back in the day, when full CC play lists for both Friday and Saturday were available more readily i took some time and looked through them fairly extensively.

The music that was played that was apt to piss off a larger majority of the patrons was in time-bocks and was clearly attributable to 2 specific DJs regardless of the "day" and then the following time blocks were back to the more crowd-pleasing stuff.

The difference between Friday and Saturday was fairly non-existent. People often have fairly narrow opinions based on just gut-reactions to an hour or two here and there without actually having all the information.

Nowadays i think there is only 1 DJ that seems to ignore what people want and does not realize they work for the patrons from what little i can piece together from partial "mental" play lists that i make at the club myself during given time blocks and the scant play lists i have access to.

Note: This has nothing to do with my personal feelings about the play list choices particularly. I like a lot of stuff that your average CCer gets pissed off about. BUT i do think that DJs need to realize its a business, and you need to play what it is that the patrons want to hear.

Personal insult posts about specific DJs will be removed per usual just like any other rude crap. (seems to always happen when this subject is brought up, just a pre-emptive comment)

[Hellion]

Back in the day, when full CC play lists for both Friday and Saturday were available more readily i took some time and looked through them fairly extensively.

The difference between Friday and Saturday was fairly non-existent. People often have fairly narrow opinions based on just gut-reactions to an hour or two here and there without actually having all the information.

The music that was played that was apt to piss off a larger majority of the patrons was in time-bocks and was clearly attributable to 2 specific DJs regardless of the "day" and then the following time blocks were back to the more crowd-pleasing stuff.

Nowadays i think there is only 1 DJ that seems to ignore what people want and does not realize they work for the patrons from what little i can piece together from partial "mental" play lists that i make at the club myself during given time blocks and the scant play lists i have access to.

Note: This has nothing to do with my personal feelings about the play list choices particularly. I like a lot of stuff that your average CCer gets pissed off about. BUT i do think that DJs need to realize its a business, and you need to play what it is that the patrons want to hear.

Personal insult posts about specific DJs will be removed per usual just like any other rude crap. (seems to always happen when this subject is brought up, just a pre-emptive comment)

Agreed

[Fierce Critter]

The stuff I like to hear at CC is the stuff most DGN'ers complain is played too much.

Wumscut. KMFDM. Apop. Wolfsheim.

I like it 'cause I can dance to it. And I like melody with my oontz.

If that stuff gets played, people like me are happy, and people who want to hear new stuff with an industrial bent are going to be unhappy.

If the new, arrythmic industrial stuff is played, I'm going to be unhappy but those who like it are going to be happy.

I don't think you can please everybody. I feel sorry actually for the CC DJ's. They are supposed to keep the patrons happy, which I do believe hampers their want to play new and/or unusual stuff.

It's a hard row to hoe, I'm sure.

[crunchy_pickle (5)]

I've found anymore that the only sure way to have a song played is to give the DJ some extra cash. Personally, I don't mind this, but on the same token it would be nice to hear some better music once in a while. Some of the newer more clubby stuff they tend to play just seems really out of place........

[Hellion]

It would be nice to hear other stuff like..

Fields of The Nephilim

Front 242

songs like Black Planet from Sisters of Mercy

80's new wave

some other songs long forgotten about,like "Change" from Tears for Fears,which does have a dark sound to it

more variety would be nice,just my suggestion.

[Fierce Critter]

It would be nice to hear other stuff like..

Fields of The Nephilim

Front 242

songs like Black Planet from Sisters of Mercy

80's new wave

some other songs long forgotten about,like "Change" from Tears for Fears,which does have a dark sound to it

more variety would be nice,just my suggestion.

I love that TFF song. There are a lot of songs out there with a similar vibe. Black Planet and other SOM songs, Siouxsie & the Banshees stuff, etc.

I think, however, that the crowd at CC is significantly enough younger than you and I, Crank, that that would clear the dancefloor about as equally as some of the industrial others want to hear.

