so my cusin is in a cult

[cptdeath]

yeah it's kinda odd. long story short. man gives up heroin and finds god.

it's odd for me in the actuality of it. first off to here my cousin even had a three year old haroin problem without me knowing was wacktastic. so i'm thrilled to here through his faith in god he defeated his addiction. i'm not so much into god an all i think all religion world wide is all missinterpritations of the same concepts loosly stated. i do however realize the power of faith (the riddle of steel) ( there is no spoon). so I respect that power. i adhere to the amarican ideal of you respect mine and i'll respect yours. but apperently i'm alone in that concept.

my cousin and his family meet with a small group of ten people in a gerage every week and listen to an aragant judgemental condesending man try to do good in the world. it's a fu#$ing trip. of course i would go with them if invited. some of the shit i heard was crazy and down right mean. i try to look past it and see the good and take the good parts of the message ( and there is some) but it's so missguided and addamant in it's word. no respect for other people or there thoughts. no bend no give. there such assholes. they say first off that faith means nothing it's you lying to yourself all that matters is fowloing the bible word for word. if the bible said cut up animals for atounment i would have seen my family cutting up animals in sacrafice 100% for sure. so right off the bat i don't like the idea that faith is meaningless.

then they have the attitude that if your not word for word following the bible your just one of the many sinners doing whatever you want and are an evil person in there eyes. so if you don't thump the bible you are to be cast aside from there life as an unclean tool of satan and there better then you, all they can do is pray for you.

then the guy goes int making examples of how he's better then this guy or this guy. making spacific examples of spacific people, namley my autistic causin (the brother of the afor mentioned cousin). picking on his ignorence at the actual tabel were all sitting at.

the rest of the family, my uncles brothers are all roman catholic (old school) they look at the adherence to the word of the bible and the abandonment of faith as worshiping false idols. i agree with that. he says "they want to dis the catholic church it's satan working aganst the catholic church simple done" then he laughs and opens a another bear. "fu#$ em"

they say the purpose of there church is to take good intentions and put them into action. Ive seen alot of harm come from good intentions myself. for years i have had this quote stuck in my head " the path to hell is paved with good intentions" so when that guy opened his sermon with that i got real nervous.

it was uncomfortable for a sourcerer like me to sit and listne to the crap, i don't like this discrediting of all faiths the judgementalness condeming all others who don't follow there particular preacher in his superiority. i don't like to sit by and let him pick on my autistic cousin or make examples of those foolish enough to put faith in something.

another thing is I never hung out with someone who when they drink a little starts tryiing to convert people around them to a cult. most drunks fall into clasic stereotypes. the mean drunk. the emotional girl at they party,, the sloppy drunk and now we have the "don't you believe theres something more out there! So what do you think happens to you when you die! I know it's alot to take in at first!" drunk. the guy who gets into a couple drinks and starts trying to add to the flock. I can't figure out what the hell he's trying to sell cause no anser will satisfy when he states those questions in that condesending tone.

good thing i'm a lot brighter a bulb then the rest of that pack or i would definetly feel confused and that is how it starts i guess. so if you want to start a cult you first have to create confussion in a victum then self doubt followed by a combination of sense of ugency and a terrifying feeling of impending doom. then just like that you offer salvation and create a follower. It's aprocess realy and takes some time and effort. appearently two hours a night once a week.

i got love for my cousin and the family but if they want me to respect there beliefs they need to be my fellow amaricans and respect mine. they think i'm such an evil villan there like so shocked when i do something nice or good and they say dumb ignorant shit like wow your coming along nicley. whatever dude. just cause i keep my karma tight an help out my fellow americans from time to time does'nt mean i do it out of fear like you , i tell him just to pick on him a little.

they were condeming a man for carrying around a bible couse he didn't know it inside and out. saying he was false against the word of god and his faith was a lie. that all faith was a lie perpitrated by onesself and satan and the only redemption is here in my head my knowledge of the written word of god not in your lie. ( i know just take that in for asecond and imagine me the new guy in a gerage with ten people and this asswhole leaning in screaming that shit). should i go back? it's useless there is no room for argument interpritation or oppinion just stone faces starring quite focused on you devote and unbending in there belief of ritchousness. how hypocritical to sit there and believe something so strongly you flount it and say all beliefs are fals lies that make you less then me.

i see salvation in my fellow man. some guy said some famous quote i can only half remember, help me out here "blank is the only quality that will redeam mankind"

your thoughts anybody

[Oh_My_Goth]

The sheeple need to follow somebody I suppose.....

[sass_in_the_pants]

I'm very worried for your cousin.

How long have these garage revivals been going on?

Is there anyone else in the family you can talk to about this? Has anyone else in the family talked to your cousin about this? You said this involves your cousin and his family, so does EVERYONE in his immediate family meet with this man - mom, dad, brothers and sisters? Are tehy all as sucked in as your brother?

I have seen this sort of thing before. Often, the reverend asks for donations, many many donations, and the family gives them up, and then the reverend goes bye-bye, leaving the family broke - financially AND spiritually. Getting over the loss of money is actually the easier of the two.

