What is racism?

[Gaf The Horse With Tears]

No wonder Detroit has such a budget crunch...

And Mark... I think singling out Greeks is bigotry, not racism. Neither one is good.

Speaking of mafia... my brother told me stories from lawyer buddies of his about the Detroit mafia. I can't verify anything, but THEY took it's existence seriously. Whether they were Greek, Italian or Martian, I have no idea.

Greek is it's own Ethnicity. The country of Greece is 98% Greek and 2% Other.

Racism is Racism.

[Msterbeau]

Greek is it's own Ethnicity. The country of Greece is 98% Greek and 2% Other.

Racism is Racism.

My point was that I didn't consider prejudice against ethnicity/nation of origin racism.

An excerpt rom Wiki:

"Ethnicity and race are related concepts in that both are usually defined in terms of shared genealogy. Often, ethnicity also connotes shared cultural, linguistic, behavioral or religious traits. For example, to call oneself Jewish, Arab or Hispanic one immediately invokes a clutch of linguistic, religious, cultural and racial features that are held to be common within each ethnic category. Such broad ethnic categories have also been termed macroethnicity to distinguish them from smaller more subjective ethnic features, often termed microethnicity. Race, by contrast, refers to "some concentrations, as relative to frequency and distribution, of hereditary particles (genes) and physical characters, which appear, fluctuate, and often disappear in the course of time by reason of geographic and or cultural isolation." In 1950, the UNESCO statement The Race Question, signed by some of the internationally renowned scholars of the time (including Ashley Montagu, Claude Lévi-Strauss, Gunnar Myrdal, Julian Huxley, etc.), suggested that: "National, religious, geographic, linguistic and cultural groups do not necessarily coincide with racial groups: and the cultural traits of such groups have no demonstrated genetic connection with racial traits. Because serious errors of this kind are habitually committed when the term “race” is used in popular parlance, it would be better when speaking of human races to drop the term ”race” altogether and speak of 'ethnic groups'."

So maybe I'm not entirely correct. But prejudice is wrong, no matter what. I think we both agree on that.

Windy... How about thinking before you make accusations like that again?

[Gaf The Horse With Tears]

My point was that I didn't consider prejudice against ethnicity/nation of origin racism

Well, what the hell is racism according to you?

An excerpt from Wiki:

"Racism has many definitions, the most prevalent today being the belief that human beings are divided into more than one race, with members of some races believing they are superior or inferior to members of other races.

The Oxford English Dictionary defines racism in the following manner:

The theory that distinctive human characteristics and abilities are determined by race.

By its strict definition, "superiority" or "inferiority" are not implied. However, in contemporary usage, the word has come to imply them, or readers or listeners may infer those aspects, which now makes the word almost synonymous with bigotry or prejudice. Like many other socio-political terms, it is not unusual for this word to have evolved or expanded from its original dictionary definition."

From Dictionary.com

rac·ism /ˈreɪsɪzəm/ Pronunciation Key - Show Spelled Pronunciation[rey-siz-uhm] –noun

1. a belief or doctrine that inherent differences among the various human races determine cultural or individual achievement, usually involving the idea that one's own race is superior and has the right to rule others.

2. a policy, system of government, etc., based upon or fostering such a doctrine; discrimination.

3. hatred or intolerance of another race or other races

American Heritage New Dictionary of Cultural Literacy, Third Edition

ethnicity [(eth-nis-uh-tee)]

Identity with or membership in a particular racial, national, or cultural group and observance of that group's customs, beliefs, and language.

From Dictionary.com

race2 /reɪs/ Pronunciation Key - Show Spelled Pronunciation[reys] –noun

1. a group of persons related by common descent or heredity.

2. a population so related.

3. Anthropology.

a. any of the traditional divisions of humankind, the commonest being the Caucasian, Mongoloid, and Negro, characterized by supposedly distinctive and universal physical characteristics: no longer in technical use.

b. an arbitrary classification of modern humans, sometimes, esp. formerly, based on any or a combination of various physical characteristics, as skin color, facial form, or eye shape, and now frequently based on such genetic markers as blood groups.

c. a human population partially isolated reproductively from other populations, whose members share a greater degree of physical and genetic similarity with one another than with other humans.

4. a group of tribes or peoples forming an ethnic stock: the Slavic race.