I will also add that I'd probably rather hear some more experimental industrial and other non-melodic songs than a lot of the techno I hear played some nights. Gads, techno is boring for it's repetitiveness.

[Troy Spiral (13)]

The stuff I like to hear at CC is the stuff most DGN'ers complain is played too much.

Wumscut. KMFDM. Apop. Wolfsheim.

I like it 'cause I can dance to it. And I like melody with my oontz.

If that stuff gets played, people like me are happy, and people who want to hear new stuff with an industrial bent are going to be unhappy.

If the new, arrythmic industrial stuff is played, I'm going to be unhappy but those who like it are going to be happy.

I don't think you can please everybody. I feel sorry actually for the CC DJ's. They are supposed to keep the patrons happy, which I do believe hampers their want to play new and/or unusual stuff.

It's a hard row to hoe, I'm sure.

I'd agree with the "feeling" of this post, but really most CCers/DGNers don't complain about that stuff getting played. Thats the stuff most want to hear. Its the minority (but usually very vocal) that complains about such stuff.

The (fairly) silent majority is what pays the bills. Not the small minority of "angry goths".

[Fierce Critter]

I'd agree with the "feeling" of this post, but really most CCers/DGNers don't complain about that stuff getting played. Thats the stuff most want to hear. Its the minority (but usually very vocal) that complains about such stuff.

The (fairly) silent majority is what pays the bills. Not the small minority of "angry goths".

You're probably right about the number of people who like that sort of stuff.

Perhaps I'm reacting to the amount of bitching that goes on about the music played, but it's probably the same people bringing it up over and over.

[wilhelm k]

It would be nice to hear other stuff like..

Fields of The Nephilim

Front 242

songs like Black Planet from Sisters of Mercy

80's new wave

some other songs long forgotten about,like "Change" from Tears for Fears,which does have a dark sound to it

more variety would be nice,just my suggestion.

come to the 1st night of censor this coming thursday =)

on the cc note...

my only issue with city club is the sound system. has the sound always been that bad in there?

i just moved back to detroit 2 weeks a go, so i am unaware of the sound systems history.

[Fierce Critter]

I think most people who complain about the sound system either have a finely tuned ear or work with sound systems themselves in some capacity, either soundmen/women or Dj's, etc.

I like a good sounding car stereo. But I've never had a problem with the sound at CC.

[Hellion]

I love that TFF song. There are a lot of songs out there with a similar vibe. Black Planet and other SOM songs, Siouxsie & the Banshees stuff, etc.

I think, however, that the crowd at CC is significantly enough younger than you and I, Crank, that that would clear the dancefloor about as equally as some of the industrial others want to hear.

I will also add that I'd probably rather hear some more experimental industrial and other non-melodic songs than a lot of the techno I hear played some nights. Gads, techno is boring for it's repetitiveness.

Your right,over half the people that go to CC are only half our age.LOL!!

at least the CD player in my car is under my control,LOL!!

[Fierce Critter]

I really feel like CC needs to be two separate clubs.

The dancefloor should be just for that - dance. Play the EBM stuff there.

And do something with the rest of the club to turn it into one large room or something and play oldskool goth there, at an enjoyable listening level yet where people can make conversation.

I know, I know - HIggens won't ever put a dime into renovating/changing that place. But I can dream...

[nilhil_glory]

personally i like almost anything... anything that isnt overplayed...i want to hear different stuff week in and week out..sure you can have the paddings you need but if i dont hear anything different constantly i get way bored with it ive had this discussion with mr noble at necto about it when he dj'd there a few weeks ago and his reasoning of heavily padding new songs with staples makes sense however week in and week out i do not want to hear the same damn song Almost three days in a row if your gonna play that same band fine just dont pick the same damn song throw something completly off the wall in there.....unlike somepeople i know i cannot listen to dead enough for life 3 days almost in a row week in and out...its uber boring yaknow?(just an example of one of the many songs by bands that you could play different stuff by)

as for style i dont really care

be it front 242, apoptygma berzerk,KMFDM<ESPECIALLY,covenant,ministry,combichrist, fictional and one,sisters of mercy,tkk, throw some different tracks out there

[Hellion]

I really feel like CC needs to be two separate clubs.