Even if that is NOT the case of this reverend, it still does sound like he's leading them down the wrong path. And that should worry you even more.

You mentioned your family being roman catholic. Are they active at a particular parish? Is there a priest at their home parish who could pay them a visit? Some priests have more experience with this sort of situation than others, so the priest from their home parish might not even be very good at talking to them on this subject, but it would be someone with whom they are familiar.

And again, look to the rest of your family - they are your support and his, too. Talk to them.

Good luck.

My prayers are with your cousin.

[StormKnight (1)]

I am not particularly keen on hyper-religious.

To quote Bobcat Goldthwaite (from one of his routines):

I believe in a loving God, a forgiving God, like a Dad figure, you know.

*as God*

Come, here, come here. *puts person in headlock*

You fucked up?? Aww, why did you fuck up?

*nooggies person* try not to fuck up again, OK?

Now go on, get going, I love you, OK? I love you.

*as himself*

I don't believe in a God that says I will go to hell for jerking off.

As for cults and the the radicals, Tom Robbins summed it up best (Still Life with Woodpecker):

There is a particularly unattractive and discouraging common affliction called tunnel vision, which, for all the misery it causes, ought to top the job list at the World Health Organization. Tunnel vision is a disease in which perception is restricted by ignorance and distorted by vested interest. Tunnel vision is caused by an optic fungus that multiplies when the brain is less energetic than the ego. It is complicated by exposure to politics. When a good idea is run through the filters and compressors of tunnel vision, it not only comes out reduced in scale and value but in its new dogmatic configuration produces effects the opposite of those for which it was originally intended.

That is how the loving ideas of Jesus Christ became the sinister cliches of Christianity. That is why virtually every revolution in history has failed: the oppressed, as soon as they seize power, turn into the oppressors, resorting to totalitarian tactics to "protect the revolution." That is why minorities seeking the abolition of prejudice become intolerant, minorities seeking peace become militant, minorities seeking equality become self-righteous, and minorities seeking liberation become hostile (a tight asshole being the first symptom of self-repression).

I would rather not have these groups around, but they are a mirror to reflect ourselves, lest we become as intolerant as they are. It is the price to live in a free society that there are some people I will just not agree with. So I have to accept it, or risk becoming as intolerant as they are.

However, if they start restricting my right to choose what I want or not want to follow freely, and force their beliefs down my throat, then the ball game is over, and the fight begins.

[sass_in_the_pants]

Oh yeah, and it sounds like this guy is all about 'sola scriptura'. Don't get me started on 'sola scriptura'.

[Rev.Reverence]

Oh yeah, and it sounds like this guy is all about 'sola scriptura'. Don't get me started on 'sola scriptura'.

What is this "sola scripture"?

You know I like to know things...

*presses the "get you started button"*

[Rev.Reverence]

I don't have much to say other than "watch your own ass"...

But you seem to have that covered...being a student of our fine arts...

I would, (in your position), tell the fam what you think about this 'Preacher'...

I would try to get the Parish Priest involved as well...

A 'Spiritual Intervention' is totally in order here...

I only say that because your Cousin is (assumingly) Confirmed... & not acting very Catholic, in and of not being outraged at the mere ideal of putting down an autistic kid, let alone a relative...

I believe the word for your blank is "LOVE"...

Catholacism is built on LOVE... and an intrinsic ideal of tolerance...

Fare thee well, & I pray for you & yours in this, your time of need... MAY YOU LEARN THAT WHICH THE DIVINE WILLS.

[StormKnight (1)]

Sola scrpitura (latin, ablative case): Lit. "by scripture alone." The belief that the scripture is the end-all, be all, sine qua non (that without which,) of Christianity, written by God himself. It takes the scripture as literal word of God, and accepts no substitution. (at least, that is my take on it.)

I wish you the best of luck in dealing with this.

[sass_in_the_pants]

What is this "sola scripture"?

You know I like to know things...

*presses the "get you started button"*

You're so funny Rev! I should have known you would have pressed the get you started button.

You were the kid in school that opened the doors that said 'don't open this' right?

And Storm's close. Very, very close.

It's not that there isn't a substitution, it's that there isn't anything in addition to.

I don't want to threadjack cpt's thread so I'll PM you about this later on.

[Homicidalheathen]

I had a friend in a cult once. She was a rather weak minded individual anyway....

Always in abusive relationships...

My brother too...He actually admitted to me (because southern baptists are kinda cultish...especially his particular church...) 'I am glad I have a overwhelming desire for the lord cause otherwise I am afraid I would end up an alcoholic like dad...'

The lesser of two evils I guess...

I don't visit him at all so I don't have to hear his crap.

[cptdeath]

i think it's just an issue of culture shock really. i think with a little training he can open his mind to other perceptions without condemming them instantly. hay it's better then haroin. it's all samantic differences.

allthough it can seem pretty radical to me. what an odd statement to make here. bible thumper culture shock. huh. (helps me reason it out in my head)

[pomba gira]

i think it's just an issue of culture shock really. i think with a little training he can open his mind to other perceptions without condemming them instantly.

