Lets just add to the population already

[Hellion]

Considering the U.S. economy is already falling apart as it is

http://news.yahoo.com/s/nm/20080912/ts_nm/...usa_refugees_dc

what do you think?

[TitsMcGee]

At least they're coming here legally.

[Hellion]

At least they're coming here legally.

Thats basically not the main point,its that there will be harder for people to find work.

[TitsMcGee]

Thats basically not the main point,its that there will be harder for people to find work.

It's already hard to find work, because the job market in this state sucks. I'm looking at it as that since they are getting in legally they will have to pay taxes and add to the economy which hopefully will open some more jobs up.

[freydis]

At least they're coming here legally.

.....and likely recieving higher priority than people from other countries, because of the goal.

seriously, though, i think DM has a point. Isn't it kind of stupid to be stretching our economy that much more?

[freydis]

It's already hard to find work, because the job market in this state sucks. I'm looking at it as that since they are getting in legally they will have to pay taxes and add to the economy which hopefully will open some more jobs up.

Michigan has the highest unemployment rate in the nation at 8.5%.

[Hellion]

Let alone disease,and yes mi has the shittiest economy,but alot of this country is doing really shitty as well.

we need to help our own people first.

[TitsMcGee]

we need to help our own people first.

I've been saying that for years, but its not like the governemnt people listen.

[Msterbeau]

And we can always go down the path of: There wouldn't be so damn many refugees if the Bush administration had taken us into this unfounded war with Iraq. That should open a nice can of worms.

[SaGa]

And we can always go down the path of: There wouldn't be so damn many refugees if the Bush administration had taken us into this unfounded war with Iraq. That should open a nice can of worms.

4 million or 16% of iraqs population in total. so 16,000 is a very small ammount. it just makes amarica look like a caring humanitarian country, even thou the iraq war we started. has left the country in pretty bad shape for the civilian population.

[Fin]

we need to help our own people first.

I've been saying that for years, but its not like the governemnt people listen.

The current GD f*cktard administration could have easily done both & saved 10 billion dollars a month simply by NOT entering Iraq in the first place. I can think of hundreds of worthy projects I'd rather use that money for than continuing a trumped up war & spending all that money overseas on a country we blew up.

This is why McCain has a long way to go in my book.

[SaGa]

The current GD f*cktard administration could have easily done both & saved 10 billion dollars a month simply by NOT entering Iraq in the first place. I can think of hundreds of worthy projects I'd rather use that money for than continuing a trumped up war & spending all that money overseas on a country we blew up.

This is why McCain has a long way to go in my book.

we cant leave something we blew up. that whould spell disaster. we already risk national security if we leave. it whould be a recruitment grounds the second we get out of there for anti-amarican agenda. and a bloody civil war that could put a tyrant back in goverment.

anyways its going to be a slow pull-out in conjunction with how strong iraqs goverment can maintain the control. where basicly getting there training wheels off, just the screws are very tight.

[Rev.Reverence]

It's already hard to find work, because the job market in this state sucks. I'm looking at it as that since they are getting in legally they will have to pay taxes and add to the economy which hopefully will open some more jobs up.

I believe they get 7 year 'grace' on tax... BS if you ask me... (I don't know if that's true..some shit I heard a while back)

[SaGa]

I believe they get 7 year 'grace' on tax... BS if you ask me... (I don't know if that's true..some shit I heard a while back)

amarica treats everyone but amaricans good. as crank whould put it

[Msterbeau]

we cant leave something we blew up. that whould spell disaster. we already risk national security if we leave. it whould be a recruitment grounds the second we get out of there for anti-amarican agenda. and a bloody civil war that could put a tyrant back in goverment.

Hello!! McFly!! It began to be a recruitment zone ten seconds after we entered the country.

