Bill Maher

[Gaf The Horse With Tears]

"I'd like to tip off law enforcement to an even larger child-abusing religious cult," Maher told his audience. "Its leader also has a compound, and this guy not only operates outside the bounds of the law, but he used to be a Nazi and he wears funny hats. That's right, the Pope is coming to America this week and, ladies, he's single."

WASHINGTON, April 19, 2008 /PRNewswire-USNewswire via COMTEX/ -- After announcing that he was going to apologize to Catholics on Friday night's show "Talking Points," Bill Maher offered no apology or remorse for his statements. Earlier this week, American Life League spearheaded a unified effort among Catholics to cancel HBO subscriptions and demand that Maher be fired.

"Not only did Maher fail to apologize, he stepped up his insult of Pope Benedict XVI by saying that he swore an oath directly to Hitler," said Judie Brown, president of American Life League. "Maher made no apology and persists in his slander of the pope and the entire Catholic Church, and for that he must be fired."

How do you feel about his comments? Do you, like many people, think they were "hate speech" and should he be forced to apologize and get fired like Don Imus?

[ttogreh]

Well, it wasn't funny, and it sure was slanderous. I don't watch the man, so I couldn't care one way or the other. That being said... I think that HBO would be wise to figure something out in regards to punishing the man...

[Msterbeau]

I'm not going to get involved in this. Due to my own experiences and much reading, I harbor significant ill-will towards the Catholic Church. My opinion will be highly biased. I do think there's a difference between racism(Imus)and slander.

That said... I think this a reasonably succinct statement about Ratzinger's involvement with the Nazi's. It brings up it's own questions though:

"There is absolutely no reason to think that Joseph Ratzinger, now Pope Benedict XVI, is now or has ever been secretly a Nazi. Nothing he has ever said or done even remotely suggests the slightest sympathy with any of the basic Nazi ideas or goals. Any claim that he is a Nazi is implausible at best. However, that is not the end of the story.

While Ratzinger was not a Nazi in the past and Benedict XVI is not a Nazi now, there is more than enough reason to question his handling of his past. It appears that he hasn’t been honest with others — and probably not honest with himself — about what he did and what he could have done.

It’s simply not true that resistance was impossible at the time. Difficult, yes; dangerous, yes. But not impossible. John Paul II participated in anti-Nazi theater performances in Poland, yet there is no evidence of Joseph Ratzinger even doing this much.

Ratzinger may have done more than many others to resist, but he also did far less that some. It’s certainly understandable that he wouldn’t have had the courage to do more and, were he any average person, that would be the end of the story. But he isn’t an average person, is he? He’s the pope, a person who is supposed to be the successor of Peter, head of the Christian Church, and symbol of unity for all Christendom.

You don’t have to be morally perfect to hold such a position, but it’s not unreasonable to expect such a person to have come to terms with their moral failings, even the moral failings that occurred in youth when we don’t usually expect a great deal. It was an understandable mistake or failing not to do more against the Nazis, but still a failing that he hasn’t come to terms with — it sounds rather like he is in denial. In a sense, he has yet to repent; yet he was still considered the best of all the candidates for the papacy. "

[Rev.Reverence]

Satire... you can take it as slander...maybe bigoted... if you want to appear as having a stick up your butt... the dude (Maher) is a fucking comic, and genius at that... I know many Catholics that think he's HILARIOUS... AND my friends, Christian is not synonymous with Catholic... they are not interchangeable...

[Gaf The Horse With Tears]

Hate speech is a term for speech intended to degrade, intimidate, or incite violence or prejudicial action against a person or group of people based on their race, gender, age, ethnicity, nationality, religion, sexual orientation, gender identity, disability, language ability, moral or political views, socioeconomic class, occupation or appearance (such as height, weight, and hair color), mental capacity and any other distinction-liability. The term covers written as well as oral communication and some forms of behaviors in a public setting. It is also sometimes called antilocution and is the first point on Allport's scale which measures prejudice in a society.

So, Hate Speech is OK... as long as it's against Catholics and the Pope?