But that isn't gonna happen as long as he's under the influence of this cult leader. I agree with Sass... this sounds like the kind of charlatan who aims to control every aspect of his followers' lives while draining them of their money. People in these groups become very dependent on the "church" for emotional support and life guidance, and the prospect of being abandoned is devastating. And a follower WILL be abandoned if they question the leader's right to dictate their every action. Larger cults will often provide or find employment for followers, so there is the threat of being left jobless if they part with the cult. There is a large church here in Lansing that uses this tactic... a friend of a friend decided to continue her education against the "pastor's" advice, and found herself jobless and homeless in short order. Fortunately it doesn't sound like your cousin's group is big enough to operate this way... but there is still plenty of damage they can do.

Personally, I would rather be a heroin addict again than fall under the sway of this kind of outfit. But that's just me... we choose our addictions to fill needs that we have. Heroin did it for me, hellfire-style religion wouldn't.

[SaGa]

But that isn't gonna happen as long as he's under the influence of this cult leader. I agree with Sass... this sounds like the kind of charlatan who aims to control every aspect of his followers' lives while draining them of their money. People in these groups become very dependent on the "church" for emotional support and life guidance, and the prospect of being abandoned is devastating. And a follower WILL be abandoned if they question the leader's right to dictate their every action. Larger cults will often provide or find employment for followers, so there is the threat of being left jobless if they part with the cult. There is a large church here in Lansing that uses this tactic... a friend of a friend decided to continue her education against the "pastor's" advice, and found herself jobless and homeless in short order. Fortunately it doesn't sound like your cousin's group is big enough to operate this way... but there is still plenty of damage they can do.

Personally, I would rather be a heroin addict again than fall under the sway of this kind of outfit. But that's just me... we choose our addictions to fill needs that we have. Heroin did it for me, hellfire-style religion wouldn't.

so what your saying is a all cults are commies i can see that.

anyways back to main subject

3 options

see if anything illegal is being done there, (and the police chief is NOT involved with the cult)

next whould be to use theology with various members. yes you can fight the bible with the bible since most people who believe it seem to believe the king james version is also correct and then end up misunderstand the meaning of it thanks to the english language having 10 meanings for each word.

and if they are THAT prideful of there cult to give it up in the face of truth. then you might have to get a bunch of people and out number them. and goto one of there revivals and screw them over big time

[cptdeath]

today he told me his dad was going to montana on a religious mission. I asked if they were moving into a compound. He looked at me all pissed "were not insane dude! you know that". i asked if his dad has gone on these missions before. he said no but he has.

i really think there going to alot of personel expense to do good and actual charity work. to actually help kids dying of cancer honestly. plus a little vacation is nice.

i don't want to give the wrong impression i don't think there being robbed cause the preacher is not really that bright. they are sincere in there will to help others. my uncle is a very smart guy in his own right, a charismatic master sales men his whole career who you could never read or guess his thoughts. a guy who can't help himself sometimes when it comes to sales because he's addicted to it. he might accidently sell you a car and have to stop himself half way through.

whats scary is the blind conviction of anything that moves. of course i can only make judgement on peoples actions and not what im told just by what i see myself. and from what i saw i would keep my distance.

there a scary ass missguided cult. at least let them use that to do good in the world as agroup and not be proffit driven. i just cand stand them pushing the bibble on helpless bed ridden dying people who have no way to defend there own personell space. A guy with a tube in his lungs can't tell you get the fu$# away from me get off my bed take your hand off my cathider bag. it's like they take advantage of the situation to sell this crap to someone. what i don't get is what are you trying to sell if your not in this for cash what the fu@# do you want from these people.

it's disturbing. but what harm is actually done if they help people on top of that crap cause there told to help people.

I don't know what to fix here or what rpoblems to identify i'll just play it off like i have all the answers with a slight smile and never let them see anything less then total self confidence and an at ease manor. just got to imagine the theme from james bond when they start with the preaching that will make there whole plan of attack fall apart an they'll get frustrated. then maybee i'll see a crack in the armour. respond to every question or statement or accusation with a james bond smile every time and they will crack and fold as every effort they make is met with that reply. you would be surprised how often that tactic works in many life situations.

ohh i also keep getting letters from l ron hubbard and the continually changing names of the church of scien-tology. you can tell it's them because they allways use this 300 question multiple choice quiz. it starts off with ; do you sometimes say thing you regret or don't mean?; multiple choice : are you sometimes unhappy?: then it just draws peoples minds down this funnel. they have a large facility in Ybor city. Ybor city is a large heavy populated city with alot of commerce and store fronts. know almost entirley under the possesion of the church of scientology. they spent millions bying politicians hi-tech survalence all over the city, any property they can aquire. they monitor everything in the city there. they have bought and now own the formaly public trolly system old school trollies trains for public transport.

they have there own schools and library. all kinds of crap. for the most part though it just normal everyday life as usual. for all they do nothing has really changed in Ybor city still alot of good bars on the main strip. it still gets like the girls gone wild commercials downtown so who cares really

[Homicidalheathen]

Quote:

i don't want to give the wrong impression i don't think there being robbed cause the preacher is not really that bright...

Never underestimate the 'dumb' act some people throw out there to distract you while they rob you blind...