The dancefloor should be just for that - dance. Play the EBM stuff there.

And do something with the rest of the club to turn it into one large room or something and play oldskool goth there, at an enjoyable listening level yet where people can make conversation.

I know, I know - HIggens won't ever put a dime into renovating/changing that place. But I can dream...

Excellent idea FC,but yeah its only a dream,shit that slumlord wont even replace a broken light switch with exposed wiring.

[know_buddy_kares]

Going on what fierce critter metioned about it being two seperate clubs...

Since city club is run by a douche bag cheap ass pedophile slum lord (Higgins), the club will never see this but...

put in a door to the dance floor to seperate the lounge area and help stop some of the club dance music from echoing into the lounge area, and then play some of the older stuff in the lounge area, and stuff that's not really good for dancing but still good tunes, some of the older stuff like what Darque Mettalian (crank) had mentioned. I think that would be really the only way to please EVERYBODY.

Cuz if you play one style, group A is going to bitch..

if you play the older style, group B is gonna bitch...

if you try to mix both, then both groups are going to bitch.

so it would kinda be a seperation but hey, that's just me, i know it'll not happen.

[DJ Saint]

OK, first of all Troy took it upon himself to make this a new thread off of any existing post (http://www.detroitgothic.net/t17392.html)

so now it sorta kinda looks like I'm the one who started a post, but let it be known it was someone else mentioning "lousy setlist" and not me for the 1 zillionth time pleading for more acceptance of new music played at City Club.

no worries it may get more attention and intelligent discussion here in a seperate post than it would hidden behind the other one.

Back in the day...

Any post that starts with "Back in the Day" should have an automatic delete function.

Back in the day... walked uphill to City Club, both ways... barefoot in the snow!

Nowadays i think there is only 1 DJ that seems to ignore what people want and does not realize they work for the patrons from what little i can piece together from partial "mental" play lists that i make at the club myself during given time blocks and the scant play lists i have access to.

Ignoring or being innovative? It's all perspective - you can look at that 1 DJ as being the lone soul who actually takes the risk to try to introduce new stuff, get it worked into constant rotation perhaps and show that there is progression to be had in this scene. Of course the DJ doesn't have to be elitist about this and a good DJ should realize that the NEW can and should mix with the old classics, one genre with the next. And if it were not for ANY DJ taking risk the patrons would be stuck in that "back in the day" 1987, 1997 rut. There are great classics out there but there's also a flood of new material being released constantly from artist who are going to be the next new genre leaders and lifeblood ('ello Rotersand). Any DJ needs to be able to hear a song and realize it’s potential. I know one DJ who would play Combichrist long before any other DJ in town. Pennies, bolts, empty water bottles, deathe threats (seriously) would be thrown at him but he kept playing them and now look - Combichrist is CONSTANTLY on the request sheets. Because that DJ took the risk and got Combichrist to work, that DJ will continue to try to have the same success with new artist.

So are DJ's supposed to be on autopilot? Or maybe they can think for themselves and challenge the patrons occassionally with something new? Rhetorical questions...

BOTTOM LINE IS THIS - Can't please everybody all the time. It's MUSIC people - at most 5 minutes of something you might either really enjoy or really HATE. Not the end of the world like some girl last night thought just because she didn't hear her song... Christ almighty, like you've forgotten how Out Out's "Admire the Question" sounds.

A little open-mindedness is all that's asked. One just might discover a track/band in there that is awesome.