[pomba gira]

I believe they get 7 year 'grace' on tax... BS if you ask me... (I don't know if that's true..some shit I heard a while back)

The 7 year tax break does apply to refugees in some circumstances... but refugee status is not easy to get, you pretty much have to have escaped from your homeland with nothing but the clothes on your back. I used to work closely with Refugee Services here in Lansing... what I saw was that these are extremely hard-working people no matter where they come from. Over the course of their lifetime here they are going to more than make up for those few tax-free years.

And, yeah, I have to agree with Marc on the "recruitment zone" thing. All the average Iraqui knows is that 6 years ago they could go to the grocery market without worrying about being blown up on the way... and since the American troops showed up, they can't.

[Destroit]

The current GD f*cktard administration could have easily done both & saved 10 billion dollars a month simply by NOT entering Iraq in the first place. I can think of hundreds of worthy projects I'd rather use that money for than continuing a trumped up war & spending all that money overseas on a country we blew up.

This is why McCain has a long way to go in my book.

War actually makes the economy of a country better, not worse. Starting from the top of the chain at the soldiers being paid all the way down to the people mining the raw material for tanks = jobs.

The American economy is shitty because of Americans, not the government. I'm sick of the American attitude where everyone is always looking for someone to blame but themselves. Sure the government has fucked up in the last few years, and by fucked up I mean Granholm. The economy seems really shitty to us people in Michigan for one reason and one reason only: Granholm. The country isn't even in a recession right now.

Let's start with the housing market that Americans, not the government, took down single handedly because we REALLY REALLY needed that brand new 52" flat screen TV so much so that we took equity out of our houses to pay for it...and never put that money back in.

Don't even get my started with credit cards, it's what caused the Great Depression in the 1930's and yet still...history repeats and Americans never learn the lesson...

Americans are to blame for the shitty economy. We're selfish, greedy, and now we have to live with it, imo. We need to really get it into our heads that if we're broke and we want something that isn't necessary to physically keep us living and breathing - do NOT buy it! It's called going without and it's a part of life, thank goodness.

[aequorea]

god forbid that we welcome refugees to america!

(yes, A M E R I C A, you're not gonna come off as an informed individual or even a patriot if you can't spell the name of your own country)

think for a minute - can YOU trace your family line back over at least 4 generations without finding an immigrant? because i know i can't. my father is an immigrant who came over here to be with my mother (his wife), worked his ass off, and became a citizen when i was in high school. i agree, illegal immigrants lead to a lot of social difficulties because they are dependent on resources such as emergency medical care but are no contributing through taxes, etc. however, this is not true of all immigrants.

besides, what do you suggest?

sorry we fucked your country! what, you want to come stay in ours? uhhh... (run and hide)

which brings us to the issue of precipitous withdrawal, which is one of the (many) reasons we became so unpopular in the first place.

hey, afganistan! yeah, we'd be happy to help you out! just not right now... yeah, gotta go now... good luck!

this is why it frustrates me to hear ANYONE advocating immediate unilateral withdrawal. we shouldn't have gone in. however, we're there now, and we need to clean up our mess. if the UN was a stronger, more physical presence, perhaps they could take over the stabilization process as a neutral party using US resources (because yes, it is our mess). but oh wait - bush helped castrate the UN during the whole WMD controversy.

sure UN, we'll wait for you to find the WMDs before we do anything... (tapping toe) umm, never mind! let's go!

and we rushed in, unprepared and irrational.

*sigh*

some other info, from a cooler, more rational, less soapbox-y perspective...

for my thesis, i studied cross cultural communication in public schools. i interviewed chaldean-american students, parents, and teachers, all of whom come from iraq. some were born there, some were born here, all of them felt very strong cultural ties to northern iraq. during my research and conversations, i learned some interesting things:

a) immigrant students tend to out-perform their peers, even if they speak english as a second language. why? well, most families who immigrate to a new country do so in the hope of improving their lives, and are aware that it will take hard work.