[ttogreh]

I did some reading... With insight, I must revise and extend my prior statements.

I honestly doubt that a man who lost a cousin to the Nazis really would be all that enthusiastic about them. Fourteen year old Joseph Ratzinger's cousin with down syndrome was killed in a eugenics campaign. 14 year old Joseph Ratzinger was enrolled in the Hitler Youth, but refused to attend meetings.

Bill Maher is exposing his disdain and apparent hate of organized religion by equating the forced induction of a 14 year old boy into an organization that helped kill his cousin with a sympathy for Nazism. Bill Maher has a history of outrageous and altogether unacceptable statements.

Now, HBO can do whatever it wants. Hell, if Maher's brand of nonsense brings in the dollars... fine. I, for one... am not going to be watching any HBO program as long as they coddle this... man.

[Rev.Reverence]

I think satire is the right of a COMIC... whether or not YOU or I like it... and I am a CATHOLIC...

[Gaf The Horse With Tears]

I really don't think thats a legitimate excuse.

I think this falls under the same double standard that makes it OK to call me "Cracker" or "whitey".

There are certain people (white people) that we as a people have decided that it's OK to be a bigot against and certain religions (Any flavor of Christian) that are OK to be intolerant of.

Pitty on any poor soul that happens to be white and a christian. Hatred and scorn are all they are going to get.. and hey, they deserve it. They are after all decendants of Slave owners and the Catholic Church did bad things a few hundred years ago. No, don't go spiltting hairs and point out that white people were not the ones that invented slavery.. and that is was widely practiced all over the world... Don't point out that it was a pagans that persacuted the christians before they had large numbers...

Everything evil in the world is ultimatly the fault of White people who go to Christian churches.

So bash them all you want. Call them any name you want. Accuse them of every crime...

White Christians deserve it.

They are, after all, the root of all evil.

Rev. - I'm really surprised that you advocate and make excuse for any form of hate speeh.

[Rev.Reverence]

Rev. - I'm really surprised that you advocate and make excuse for any form of hate speeh.

I advocate FREE speech... especially theatrically.. especially comically... IT IS NOT HATE SPEECH... HE'S SPEAKING HIS MIND, there are no slurs... slander has been a staple in comedy since it's inception. ( and puppets beating each other)

.. MAHER is a comedian, that's my point... He does not just go after one set.. if he is proglamating hate, he sure spreads it around... he made fun of Homosexuals, Republicans, Democrats, Child-Bearers, Jews, (i think he's of decent but not religious), Muslims, Police, Armed Forces, Pot Heads(he smokes), and on and on... basically whatever situation that put a bug in his ass that week, that's HIS ACT...

...and , when you least expect it I will surprise you...

[Gaf The Horse With Tears]

have you watched his HBO show? It may be full of comedy, but it's a political talk show. Complete with round table discussion and special guests.

Imus is a comedian too. He's just s different type.

I think that if this type of speech is going to cost one man his job, it should cost everyman who utters it his job.

[Oh_My_Goth]

I am sooooo sick of hearing people cry over stupid shit like being offended.....

Everyone is entitled to their opinion.....

Also, as someone pointed out He IS a comedian.....

I am a catholic, and I think that is some funny shit to say.

[Rev.Reverence]

have you watched his HBO show? It may be full of comedy, but it's a political talk show. Complete with round table discussion and special guests.

Imus is a comedian too. He's just s different type.

I think that if this type of speech is going to cost one man his job, it should cost everyman who utters it his job.

IMUS, was being a total fucking gerk... (the "nappy head" incident) ... but in AMERICA, we're allowed to be gerks...

..in fact, people get paid ALL the time for it... ie. POLITICIANS (90%)

[torn asunder]

I am sooooo sick of hearing people cry over stupid shit like being offended.....

Everyone is entitled to their opinion.....

Also, as someone pointed out He IS a comedian.....

I am a catholic, and I think that is some funny shit to say.

aside from the being catholic part - i agree!