5. any people united by common history, language, cultural traits, etc.: the Dutch race.

6. the human race or family; humankind: Nuclear weapons pose a threat to the race.

7. Zoology. a variety; subspecies.

8. a natural kind of living creature: the race of fishes.

9. any group, class, or kind, esp. of persons: Journalists are an interesting race.

10. the characteristic taste or flavor of wine.

Someone break this off into it's own thread.

[Msterbeau]

If you go and read my second post, I made a distinction between prejudice based on race (racism) and prejudice based on national origin/ethnicity. (Bigotry) I've since amended my opinion after doing a little reading on race and ethnicity. How difficult is that to understand?

Well, what the hell is racism according to you?

An excerpt from Wiki:

"Racism has many definitions, the most prevalent today being the belief that human beings are divided into more than one race, with members of some races believing they are superior or inferior to members of other races.

The Oxford English Dictionary defines racism in the following manner:

The theory that distinctive human characteristics and abilities are determined by race.

By its strict definition, "superiority" or "inferiority" are not implied. However, in contemporary usage, the word has come to imply them, or readers or listeners may infer those aspects, which now makes the word almost synonymous with bigotry or prejudice. Like many other socio-political terms, it is not unusual for this word to have evolved or expanded from its original dictionary definition."

From Dictionary.com

rac·ism /ˈreɪsɪzəm/ Pronunciation Key - Show Spelled Pronunciation[rey-siz-uhm] –noun

1. a belief or doctrine that inherent differences among the various human races determine cultural or individual achievement, usually involving the idea that one's own race is superior and has the right to rule others.

2. a policy, system of government, etc., based upon or fostering such a doctrine; discrimination.

3. hatred or intolerance of another race or other races

American Heritage New Dictionary of Cultural Literacy, Third Edition

ethnicity [(eth-nis-uh-tee)]

Identity with or membership in a particular racial, national, or cultural group and observance of that group's customs, beliefs, and language.

From Dictionary.com

race2 /reɪs/ Pronunciation Key - Show Spelled Pronunciation[reys] –noun

1. a group of persons related by common descent or heredity.

2. a population so related.

3. Anthropology.

a. any of the traditional divisions of humankind, the commonest being the Caucasian, Mongoloid, and Negro, characterized by supposedly distinctive and universal physical characteristics: no longer in technical use.

b. an arbitrary classification of modern humans, sometimes, esp. formerly, based on any or a combination of various physical characteristics, as skin color, facial form, or eye shape, and now frequently based on such genetic markers as blood groups.

c. a human population partially isolated reproductively from other populations, whose members share a greater degree of physical and genetic similarity with one another than with other humans.

4. a group of tribes or peoples forming an ethnic stock: the Slavic race.

5. any people united by common history, language, cultural traits, etc.: the Dutch race.

6. the human race or family; humankind: Nuclear weapons pose a threat to the race.

7. Zoology. a variety; subspecies.

8. a natural kind of living creature: the race of fishes.

9. any group, class, or kind, esp. of persons: Journalists are an interesting race.

10. the characteristic taste or flavor of wine.

Someone break this off into it's own thread.

[Hellion]

Predudice because of age and or someone's status is also a big problem

carry on.

[Gaf The Horse With Tears]

Marc,

Chill.

It's hard to understand because... well... you are way wrong.

nationality/nation of origin is not the same thing as ethnicity. Race and ethnicity are the two interchangeable words.

I'll use me as an example.

My nationality is American... my nation of origin is the USA.... My race/ethnicity is Greek (or at least a majority of it).

From Wiki:

"An ethnic group or ethnicity is a population of human beings whose members identify with each other, usually on the basis of a presumed common genealogy or ancestry.[1] Ethnicity is also defined from the recognition by others as a distinct group[2] and by common cultural, linguistic, religious, behavioural or biological traits.

According to Statistics Canada, "Ethnicity is a fundamental factor in human life: it is a phenomenon inherent in human experience" despite its often malleable definitions.[3] However, according to anthropologists Frederick Barth and Eric Wolf, ethnic identities only arise under specific conditions.[4] Processes that result in the emergence of such identification are called ethnogenesis. Members of an ethnic group, on the whole, claim cultural continuities over time, although historians and cultural anthropologists have documented that many of the values, practices, and norms that imply continuity with the past are of relatively recent invention.

