Don't Say "christmas"

[phee]

Holy Moly you make posts even longer than me. you must not be a smoker. My inhale is shorter than yours.

anyway....you mentioned winning - winning what? nobody wins in here and EVERYBODY gets agitated at me, its old hat. I didint realize it was needed though, you threw me on that one.

next anyway: i dont think ANYBODY in here is intentionally shooting merry christmas bombs at you whilst knowing yoru faith is different. to me thats an argument that does not apply.

No they are not launching merry christmas bombs at the eternal.... but I do see people arguing that they can wish merry christmas to everybody and everything they wish without anyone taking issue... I agree with the first part, one should be able to wish merry christmas to everybody and everything they wish, what I disagree with is the fact that some people believe that no one should have any problem/negative reaction to it...

If I were an Atheist (which I am not) and I went around on the 22nd of January (picked at random) every year wishing everyone "Happy God Doesn't Exist Day, no one would argue my "right" to do so, but for those of you who aren't atheists... well you also have the right to take issue.

Follow?

[Gaf The Horse With Tears]

I view it as an extension of the Euro-centric view that we have in this country that everyone's like us,

....or they should be.

That is NOT just a Euro-centric view. That my friend, is a People view. You get a large group of people together with landscape, genetics and ethics in common and they get funny ideas about being better than people that are not them.... then they remember they have bits of metal with pointy parts. Now, you toss some kinda of religion and or politics into that mix... and you have a culture with a purpose.

And you're essentially wishing them a happy holiday that they DON'T celebrate.

Your point? People do that. Again, it's not just Westeren cultures.

I feel like it's wishing me Happy Birthday on your birthday.

again, Your point? Only the person who is having a birthday is sopposed to have a good day? I actually do say happy birthday to as a greeting on my birthday. That way, I have an in to mentioning that it's my birthday and WHAM, I'm the center of attention again.

Course, I could do that with a webcam picture post.

[the eternal]

Gaf---

Only the person who is having a birthday is sopposed to have a good day? I actually do say happy birthday to as a greeting on my birthday. That way, I have an in to mentioning that it's my birthday and WHAM, I'm the center of attention again.

Course, I could do that with a webcam picture post.

Only if you do one with you biting your lip. (inside joke, sorry)

[Nienna]

I hate X-Mas because it seems to make more people feel bad than good. (Myself included) That being said, since saying "Happy Yule" to people would possibly open a whole can of worms that I'd rather leave closed, I say "Happy Holidays!". I however do not feel offended that people say Merry X-Mas. I just feel like it's a lie if I say it myself.

[torn asunder]

just 'cuz i'm feelin' saucy!!

santa badger!!!

[Scales]

I'm not offended by holidays, but I'm pretty apathetic towards most of them. I find winter in general to only be more depressing with so much enormous public celebration. Regardless of what your celebrating and dressing up with colors it doesn't change the fact that everything outside is ugly, cold, barren, and dead.

Popular holidays can be looked at as a capitalist/religious perversion of society's inability to celebrate itself and everyday life. I find the aspect of prescribing to happy things while the world around you is cold and dead says something of cultural inadequacy, or an inability to cope with the natural reality of the season.

[Steven]

I'm not offended by holidays, but I'm pretty apathetic towards most of them. I find winter in general to only be more depressing with so much enormous public celebration. Regardless of what your celebrating and dressing up with colors it doesn't change the fact that everything outside is ugly, cold, barren, and dead.

Popular holidays can be looked at as a capitalist/religious perversion of society's inability to celebrate itself and everyday life. I find the aspect of prescribing to happy things while the world around you is cold and dead says something of cultural inadequacy, or an inability to cope with the natural reality of the season.

errrr....right. somehow I missed all of that. (some of you folks are so wonderfully colorful in creating black)

[Steven]

No they are not launching merry christmas bombs at the eternal.... but I do see people arguing that they can wish merry christmas to everybody and everything they wish without anyone taking issue... I agree with the first part, one should be able to wish merry christmas to everybody and everything they wish, what I disagree with is the fact that some people believe that no one should have any problem/negative reaction to it...

