Another church shooting

[Msterbeau]

http://www.cnn.com/2008/CRIME/07/27/church...ting/index.html

[Onyx]

That's really sad.

I'm very impressed though that they wrestled this man to the ground and stopped him before he could kill more people.

[Msterbeau]

That's really sad.

I'm very impressed though that they wrestled this man to the ground and stopped him before he could kill more people.

Anyone that thinks Unitarians are a bunch of wimpy pacifist liberals just got a slap in the face. I'm very curious to see what the motive is. It could be personal but I'm expecting it to be a gay hater or something else that Unitarians support.

[Gaf The Horse With Tears]

Perhaps he was confused and thought they were Christians.

[Msterbeau]

Perhaps he was confused and thought they were Christians.

Perhaps you should stop pretending like Christians have it so bad in this country.

[Gaf The Horse With Tears]

Well, excuse me. I was serious. Not everyone knows that Unitarians don't hold Christian values or beliefs. With the rash of Church shooting in the last two years and the many many Churches burnt to the ground in the last ten... it's not a great stretch of logic to think that perhaps he thought he was going to be killing Christians.

[Oh_My_Goth]

I think he was not loved as a child.....Or taught a 'way', some kind of a path.....

I know that sounds like some 'Hippie' attitude but it is probably the case.....

[Msterbeau]

Well, excuse me. I was serious. Not everyone knows that Unitarians don't hold Christian values or beliefs. With the rash of Church shooting in the last two years and the many many Churches burnt to the ground in the last ten... it's not a great stretch of logic to think that perhaps he thought he was going to be killing Christians.

Well maybe if you didn't complain so much about Christian "persecution" I would have taken you seriously.

I think you should attend a few services before you go saying what we do or don't believe. It's not one monolithic, dogmatic religion. Which is the whole point. There are a fair bit of people who hold Christian values and /or beliefs to some degree or another. We are evolved from Christian denominations. That said, there are many who hold Christianity in fairly low esteem.

My understanding is that most of the other church shootings have been personality conflicts or similar situations.

[SaGa]

keep in my mind it is part of christian belief to expect persecution. and to die for it whould be a honor in a way. not that im saying they should seek death. but murphys law plays in affect

and christians are not being persecuted more so then any other group. more people are attacking islam these days. and scientology well not as much violent objection, but more so everyones just laughing at them. and pagans have had there share of persecution from christians who dont understand love.

its like any other beliefs is a insult to the other ones and thus must be taken care of. and non believers are sheep that must be converted

[pomba gira]

Unitarians don't hold Christian values or beliefs

Have to agree with Marc, that is not strictly true.

[sass_in_the_pants]

How tragic.

My prayers are with the victims and their families.

[Gaf The Horse With Tears]

I would just like to point it it has come to light that the shooter had a very strong dislike of Christians, The Church and the Bible because his parents made him go to Church as a child.

Marc, I have attended a Unitarian church. It felt hollow to me. All the trappings of Church but without God.

Saga... how many Mosque have been burnt to the ground in the USA in the last 10 years? Just go to google.. search for "Church shooting USA" and compare it to "Mosque shooting USA". Then tell me if you still think Muslims are getting attacked more often in the USA than Christians.

[Guest GodfallenPromos]

YOU ALL MIND????

can we please have some consideration and not turn this into another damn fight??

I mean....I used to be a member of that EXACT church....when I lived in Knoxville.

I knew those ppl...it was honestly the best and open-minded experiance of my life...and everyone was so accepting of what your beliefs and philosophies were...

*sheds tears*

[LadyKay]

Sometime there is no reason. Some people just want to hurt people.

[Rev.Reverence]

I would just like to point it it has come to light that the shooter had a very strong dislike of Christians, The Church and the Bible because his parents made him go to Church as a child.

Marc, I have attended a Unitarian church. It felt hollow to me. All the trappings of Church but without God.

Saga... how many Mosque have been burnt to the ground in the USA in the last 10 years? Just go to google.. search for "Church shooting USA" and compare it to "Mosque shooting USA". Then tell me if you still think Muslims are getting attacked more often in the USA than Christians.

Hmm.. Gaf.. you have stated clearly that you are not a Christian.. but you feel strongly on this subject.. why?

..and as for one Faith having it harder than another...that's absurd...firstly because you can not count pain and strife.. then measure it against another's pain and strife...you can't..it is one of a few ZEN truths.

Christians are killing each other.. and some other faction is trying to burn out a few Churches..

Muslims are being blanketed with propaganda (being judged by your cousins actions is un-American) . People insulting a very Love inspired Religious movement. I see it EVERYDAY Gaf... I have not seen any of this 'anti-Christian attacks' in daily life just the odd artical here or there... So it is like comparing apples and oranges is it not?

[Gaf The Horse With Tears]

I don't have to be a Christian to see the hate poured on them. One need only read though posts on this board to see how it's perfectly fine to "attack" Christians. The dark past of the Catholic Church, whom I have little respect for, is applied like a blanket to all Christians. I see people excuse the murders and autrositys carried out in the name of Islam while in the same breath damn Christians because 400 years ago the Catholics did evil things in the name of God.

Let me just put it this way... there are 9 Food Pantrys, 4 homeless shelters and 3 emergancy aid agencys in the town where I live. All of them are run by Christian groups. None require you to be a member to get thier help. None require you be Christian.