Ethnicity and race are related concepts in that both are usually defined in terms of shared genealogy.[11] Often, ethnicity also connotes shared cultural, linguistic, behavioural or religious traits. For example, to call oneself Jewish, Arab or Hispanic one immediately invokes a clutch of linguistic, religious, cultural and racial features that are held to be common within each ethnic category. Such broad ethnic categories have also been termed macroethnicity[12] to distinguish them from smaller more subjective ethnic features, often termed microethnicity.[13][14] Race, by contrast, refers to "some concentrations, as relative to frequency and distribution, of hereditary particles (genes) and physical characters, which appear, fluctuate, and often disappear in the course of time by reason of geographic and or cultural isolation." In 1950, the UNESCO statement The Race Question, signed by some of the internationally renowned scholars of the time (including Ashley Montagu, Claude Lévi-Strauss, Gunnar Myrdal, Julian Huxley, etc.), suggested that: "National, religious, geographic, linguistic and cultural groups do not necessarily coincide with racial groups: and the cultural traits of such groups have no demonstrated genetic connection with racial traits. Because serious errors of this kind are habitually committed when the term “race” is used in popular parlance, it would be better when speaking of human races to drop the term ”race” altogether and speak of 'ethnic groups'." [15]"

[Gaf The Horse With Tears]

I'm sorry, but you are never going to justify/marginalize/trivialize racism to me.

[DJ Nocker]

Im not gonna lie...im pretty racist, although to avoid being bitched at by my friends I keep it to myself most of the time.

[Fierce Critter]

Regarding a comment made in the other thread...

The existence of mafioso of Greek origin in Detroit is undeniable.

But mentioning they exist isn't really being racist OR bigoted.

It's just a fact.

How do I know?

My mother, born in the mid 1920's, and her sisters, all older than her, all ran numbers for the Greeks from their pre-teen years onward.

To this day, I can expect a certain amount of protection from the Greeks in Detroit. All I have to do is mention my mother's maiden name and I'll have backup in a time of need.

When I dated a Greek guy for a very short period of time in the mid 90's, and upon breaking-up found him stalking me, an Italian friend offered to get some "family members" to take care of him. I laughed, and assured her that if the Greeks who know the family name heard about this little fuck and what he was doing, he'd have a lot more to fear from his own people than from the Italians.

I love the Greeks. And sure as shit the Greek mafia is alive and well in Detroit.

Do they influence Kwame? I don't know. I was always under the impression that the Greeks preferred to keep to themselves and weren't interested in city politics. But with the addition of the casinos, things might have changed.

[Hellion]

Regarding a comment made in the other thread...

The existence of mafioso of Greek origin in Detroit is undeniable.

But mentioning they exist isn't really being racist OR bigoted.

It's just a fact.

How do I know?

My mother, born in the mid 1920's, and her sisters, all older than her, all ran numbers for the Greeks from their pre-teen years onward.

To this day, I can expect a certain amount of protection from the Greeks in Detroit. All I have to do is mention my mother's maiden name and I'll have backup in a time of need.

When I dated a Greek guy for a very short period of time in the mid 90's, and upon breaking-up found him stalking me, an Italian friend offered to get some "family members" to take care of him. I laughed, and assured her that if the Greeks who know the family name heard about this little fuck and what he was doing, he'd have a lot more to fear from his own people than from the Italians.

I love the Greeks. And sure as shit the Greek mafia is alive and well in Detroit.

Do they influence Kwame? I don't know. I was always under the impression that the Greeks preferred to keep to themselves and weren't interested in city politics. But with the addition of the casinos, things might have changed.

That will work,I have a few friends in the Mi militia and a few biker friends,that if anything happens to me ,they will find the asshole,btw one of my best friends is Greek,now back to the subject.

[Homicidalheathen]

Racism is picking on blue people and calling them oompa loompas.

[Homicidalheathen]

Oh and I stand corrected. Its NOT an oompa loompa........

Its........its......papa smurf!

[hunhee]

An ethnic group or ethnicity is a population of human beings whose members identify with each other, usually on the basis of a presumed common genealogy or ancestry.[1] Ethnicity is also defined from the recognition by others as a distinct group[2] and by common cultural, linguistic, religious, behavioral or biological traits.