If I were an Atheist (which I am not) and I went around on the 22nd of January (picked at random) every year wishing everyone "Happy God Doesn't Exist Day, no one would argue my "right" to do so, but for those of you who aren't atheists... well you also have the right to take issue.

Follow?

of course I follow Phee - but you guys have to go to suck extreme scenarios to prove a point that I still think is inveitbaly pretty thin - this argument of damages being done, I cant help it - I see this as a general weakness of fortitude in dealing with a pretty harmless social celebration.....its just pretty silly to me man, sorry but it is. All of you guys that are depressed on Christmas eve will be just as depressed the following tuesday, no greater harm is done to you by my celebration of christmas, and no gtreater harm is done to you (in my worthles opinion at least) by somebody INNOCENTLY sending a spoken blessing in your direction. I see a whole bunch of defense over the right to rptect yrouselves from....pretty much nothing really. You will all still shop in the stores that I bought Xmas presents for to fulfill your neccesities, none of you will renounce your american citizenship, etc etc etc....

its just Christmas man, lighten up people, tuesday will still come.....

[phee]

of course I follow Phee - but you guys have to go to suck extreme scenarios to prove a point that I still think is inveitbaly pretty thin

What is a "suck extreme"... and I think it's only sounding thin because you disagree with it...

But if your remember, I am trying to defend both sides from the extreme.

[Steven]

What is a "suck extreme"... and I think it's only sounding thin because you disagree with it...

But if your remember, I am trying to defend both sides from the extreme.

in this cas we'll apply "SUCK" to my typing.

I had meant to write "SUCH" extremes....anyway carry on....

[Gaf The Horse With Tears]

Those extreme points.

Society is like a machine. A great and vast complicated machine. Each of us play our part in that machine so each of us has to be different. A machine made completely of all the same parts doesn't do anything. It takes all kinds of parts to make that machine work. But, a part can be too different. it can be so different that it's not part of the machine anymore. It can either adapt and change enough to be part of the machine or it can be left out. It's not the machines fault that a part descent fit in. Why should the machine change all it's parts for that one piece? But the part can't help being anything but what it is. What else could it be than itself?

[nilhil_glory]

<-- suddenly feels an urge to pull out her Godspell CD

how did i not see this ...

srry bout this threadjack but seeing as this is the only occasion where i should ever pull this out of my closet from my highschool theater days

i had too

[littlepinkkitty]

I am a Jew and i love being Jewish. It doesn't bother me to hear Merry Christmas. People are just trying to celbrate their holiday and they aren't doing it to offend anyone. I have always liked looking at decorations and i love the cute christmas penguins they have at stores....i got three this year. As a kid i actually kind of wanted to have a christmas to see what it was like. I grew up lighting a menorah and i still do it today. I love Hanukkah it is awesome....but i still have always wondered what it would be like to run to yhe tree early in the morning and rip open gifts. I think i went to santa when i was like three and sat on his lap. I believe i asked for a bagel for christmas. Anyways what i am getting too i like this season and i dont mind hearing merry christmas....people should be nice and greet people in such a manner all year round.

[Fierce Critter]

how did i not see this ...

srry bout this threadjack but seeing as this is the only occasion where i should ever pull this out of my closet from my highschool theater days

i had too

Oh, awesome. :D I love it. :D You seriously should wear it to CC.

I've only performed a couple songs acoustic when I played out. Was never in the play. It had been performed at my high school years before I went there - they had the logo painted on the cafeteria/theater wall along with logos from other plays they'd performed.

My sister did have a part in it in college. And prior to that, had been into it and used to sit around the living room with a friend playing the songs from it acoustically. I pretty much was inspired by her.

Still, LOVE the movie, but prefer the broadway soundtrack.

/threadjack

[Fierce Critter]

I wonder something. But I think I'm going to take it into a new thread...

[the eternal]

I am a Jew and I love being Jewish. It doesn't bother me to hear Merry Christmas. People are just trying to celebrate their holiday and they aren't doing it to offend anyone. I have always liked looking at decorations and I love the cute Christmas penguins they have at stores....I got three this year.

As a kid I actually kind of wanted to have a christmas to see what it was like.