b) there are some ugly things happening in iraq due to the destabilization that we provoked. okay, that's not news. but i sat with a 15 year old girl who was scared and crying because her uncle (who lives in baghdad) had been kidnapped again by a local militia. he was being held for ransom. one of her cousins had been kidnapped, held for ransom, and then killed after they received the money, so there was no guarantee that paying would get him home safely. i found out a few weeks later that the girl's aunt had sold the family home to get the ransom money, and her uncle had been released. the family was then homeless and destitute.

i have heard similar stories from other students.

should political decisions be based on sympathy? no, of course not. however, i think it should be considered. to ignore the personal tragedies that are taking place on a national scale in iraq would be inhumane. welcoming a small number of hand-selected refugees is the least that we can do.

[Destroit]

god forbid that we welcome refugees to america!

(yes, A M E R I C A, you're not gonna come off as an informed individual or even a patriot if you can't spell the name of your own country)

think for a minute - can YOU trace your family line back over at least 4 generations without finding an immigrant? because i know i can't. my father is an immigrant who came over here to be with my mother (his wife), worked his ass off, and became a citizen when i was in high school. i agree, illegal immigrants lead to a lot of social difficulties because they are dependent on resources such as emergency medical care but are no contributing through taxes, etc. however, this is not true of all immigrants.

besides, what do you suggest?

sorry we fucked your country! what, you want to come stay in ours? uhhh... (run and hide)

which brings us to the issue of precipitous withdrawal, which is one of the (many) reasons we became so unpopular in the first place.

hey, afganistan! yeah, we'd be happy to help you out! just not right now... yeah, gotta go now... good luck!

this is why it frustrates me to hear ANYONE advocating immediate unilateral withdrawal. we shouldn't have gone in. however, we're there now, and we need to clean up our mess. if the UN was a stronger, more physical presence, perhaps they could take over the stabilization process as a neutral party using US resources (because yes, it is our mess). but oh wait - bush helped castrate the UN during the whole WMD controversy.

sure UN, we'll wait for you to find the WMDs before we do anything... (tapping toe) umm, never mind! let's go!

and we rushed in, unprepared and irrational.

*sigh*

some other info, from a cooler, more rational, less soapbox-y perspective...

for my thesis, i studied cross cultural communication in public schools. i interviewed chaldean-american students, parents, and teachers, all of whom come from iraq. some were born there, some were born here, all of them felt very strong cultural ties to northern iraq. during my research and conversations, i learned some interesting things:

a) immigrant students tend to out-perform their peers, even if they speak english as a second language. why? well, most families who immigrate to a new country do so in the hope of improving their lives, and are aware that it will take hard work.

b) there are some ugly things happening in iraq due to the destabilization that we provoked. okay, that's not news. but i sat with a 15 year old girl who was scared and crying because her uncle (who lives in baghdad) had been kidnapped again by a local militia. he was being held for ransom. one of her cousins had been kidnapped, held for ransom, and then killed after they received the money, so there was no guarantee that paying would get him home safely. i found out a few weeks later that the girl's aunt had sold the family home to get the ransom money, and her uncle had been released. the family was then homeless and destitute.

i have heard similar stories from other students.

should political decisions be based on sympathy? no, of course not. however, i think it should be considered. to ignore the personal tragedies that are taking place on a national scale in iraq would be inhumane. welcoming a small number of hand-selected refugees is the least that we can do.

+2 (one for the awesome post the second one for your totally awesome signature)

Another thing that makes me sick about America: We can only ever think of ourselves and what everyone can do for us as individuals, which is fucking disgusting.

If there's people out there in the world suffering like that and we're able to help, we should, even if it means, HEAVEN FORBID, we have to stop being gluttons and go without.

What is unpleasant and doesn't kill you makes you less of a whiny emo pussy. Fact.

I look forward to the prospect knowing that these people will have a fresh new beginning to life where there isn't so much strife and they can concentrate on living and pursuing happiness. It makes me very genuinely happy.