I find HUGE fault with these lines I lifted from Gaf's quote, but I know that in order to define something, you have to make sweeping generalizations. I don't identify with any aspect of an Asian beyond my biological traits (and even those are in question, *coughs*Asian with big boobs*coughs*). Not culturally, linguistically, religiously OR behaviorally, does this make my ethnic identity Asian?? I am so confused, what am I?

Oh and don't say banana or twinkie.. I may take offense *giggles*

[jadnifer]

Yes my ethnicity is different than others. My nation of origin is different than others. My race is different than others. My age is different than others. My sex is different than others. My hair color is different than others. My eye color is different than others. My profession is different than others.

I am German, Polish, and Belgian mostly. My last name is Belgian.

My nation of origin is the America. (Really though most people, I dont know the exact percentage, if not all, have ancestors from a different country...so my origin really isnt america its just where I was born.)

My race is caucasian.

My age is 24.

My sex is female.

My hair color changes from time to time. Right now its dark brown with streaks of blonde and red.

My eye color is hazel.

My profession is unemployed.

That is who I am. Its not changing. Sure, I could change my eye color, my hair color, hell I could even change my sex if I really wanted to. But the point I am trying to make here is the fact that Im the only one of ME.

Thats why Im not racist at all. I was raised to believe that the only difference between me and someone of a different race is the color of their skin. That is what I will always believe too. yes, all races have things that are held against them. im not going to go into them because most of you probably already know what they are.

Also, people are racist against your age, physical traits, sex, and profession. People dont like lawyers. Some lawyers are jerks and theives but not all of them are. ( as an example)

I am not racist and nor will I ever be.

In my eyes everyone is created equal.

We all had to come from somewhere. Damn if we were all the same the world would really be a boring place.

[Steven]

I find HUGE fault with these lines I lifted from Gaf's quote, but I know that in order to define something, you have to make sweeping generalizations. I don't identify with any aspect of an Asian beyond my biological traits (and even those are in question, *coughs*Asian with big boobs*coughs*). Not culturally, linguistically, religiously OR behaviorally, does this make my ethnic identity Asian?? I am so confused, what am I?

Oh and don't say banana or twinkie.. I may take offense *giggles*

Asians with big boobs are hot, so I could never hate her.

plus I used to date one (Philipino) and her tat tas were fabulous.

if we all just got to play with at least one big boobed asian the world could be such a better place....

[Steven]

if you were going to boil it down, then my family originates in Greece.....

and at some point found themselves relocated as Basques......

who calim to be neither french nor spanish....but simply basque.....

who then found themselves in places like Chile (Urenda is actually a prominent name there carrying some social weight) and Argentina and eventually Mexico......

which two generations ago...finnaly found their way into America.....

I am a latin man...technically Mexican American...my thoughts, worldview, personality, passions, all very much stem form that. I dont look Mexican, at least I dont think so, unless my hair is very short....it has a tendency to change my appearance. If anything I look middle eastern, and it is not uncommon when in places like the airport or Darbonr to have someone from that race come up to me and speak to me in thair native language and tehn received a perplexed I cant help you look from me...

Other Latins have always been divided over my look. Many Mexicans in so Cal while I was growing up, did not like me...they thought I was a gypsy. sounds silly, but Latin people are by nature very suspiscious and very superstious. Unless these Mexicans, had a strong Spanish streak in their family (yes it DOES vary quite a bit) and they would do as the Middle easterners do.....they would attempt to speak to me in Castillian spanish...a different dialect, and yet I was a california boy listening to Led zeplin.....I couldent help them either.

anyway I dont look white. people always tag me as "something"....and foolishly ask me things like "What color are you?" I dont think I have ever asked anybody that question - but many people in my life have had the need to categorize me that way. How does that make them feel....to be able to place me? What problem does it solve?

My wife is white - your calssic blonde haired blue eyed Detroit Girl.

My Sister in law tuaght her kids at an early age to have a running joke at home.....they secretly called me "Juan". Nice. Its not a secret anymore. Over the years that graduated to "Fucking Mexican" and also "Lazy Mexican", Ive even come home to phone messages addressing me that way. I had been in this family for 20 years, when they up and one day demanded of laura to make a choice between me and them. Apparently my inclusion to the family had been a part time graft at best that depended on good behaviour which equated to knowking my place. Once I began to violate that - I was once again reduced to being a Mexican.

all of it - amazes me. But Ive seen it from my own people too.