I grew up lighting a menorah and I still do it today. I love Hanukkah it is awesome....but I still have always wondered what it would be like to run to the tree early in the morning and rip open gifts. I think I went to Santa when I was like three and sat on his lap. I believe I asked for a bagel for Christmas. Anyways what I am getting too I like this season and I don't mind hearing Merry Christmas....people should be nice and greet people in such a manner all year round.

That is so awesome that you feel that way!

You should move to Frankenmuth.

The people are friendly and it's CHRISTmastime all year round, just like they say in the billboards.

Having been there I feel a little different than you, but hey that's cool.

You know what they say--two Jews, three opinions.

We're a very intelligent, but diversely opinionated bunch

And my post obviously, was not intended for people like your self, comfortable in your faith, and immune to any implications of the Christianity-laced good cheer.

My post was for the kids, of whatever faith

--Muslim, Atheism, etc who felt embraced as people in this country but felt like they were lesser-than, because they didn't embrace the prevailing religion or celebrate Christmas (which, you, yourself found quite appealing)

The ones that grow up feeling like they want to be part of the norm.

They want to be accepted.

They want to fit in.

And every time someone wishes them "Merry Christmas" they're reminded they're not part of it.

And for many, like members of my family that converted, like friends that had dumbass chanuka bushes,

it makes you just want to give up the last vestiges of your heritage and get out.

So, you can be like everyone else. And fully accepted.

Again, as I said earlier, it's awesome that so many of you feel so much excitement and love that you want to share.

This was given considerable recognition in Harvard law Professor Alan M. Dershowitz's book

The Vanishing American Jew when he notes that the threat today comes not from antisemitism but from those who would "kill us with kindness - by assimilating us, marrying us, and merging with us out of respect, admiration, and even love."

(Of course, he's never been to the thumb--but that's another story entirely)

I like our differences.

I want EVERYTHING.

I would never be offended at different religious displays, because we're opening ourselves to other religions, other experiences.

I think if there was a display of everything, we'd all learn and appreciate more.

Maybe Scary Guy could come up with an atheist symbol. (a circle with a line through it, perhaps??)

I just don't like people making assumptions on MY affiliations with a certain one.

So, I'm not horribly offended by the term.

You could say MC until the cows come home on here and you won't rustle my feathers,

(In fact I'm stilll waiting for Creature to put the words Merry Christmas in tree-form)

but as much as it may be an ever so slight inconvenience,

the fact remains by wishing everyone Merry Christmas you are

implying that we all celebrate it (or should).

Since we're not all Christians, why do it???

WE SHOULD BE A TOSSED SALAD NOT A MELTING POT.

Just my $10.02

One more thing-nothing against the holiday but----

If I was told that I had to hear people like Michael Bolton, Celine Dion, and Gloria Estefan kill the Holiday classics ALL year round--- I would fucking shoot myself in the head IMMEDIATELY.

[Fierce Critter]

the fact remains by wishing everyone Merry Christmas you are

implying that we all celebrate it (or should).

No, no, no.

I'm not assuming or implying anything when I say "Merry Christmas" to anyone.

I am quite simply wishing someone happiness. Period.

I think you attribute waaaaay more motive to the practice.

And I'm sorry, but I'm not going to abbreviate and start telling people, "MERRY!!!" Because that would be retarded.

[Steven]

No, no, no.

I'm not assuming or implying anything when I say "Merry Christmas" to anyone.

I am quite simply wishing someone happiness. Period.

I think you attribute waaaaay more motive to the practice.

And I'm sorry, but I'm not going to abbreviate and start telling people, "MERRY!!!" Because that would be retarded.

ahhhhhhhhh perfection this post was.

[Fierce Critter]

ahhhhhhhhh perfection this post was.

Not if you consider the fact that using the term "retarded" is actually massively un-PC. And this thread, really, is all about being PC when it comes right down to it.

<--had a friend in jr. high with a sister who was retarded. She once did an essay in class about how people really don't know how insulting and rude they're being when they use the term "retarded." It's always bothered me since that day.

But I'm flawed. Shrugs.