Thats why I defend the Christian faith so much.

[Rev.Reverence]

I don't have to be a Christian to see the hate poured on them. One need only read though posts on this board to see how it's perfectly fine to "attack" Christians. The dark past of the Catholic Church, whom I have little respect for, is applied like a blanket to all Christians. I see people excuse the murders and autrositys carried out in the name of Islam while in the same breath damn Christians because 400 years ago the Catholics did evil things in the name of God.

Let me just put it this way... there are 9 Food Pantrys, 4 homeless shelters and 3 emergancy aid agencys in the town where I live. All of them are run by Christian groups. None require you to be a member to get thier help. None require you be Christian.

Thats why I defend the Christian faith so much.

Thanx for the thoughtful reply..now I understand.

Those same Christians that you defend ARE made up of kind hearted great people, and some not so great peoples.

Do you also see the hate they pour?

Just like every other group.

I would defend the flank of any Spiritual person I can...(you know I'm not down with certain things)

[Destroit]

May I please take this moment to remind everyone that the threadjacking really and seriously needs to cease. Threadjacking is not something that we want going on with the board so much, especially in a topic that is meant to be serious.

This thread is not meant to be about Christians or Christian persecution...this thread is about the recent tragic shooting in Tenessee. It's also VERY immature and disrespectful to carry on an arguement of such for people who wanted to either say respects or have ties to that community such as Godfallen. Let's all act like adults here, please, if you'd like to debate about religious persecution, start your own thread. Thanks.

It's callous acts of violence like this event that remind me of how random death really is. You just would never think that in going to a place of spirituality you would be popped off. That's the LAST place anyone should ever be killed. I hope the gunman spends the rest of his life behind bars. I can only feel horrible for the family and friends of the person shot...but that's life.

[Guest GodfallenPromos]

I don't have to be a Christian to see the hate poured on them. One need only read though posts on this board to see how it's perfectly fine to "attack" Christians. The dark past of the Catholic Church, whom I have little respect for, is applied like a blanket to all Christians. I see people excuse the murders and autrositys carried out in the name of Islam while in the same breath damn Christians because 400 years ago the Catholics did evil things in the name of God.

Let me just put it this way... there are 9 Food Pantrys, 4 homeless shelters and 3 emergancy aid agencys in the town where I live. All of them are run by Christian groups. None require you to be a member to get thier help. None require you be Christian.

Thats why I defend the Christian faith so much.

Don't put all the blame on the Catholic Church, though as a former Catholic, I will agree that our past actions are bloodier then most.

The Angelican church, Mormons, and early Protestants all persecuted people over their faith, even to the point of mass murder. So when I put blame on the christian based faith systems...I do it as a whole. Not a single one of them that is older then 300 years gets to walk free without stones being cast, and thats a historical fact.

If the christian groups in your area don't discriminate while running those programs in your area...then more props to them...but I have been in MANY cities, when I was homeless, where I was denied help because I was not a member of that faith...and that goes much farther then Catholics...as I have been denied help by Lutheran, Baptist, Angelican, and other christian based faiths....because I was none of those.

Defend it all you want, Gaf....but don't defend it thinking that they have no blood on their hands or guilt in their history...because thats just ignorant....and I got a little more respect for you then to think you fully ignorant.

[Gaf The Horse With Tears]

I know that Christians have blood on their hands... I just wont damn modern Christians for the sins of their fore-fathers. I will not discount the good works they do because some people do bad things.

I would like to apologize for this turning into an argument. It was not my intent at all. I mearly stated that I thought this might turn out to be a ill-aimed hate crime against Christians... when things like this happen, people wonder about the motive... and as it turns out.. he hates the Liberal movement.

[phee]

May I please take this moment to remind everyone that the threadjacking really and seriously needs to cease. Threadjacking is not something that we want going on with the board so much, especially in a topic that is meant to be serious.

This thread is not meant to be about Christians or Christian persecution...this thread is about the recent tragic shooting in Tenessee. It's also VERY immature and disrespectful to carry on an arguement of such for people who wanted to either say respects or have ties to that community such as Godfallen. Let's all act like adults here, please, if you'd like to debate about religious persecution, start your own thread. Thanks.

It's callous acts of violence like this event that remind me of how random death really is. You just would never think that in going to a place of spirituality you would be popped off. That's the LAST place anyone should ever be killed. I hope the gunman spends the rest of his life behind bars. I can only feel horrible for the family and friends of the person shot...but that's life.

Did you guys miss this?

[Guest GodfallenPromos]

Did you guys miss this?

I honestly did...because she posted while I was in the middle of posting...

[phee]

I honestly did...because she posted while I was in the middle of posting...

LOL it's cool.... thanks for saying so...

[phee]

*Phee attempts to navigate through the religious fog back to the thread at hand*

It seems to me the motivation of this person was to go to a CHURCH and kill people.... No matter what else it is very sad, and I commend those who prevented any further bloodshed.

[Simon Bar Sinister]

The gunman left what was supposed to be a suicide note (he expected to be killed by the police), and in it, he explained that it was the liberal leanings of the Unitarian Church that spurred his attack. Specifically, they posted on their marquee "we welcome our gay brothers and sisters". He was also bummed out at being unemployed. There was apparently a lot more; the letter was 4 pages long.

jdfu!