I'd like to think all the CC DJ's offer enough variety in a night. It's very tough because the club has been there for 19+ years and think of the catalog of music that has been played in that time and then there's also the need to move forward musically as well... thoughts?

Note: This has nothing to do with my personal feelings about the play list choices particularly. I like a lot of stuff that your average CCer gets pissed off about. BUT i do think that DJs need to realize its a business, and you need to play what it is that the patrons want to hear.

Sure DJ'ing is a business especially if your a wedding dj. But the good and successful CLUB dj's don't always view

it as strictly business. That's such a narrow perspective to have on it. I have DJ friends from L.A. to New York to London who weekly pack their clubs and are constantly challenging their patrons by giving them something new, unexpected and NOT playing the same overplayed selections. DJ's who are CONSTANTLY concerned with pleasing their patrons ALL THE TIME (let's call them request DJ's) should step aside and be REPLACED BY JUKEBOXES. Reading a crowd is essential sure but "needing" to play ONLY what patrons want to hear is degrading to any DJ who should have the skill and foresight to also let their audience hear the overwhelming volume of what's out there. Again strategically mix the new in with the old for a variety and that is a winning combination.

anyways, Troy and I certainly don't see eye to eye on that "DJ'ing is a business" claim I'm sure. As someone who has DJ'ed college radio, internet radio, clubs for 10+ years, travelled all over the US dj'ing and spun festivals in the U.K. (twice) - I just wanted to bring my very broad knowledge and experiences into light. I mean no ill-will or dis-respect to Troy.

TO EVERYONE:

Hope I'm not coming off as a dick or elitist here or worse. Really appreciate the open discussion on this even if the music at City Club has been discussed to death for years upon years. Personally I grow tired very quickly with things (art, books, food) therefore I embrace change pretty quickly and that spills over into DJ'ing naturally. There's times when the music complaints are justified and yeah I DO take it ALL into consideration, I love the discussion on it all even if it irritates me sometimes. Likewise the discussion motivates me as a DJ to challenge you girls and guys a bit and will do so. Think of it like this - What if every painter out there painted the exact same thing, what if every write wrote the exact same story?

I digress...

ALWAYS appreciate the support and those with open minds.

and DEATHKEY!

[DJ Saint]

Ah, I'm sorry sir. Please don't take offense. I just felt that it was far too heavy on the current noisey-ebm inspired trend of sounding like combichrist/wumpscut (I don't even know the names for most of these bands, but they all sound similiar and I don't like them). But that stuff get asses shaking, so this might just be me being a softie here. I'm not arguing for a either a return to old school goth (sisters, nephilim) or playing only Covenant and VNV. Having a good setlist is a delicate balancing act which normally pulled off very well on saturdays from what I have observed. Just too, too much distortion this time.

No worries! THIS is exactly the type of reply I would like to hear. You were specific about what it was that bugged you.

I had recently gotten a few new tracks yesterday in the mail with that noisy-crunchy vein and wanted to see their reactions at City last night. One seemed to work the other didn't. Yeah perhaps too distorted. Will certainly keep that in mind for next week.

All the best

-Marc

[know_buddy_kares]

Too...

many...

words!!!!

*bleeds to death*

Whether you like the suggestions, opinions, and constructive criticism or not, it all boils down to one thing...

be innovative all you want, but if the clubbers think your spinning sucks, then your spinning sucks in the standard of what they expect to hear. you may have better luck somewhere else.

Things evolve, because for those who think the stuff now sounds the same and it all sucks compared to your music "back in the day" remember this... your music "back in the day" when it was fresh and at it's prime, sucked compared to someone elses music "back in their day" and so on, and so on.

True that the goth scene has been getting a vaster range of ages now than it ever has, and such i think that music should be mixed up a bit more, but more segregated than blended type of mix.