[ttogreh]

This is why I think the greeting should be used carefully. Many people attribute more to four syllables than the people using them. I DON'T CARE WHO YOU ARE, YOU DESERVE TO HAVE A GOOD DAY ON THE 25TH OF DECEMBER. So, on the 25th of December, I am going to wish you a Merry Christmas. On the 24th, I am going to wish you a good day. Indeed, my most often used parting words to folks during this year are...

"Drive safe."

Moreover, the idea that casual users of the greeting are committing an act of cultural imperialism is quite specious. Cultural minorities can indeed be swamped and overlooked during this time of year. Indeed, a Creche on municipal property does indeed imply an endorsement of the Christian holiday. However, I have always contended that putting up a Menorah or a Snowman along with the Creche has seemed shallow and pandering.

A Creche perhaps a week before the 25th, a Menorah DURING Hanukkah, and Ramadan Lanterns DURING Ramadan help to recognize about half of humanity. A municipality with a large African-American population could put up a Kinara. To round everything out, Diwali could be observed. Everybody likes fireworks.

I don't think the public square should be secular. I think we should always strive to INCLUDE cultural heritages, and the push to ask people to not say Merry Christmas, Happy Hanukkah, or to be kind to their neighbors, however they see the face of God... is just asking for trouble.

Oh, and as for the salad bowl analogy... salads rot. Alloys forged from different metals are (sometimes) stronger than the individual metals they are comprised of. We are Americans living together in a republic founded on the principles of freedom of expression. If I get to sing carols... you get to blow on a Shofar, eh?

[Hellion]

That is so awesome that you feel that way!

You should move to Frankenmuth.

The people are friendly and it's CHRISTmastime all year round, just like they say in the billboards.

Having been there I feel a little different than you, but hey that's cool.

You know what they say--two Jews, three opinions.

We're a very intelligent, but diversely opinionated bunch

And my post obviously, was not intended for people like your self, comfortable in your faith, and immune to any implications of the Christianity-laced good cheer.

My post was for the kids, of whatever faith

--Muslim, Atheism, etc who felt embraced as people in this country but felt like they were lesser-than, because they didn't embrace the prevailing religion or celebrate Christmas (which, you, yourself found quite appealing)

The ones that grow up feeling like they want to be part of the norm.

They want to be accepted.

They want to fit in.

And every time someone wishes them "Merry Christmas" they're reminded they're not part of it.

And for many, like members of my family that converted, like friends that had dumbass chanuka bushes,

it makes you just want to give up the last vestiges of your heritage and get out.

So, you can be like everyone else. And fully accepted.

Again, as I said earlier, it's awesome that so many of you feel so much excitement and love that you want to share.

This was given considerable recognition in Harvard law Professor Alan M. Dershowitz's book

The Vanishing American Jew when he notes that the threat today comes not from antisemitism but from those who would "kill us with kindness - by assimilating us, marrying us, and merging with us out of respect, admiration, and even love."

(Of course, he's never been to the thumb--but that's another story entirely)

I like our differences.

I want EVERYTHING.

I would never be offended at different religious displays, because we're opening ourselves to other religions, other experiences.

I think if there was a display of everything, we'd all learn and appreciate more.

Maybe Scary Guy could come up with an atheist symbol. (a circle with a line through it, perhaps??)

I just don't like people making assumptions on MY affiliations with a certain one.

So, I'm not horribly offended by the term.

You could say MC until the cows come home on here and you won't rustle my feathers,

(In fact I'm stilll waiting for Creature to put the words Merry Christmas in tree-form)

but as much as it may be an ever so slight inconvenience,

the fact remains by wishing everyone Merry Christmas you are

implying that we all celebrate it (or should).

Since we're not all Christians, why do it???

WE SHOULD BE A TOSSED SALAD NOT A MELTING POT.

Just my $10.02

One more thing-nothing against the holiday but----

If I was told that I had to hear people like Michael Bolton, Celine Dion, and Gloria Estefan kill the Holiday classics ALL year round--- I would fucking shoot myself in the head IMMEDIATELY.

Beware of WNIC they are really good at playing that crap,ppl at work know better than to put that station on at all.