[sass_in_the_pants]

Didn't you hear? It's SUPER funny to slander the Pope and make fun of Catholics.

Super. Funny.

See how hard I'm laughing.

Now, if he had called the Pope a nappy-headed ho, he'd get fired. But he didn't. He called the Pope a Nazi. So that's okay. Because I can't think of anything funnier than Nazis.

It's hate speech.

It's slander.

Nothing will come of it.

Lewis Black is way funnier anyway.

[Troy Spiral (13)]

I honestly did feel upon reading these comments from him that they were in poor taste, and i dont find picking out peoples loved figures and just hurling insults at them to be funny due to it being "shocking". "Poop! Jesus! hahaha!!" (just as example) So not funny, not even slightly. Its just immature. But some do find it funny, and thats what this goof does for a living. Hes a socio-political satirist. (I might argue not all that great of one)

Is it offensive to some? Sure. Would i have personally said these things? No. But the double-standard is even more offensive to me. Religious figures should have to suck up the same sort of criticism and ridicule anyone else in the public realm does. This "outrage" reminds me of a mild form of the witch-hunt in the Islamic world for criticizing muhammad or various religious leaders in the east, by figures in the east.

The pope is a public figure. This same sort of "OMG WHAT DID HE SAY?" stuff would barely bat an eyelash if Maher wasn't talking about a religious figure.

The churches teachings against contraception are indirectly causing the deaths of tens, if not hundreds of thousands of ignorant peasants in Aids-Ridden Africa via the ludicrous teachings against contraception. Far more egregious an offence than any "rude comments" by Bill Maher.

Welcome to being a public figure. One that presides over what was (and still is, even with the pope(s) recent outspoken rhetoric against such acts) the most visible pedophile shelter in the world, and only "came out" after much kicking and screaming, political wrangling and brave journalists risking their careers to expose such things. (Of whom several lost their jobs for daring to do so.)

[ttogreh]

Troy, the pedophilia jabs... I can go with them. The anger over the Church's teachings on contraception? Fair game.

Joseph Ratzinger was fourteen. FOURTEEN, and trapped in a fascistic hell, a hell in which his cousin was killed for having Down syndrome. Calling him a former Nazi... that is simply beyond the pale.

Now, perhaps my Teutonic and Catholic heritage has made me a little sensitive to this sort of thing. I will concede that being called a Nazi all through my childhood made for a bit of trauma.

Still, I must maintain that while public figures have a much higher bar for slander, they bleed red when cut, just like any of us.

I didn't live under the Nazi regime. None of my family members or friends were killed by the Nazis. If being called a Nazi hurts me as much as it does, I can not imagine what it must do to the Pope.

[Troy Spiral (13)]

I know its not possible to make certian points without offending somone, and some points i've avoided for years. I dont "want" to offend anyone, nor do i think offending people is funny. But a few things, i'm slowly deciding are worth the ruffled feathers they may casue. But if i ever cross over into the the "intentionally" or "regularly offensive" catagory i'll have to correct my behavior as fast as possible.

My comments were not meant as jabs they are serious, scary, (to me) facts. If anyone has been reading my posts for a long time i hope its clear i try very hard not to take pot shots. At least very rarely and probably unintentionally or in a brief moment of irrationality. Especially about serious problems. It wouldn't even occur to me. I think may of us live with wise-asses that make publicly rude statements just for effect, and maybe assume that others would do the same. Not me at least not publicly. I think about things for a long, long time before i post them. Some would say i spend too long at it.

Its not even like me to take cute sort of "rude comments" and turn them into some sort of "point." I just make my point. Thats it. I don't play games with serious subjects like this.

Off Topic: Glad you updated your profile with a picture and such ttogreh just makes for a better more "real" place around here.

[ttogreh]

I was vague, and I typed hastily.

BILL MAHER'S pedophilia jabs... BILL MAHER'S anger at the teachings of the Church...

I apologize for the confusion.

[Gaf The Horse With Tears]

Well, public opinion of his "act" got his show canceled and got him fired when he worked for ABC... maybe the same will happen with HBO.