Yes, you can't save everyone, and I know that. Raven thinks I'm silly because whenever I see a stray cat (my friend's trailer park is full of them) I make a point to feed them and love them. Hell, there's one that I'm even buying a flea collar for because he's pretty infested. He thinks I'm silly because I shouldn't worry about what isn't mine (which appalls me, but okay, my philosophy is backwards in that I should be worrying about what isn't mine) and he says that I can't save them all. He's right, but I always say "You know, I know that I can't save them all...but I can help what is in front of me which is better than not ever helping at all." These Iraqi citizens need our help and so we should help them, it's the least we can do for starting shit in their country.

It's called the American Dream and it's what this country was founded on, freedom and a new beginning. If you don't like it and don't agree with it, then you're pretty much being unpatriotic, and you should probably move to France, imo.

[Fin]

we cant leave something we blew up. that whould spell disaster.

Hence my point that we should never have blown it up in the first place. The pro-war stance of McCain right from the get-go is really the only reason in my book that he is not competitive for my vote.

War actually makes the economy of a country better, not worse. Starting from the top of the chain at the soldiers being paid all the way down to the people mining the raw material for tanks = jobs.

This statement, though certainly true in the short term (eg, gearing up for a "shock & awe" takeover), has been largely discredited when these conflicts drag on for months & years. It's simply not true that war generates more money than profitable peace when balancing the books. That is a long-time hawk fabrication.

[Homicidalheathen]

eh, whats the difference...so many mexicans being let in already..if you saw Micheal moores movie you know what I am talking about...it drives down wages as they are willing to work for peanuts

I am mostly German and Irish, less than 25% cherokee (I think,,,not totally sure on the %) so I am not native either who am I to complain...

Actually wish I lived in France...free college and Medical

[phee]

We liberated their country when both their people and our people didn't want us to be there in the first place.... And now the same people who lied and caused the death of countless amounts of their people, and several thousand deaths of our own... are going to place the burdan on the people they lied to in the beginning....

I think something should be done for Iraq... but this....?

[Rev.Reverence]

The 7 year tax break does apply to refugees in some circumstances... but refugee status is not easy to get, you pretty much have to have escaped from your homeland with nothing but the clothes on your back. I used to work closely with Refugee Services here in Lansing... what I saw was that these are extremely hard-working people no matter where they come from. Over the course of their lifetime here they are going to more than make up for those few tax-free years.

And, yeah, I have to agree with Marc on the "recruitment zone" thing. All the average Iraqui knows is that 6 years ago they could go to the grocery market without worrying about being blown up on the way... and since the American troops showed up, they can't.

Sorry my peoples... I wrote that REALLY grumpy like...(I just noticed)... I was referring the BS statement to Immigrants getting a break... REFUGEES... a different subject...(noting a difference)...

[Rev.Reverence]

War actually makes the economy of a country better, not worse. Starting from the top of the chain at the soldiers being paid all the way down to the people mining the raw material for tanks = jobs.

The American economy is shitty because of Americans, not the government. I'm sick of the American attitude where everyone is always looking for someone to blame but themselves. Sure the government has fucked up in the last few years, and by fucked up I mean Granholm. The economy seems really shitty to us people in Michigan for one reason and one reason only: Granholm. The country isn't even in a recession right now.

Let's start with the housing market that Americans, not the government, took down single handedly because we REALLY REALLY needed that brand new 52" flat screen TV so much so that we took equity out of our houses to pay for it...and never put that money back in.

Don't even get my started with credit cards, it's what caused the Great Depression in the 1930's and yet still...history repeats and Americans never learn the lesson...

Americans are to blame for the shitty economy. We're selfish, greedy, and now we have to live with it, imo. We need to really get it into our heads that if we're broke and we want something that isn't necessary to physically keep us living and breathing - do NOT buy it! It's called going without and it's a part of life, thank goodness.

FUCK YEAH!!