[Gaf The Horse With Tears]

This is why I think the greeting should be used carefully. Many people attribute more to four syllables than the people using them. I DON'T CARE WHO YOU ARE, YOU DESERVE TO HAVE A GOOD DAY ON THE 25TH OF DECEMBER. So, on the 25th of December, I am going to wish you a Merry Christmas. On the 24th, I am going to wish you a good day. Indeed, my most often used parting words to folks during this year are...

"Drive safe."

Moreover, the idea that casual users of the greeting are committing an act of cultural imperialism is quite specious. Cultural minorities can indeed be swamped and overlooked during this time of year. Indeed, a Creche on municipal property does indeed imply an endorsement of the Christian holiday. However, I have always contended that putting up a Menorah or a Snowman along with the Creche has seemed shallow and pandering.

A Creche perhaps a week before the 25th, a Menorah DURING Hanukkah, and Ramadan Lanterns DURING Ramadan help to recognize about half of humanity. A municipality with a large African-American population could put up a Kinara. To round everything out, Diwali could be observed. Everybody likes fireworks.

I don't think the public square should be secular. I think we should always strive to INCLUDE cultural heritages, and the push to ask people to not say Merry Christmas, Happy Hanukkah, or to be kind to their neighbors, however they see the face of God... is just asking for trouble.

Oh, and as for the salad bowl analogy... salads rot. Alloys forged from different metals are (sometimes) stronger than the individual metals they are comprised of. We are Americans living together in a republic founded on the principles of freedom of expression. If I get to sing carols... you get to blow on a Shofar, eh?

For once, same page.

[Steven]

This is why I think the greeting should be used carefully. Many people attribute more to four syllables than the people using them. I DON'T CARE WHO YOU ARE, YOU DESERVE TO HAVE A GOOD DAY ON THE 25TH OF DECEMBER. So, on the 25th of December, I am going to wish you a Merry Christmas. On the 24th, I am going to wish you a good day.

um, only if said receiver has been pre-programmed to be defensive and non trusting.

and I just dont have time to cover all of that with everybody.

again I return to the nitty gritty: CHOOSE to be offended, or choose to be blessed. you got a 50/50 chance right there.

[nilhil_glory]

due to this heated discussion i thought id bring about some holiday cheer

[phee]

A Holiday Message From Snog!!!

A timely message of hope from Snog.

From us ("the wishor") to you ("the wishee") please accept without obligation, implied or implicit, our best wishes for an environmentally conscious, socially responsible, politically correct, low stress, non-addictive, gender neutral, celebration of the summer solstice holiday, practiced within the most enjoyable traditions of the religious persuasion of your choice, or secular practices of your choice, with respect for the religious/secular persuasions and/or traditions of others, or their choice not to practice religious or secular traditions at all.

We wish you a financially successful, personally fulfilling and medically uncomplicated recognition of the onset of the generally accepted calendar year 2008, but with due respect for the calendars of choice of other cultures or sects, and having regard to the race, creed, colour, age, physical ability, religious faith, choice of computer platform or sexual preference of the wishee.

By accepting this greeting you are bound by these terms that:- This greeting is subject to further clarification or withdrawal. This greeting is freely transferable provided that no alteration shall be made to the original greeting and that the proprietary rights of the wishor are acknowledged.

This greeting implies no promise by the wishor to actually implement any of the wishes.

This greeting may not be enforceable in certain jurisdictions and/or the restrictions herein may not be binding upon certain wishees in certain jurisdictions and is revocable at the sole discretion of the wishor.

This greeting is warranted to perform as reasonably may be expected within the usual application of good tidings, for a period of one year or until the issuance of a subsequent holiday greeting, whichever comes first.

The wishor warrants this greeting only for the limited replacement of this wish or issuance of a new wish at the sole discretion of the wishor. Any references in this greeting to "The Lord", "Father Christmas", "Our Savior", "Rudolph the red nosed reindeer" or any other festive figures, whether actual or fictitious, dead or alive, shall not imply any endorsement by or from them in respect of this greeting, and all proprietary rights in any referenced third party names and images are hereby acknowledged.

Yours without obligation (implicit or implied),

Snog