I'm really hoping he looses his ass on his new anti-Christian movie.

BTW: someone said that he was Jewish, he's not... he was raised Catholic.

[Fin]

The central question revolves around how you define "hate speech."

If you agree with the definition:

"Hate speech is a term for speech intended to degrade, intimidate, or incite violence or prejudicial action against a person or group of people based on their race, gender, age, ethnicity, nationality, religion, sexual orientation, gender identity, disability, language ability, moral or political views, socioeconomic class, occupation or appearance (such as height, weight, and hair color), mental capacity and any other distinction-liability."

There clearly was no intimidation or violence incited here. As for degradation--perhaps. But shades of degradation are the seeds of satire--be it on HBO, in French literature or elsewhere.

[Rev.Reverence]

Well, public opinion of his "act" got his show canceled and got him fired when he worked for ABC... maybe the same will happen with HBO.

I'm really hoping he looses his ass on his new anti-Christian movie.

BTW: someone said that he was Jewish, he's not... he was raised Catholic.

Yes, and I said "I think", and I THINK MAYBE you should slow down reading... But he' s non practicing, 'secular', so he doesn't care about what you do on Sunday... AND he's apparently got FOLLOWING... made more money than I ever seen.... ....Freedom... that's still what I believe in....YUP.

I'm not even a big fan... I laugh at a lot of horrible shit... I did not think the Nazi jokes were warranted, ( I call it 'extenuating circumstances') when he took his seat and all sorts of people was making this joke... I heard John Stuart say something quite similar just last week...

So why does one man get all the shit for this Nazi joke, that was started years ago????

[Rev.Reverence]

The central question revolves around how you define "hate speech."

If you agree with the definition:

"Hate speech is a term for speech intended to degrade, intimidate, or incite violence or prejudicial action against a person or group of people based on their race, gender, age, ethnicity, nationality, religion, sexual orientation, gender identity, disability, language ability, moral or political views, socioeconomic class, occupation or appearance (such as height, weight, and hair color), mental capacity and any other distinction-liability."

There clearly was no intimidation or violence incited here. As for degradation--perhaps. But shades of degradation are the seeds of satire--be it on HBO, in French literature or elsewhere.

I shoulda' quoted this FIN person too ....

PROPS!!!

[Gaf The Horse With Tears]

Yes, and I said "I think", and I THINK MAYBE you should slow down reading... But he' s non practicing, 'secular', so he doesn't care about what you do on Sunday... AND he's apparently got FOLLOWING... made more money than I ever seen.... ....Freedom... that's still what I believe in....YUP.

I'm not even a big fan... I laugh at a lot of horrible shit... I did not think the Nazi jokes were warranted, ( I call it 'extenuating circumstances') when he took his seat and all sorts of people was making this joke... I heard John Stuart say something quite similar just last week...

So why does one man get all the shit for this Nazi joke, that was started years ago????

I don't think he is funny. At all. Infact, I find him to be offensive, not just in what he says but in his way of doing business. I have read how he runs his shows and how he picks people to be on them. He has an extreme anti-religion agenda and does not try to hide it. He and his "following" would like nothing better than to take away your Freedom of Religion.

You cool with that. I'm not.

He's already been fired and lost his show once before for going way too far over the line when insulting everyone with faith. If this current bit of hate doesn't do it, his next outburst of hate most likely will.

[Rev.Reverence]

I don't think he is funny. At all. Infact, I find him to be offensive, not just in what he says but in his way of doing business. I have read how he runs his shows and how he picks people to be on them. He has an extreme anti-religion agenda and does not try to hide it. He and his "following" would like nothing better than to take away your Freedom of Religion.

You cool with that. I'm not.

He's already been fired and lost his show once before for going way too far over the line when insulting everyone with faith. If this current bit of hate doesn't do it, his next outburst of hate most likely will.

I hardly think you pay attention to what I am typing...

[Gaf The Horse With Tears]

Why? I read it and respond when in my fashion.