There was this place in North Carolina with a cheezy name "The Party Zone" But they had 2 rooms, that were connected but seperate, one room they played the goth techno, that was probably the same as what City was playing back then a few years ago, and they also had a hip hop room where they played well.. hip hop and stuff. And it worked ok, hip hoppers didn't fuck with the candy kids, and the candy kids didn't fuck with the hip hoppers.

That's what I would like to see happen between the dance floor and lounge area. Help soundproof a bit more between the two, play gramps's music in the lounge area, and play whipper snapper's music in the dance floor, everyone's happy, the end.

[FarrIL]

People, is it THAT hard to tolerate a little old mixed with the new?

I enjoy listening to new Combichrist, but for pity's sake, what about old Puppy? Flock of Seagulls? Orgy? Apop? KMFDM? Dude, what the hell ever happened to Christfuck by Wumpscut?!

I want a better mix of the old versus the new. I dont care if the DJ is unable to beat-match Siouxsie to Suicide Commando, I just want to hear VAH-REYE-EH-TEE

[know_buddy_kares]

People, is it THAT hard to tolerate a little old mixed with the new?

I enjoy listening to new Combichrist, but for pity's sake, what about old Puppy? Flock of Seagulls? Orgy? Apop? KMFDM? Dude, what the hell ever happened to Christfuck by Wumpscut?!

I want a better mix of the old versus the new. I dont care if the DJ is unable to beat-match Siouxsie to Suicide Commando, I just want to hear VAH-REYE-EH-TEE

All the bands you mentioned are cool except flock of seaguls..

I really hope they, and their retarded hair styles get sucked into a jet engine and end that horrible noise they loosely call music.

[DJDeadbeat]

Once upon a time, they were a goth club.

Unfortunately...once upon a time.

All I am going to say.

Nice for an cyber/EBM club though!

[phee]

come to the 1st night of censor this coming thursday =)

on the cc note...

my only issue with city club is the sound system. has the sound always been that bad in there?

i just moved back to detroit 2 weeks a go, so i am unaware of the sound systems history.

The sound system is also my biggest gripe.... I would love my favorite club to also have the best sound.... but right now Necto's definitly wins for sound...

[nilhil_glory]

the only chance for that sound system to get replaced is if we break in on a weekday and change the speakers the wiring and the amp ourselevs

anyone wanna bring paint wood and nails while were at it? =)

[Fierce Critter]

I've heard said before so will repeat...

City Club was never declared a strictly goth club.

Or a strictly any type of club.

However, over time, a certain type of music has "settled in" and become somewhat expected on the ballroom.

And like it or not, that appears to be EBM/danceable synthpop/darkwave.

Do I think Dj's should be able to introduce new stuff?

Sure. And I'd damn well welcome it. I still like Wumpscut, Apop, Covenant - all the "boring old stuff".

And I'd like to hear new stuff, too - but in that same style.

I think that's what others would welcome, too.

I think if you try to play anything that varies too much from the currently "expected" formula - there will be backlash. It's too jarring.

Which is why I think the only solution is a separate place to play different styles of music.

The general CC crowd doesn't seem to like much in the way of industrial or noize. I think you're swimming heavily upstream if you think you can work too much - if any - of that style in sucessfully.

I think the only reason you get away with stuff like A Flock of Seagulls, Sisters of Mercy, Shriekback and other similar sounds is because it's still got melody, and a halfway danceable beat. I think the current crowd wouldn't miss too much of that, to be honest.

And remember - I like that stuff. I just don't think it fits with the direction the club is going right now.

Perhaps a solution would be to keep to the EBM/danceable darkstuff on Saturday, but make Friday more experimental. Play a variety - oldskool goth, industrial, noize, new stuff - and see what people like. Maybe actually go to the effort to poll people. Get out of the booth or get some assistants to get onto the floor and ask people "would you want to hear this again? If not, why? Would you come on Saturday if more of this sort of thing were played?"

etc.

Sure wouldn't hurt, would it?

Hell, I'd come on Fridays for that sort of thing.