> Star Wars Episode III, SPOILER THREAD

[Onyx]

Thought I'd start a thread for those who have already seen it and for those who don't mind spoilers.

I did enjoy the way the movie explained how Darth Vader came to be.

I won't elaborate much here, but I enjoyed it while I was watching, thought it was great fun, but it left a bad aftertaste. (something about small children being slaughtered with a sword and a pregnant woman being strangled by her once-adoring husband nauseates me). hrm.

I do have a question that someone else brought up. Remember in the Empire Strikes Back (I think they said) Luke and Leia were talking and he asked if she remembered their mother?

Didn't Leia say "Yes. I remember that she was kind of sad." How could she if she were dead right after they were born?

[Jarodaka]

Didn't Leia say "Yes.  I remember that she was kind of sad."  How could she if she were dead right after they were born?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

It's all about the Force!

Combine these things: some people claim to remember things when they were still in the womb. Padme fully realizing Annakin's turn to the Dark Side probably created a powerful disturbance in the Force. Leia is strong with the Force so she probably sensed the change and it could very well have left a memorable impression or vague memory in her mind.

/omg, I'm such a dork.

[Onyx]

Prenatal memories eh? and I thought I'd found a gaping plot hole.

(but StarWars is so logical)

[Jarodaka]

The part that really makes little sense to me is why Yoda and Obi Wan decide to face Palpatine and Vader separately. Did I miss something there? Why not take down Palpatine -- clearly the bigger threat since Vader without a master would be greatly weakened and lost? Vader, at that point, had embraced the Dark Side, but didn't have much control or mastery of it.

[Head Wreck]

hmm

for fucks sakes anakim is slow

were gonna do an add in spoof scene where palpatine confronts anakim about joining the sith

"LOOK FOR FUCKS SAKES, you fuckin slow or what I'M A FUCKIN SITH for fucksakes. been spelling it out to you for the whole movie and now you twig 20 seconds after i say it"

oh and sidious vs voda fight

action - palpatine silly face, crash, palpatine in another silly jibb.

those only two bad pointys in it

oh, that and jar-fuckin-jar didnt die, infact he fuckin spoke and was seen 3 times

[Scary Guy]

I hate the part where he finds out he killed his wife, such bad acting.

[Shade Everdark]

What I would like to know is what caused the Clone Army to turn on the Jedi, who were effectively their field commanders? Most cases, it's pretty difficult to trust your life to the orders of a commander and not develop some kind of bond of trust. And he didn't even gloss over anything Palpatine might have done to set up this Operation 66, in any case.

[Daevion]

What I would like to know is what caused the Clone Army to turn on the Jedi, who were effectively their field commanders?  Most cases, it's pretty difficult to trust your life to the orders of a commander and not develop some kind of bond of trust.  And he didn't even gloss over anything Palpatine might have done to set up this Operation 66, in any case.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Some kind of clone programming, maybe on the genetic level.....palpatine did manipulate everything from the beginning. Speculation though, I mean it would have been nice to have some kind of explanation of it.

[phee]

I must say I enjoyed the high FX cheesefest that the movie was... It was exactly what I was hoping for, bad acting lots-o-action, and most of all lightsabers.

and BTW... she did have adopted parents at the end... and in Episode 4 she did mention that Obi Wan served with her father during the Clone Wars, and we know whe wasn't refering to Skywalker... so I think she was refering to her adoptive mother.

Didn't Leia say "Yes. I remember that she was kind of sad." How could she if she were dead right after they were born?

[Troy Spiral (13)]

Went to the theater for the first time in a loooong time recently. I think the "film history gods" are going to send me to hell for what we saw instead of this. If we would have seen something further up the snoby film history buff food chain than what we did i might have narrowly escaped, but alas....

No not send me to film hell proper, but find me a special room in that hell for the especially horrific film sinners. Start up a slow napalm drip on my forehead. Then make me masturbate to pictures of Ashton Kutcher saying "whoaa.." with a clueless look on his face for the rest of eternity with a vanilla ice soundtrack playing in the background while Richard Simmons cheerleading saying "you can do it common ! one more time!!!!" Woe unto me till time indefinite , world without end. :laughing

[Sybil]

Went to the theater for the first time in a loooong time recently.  I think the "film history gods" are going to send me to hell for what we saw instead of this.  If we would have seen something further up the snoby film history buff food chain than what we did i might have narrowly escaped, but alas....

No not send me to film hell proper, but  find me a special room in that hell for the especially horrific film sinners. Start up a slow napalm drip on my forehead.  Then make me masturbate to pictures of Ashton Kutcher saying "whoaa.." with a clueless look on his face for the rest of eternity with a vanilla ice soundtrack playing in the background while Richard Simmons cheerleading saying "you can do it common ! one more time!!!!"  Woe unto me till time indefinite , world without end.  :laughing

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

:innocent hmm.. did you actually watch any of that movie?? i semm to remember.......

...none of it?

was Ashton in that movie? :whistling

[Sybil]

..back to the Star Wars discussion...

[The_Dark]

The Clones Turning on the Jedi:

They were genetically programed to be loyal to the Republic/Empire. The Chancler/Emporer outranks the Jedi.

Princess Lea remembering her mother:

What she actually remembed was her mother's sad eyes. She did see her mother at birth. The babys had their eyes open as soon as they were born.

[Goth Brooks]

Didn't Leia say "Yes.  I remember that she was kind of sad."  How could she if she were dead right after they were born?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Someone besides me remembering this, I am vindicated!

Personally I thought that was the only plothole in the movie. Other than that, the movie played out pretty much how I expected it to. I didn't like Vader crying at the end, I thought it would've more powerful if Anakin's voice over-rode the suit's. Instead it was just cheesy.

[Fierce Critter]

First, my spoiler movie review.

Most of what people said above applies. Bad dialogue, slow moments (I heard Jon snoring at one point and had to wake him up so he wouldn't bother the people sitting around us), etc.

They said a lot of that about the original movie (episode IV), but in retrospect, you can't deny that film's classic standing.

But something I just read in Rolling Stone's review hit home with me - lack of humor. The original and it's two immediate sequels (ep. V Empire & ep. VI Return/Jedi) had a distinct sense of humor. These prequels, including this one, were deeply lacking in that sense of humor that gave the original it's distinctly "old western" wink. And sorely needing a Han Solo to elbow everybody in the ribs and remind them to "take it easy."

These prequels, including this one, took themselves much, much, much too seriously. No thank you, Lucas.

But all that said, after leaving the theater, my overall feel was that I did like the movie, I liked it a lot more than episodes I and II, and that, particularly the last half hour, satisfied my need for a link to episode IV.

I loved the special effects. I loved the light sabre duels (I'm a sucker for sword fighting), I loved the characters.

So overall, I was satisfied with it.

The main thing I had a problem with, however, was what I considered the much, much too easy plot device/explaination for Anakin's turn to the dark side. I thought it would have worked a lot better and made a LOT more sense for him to have gone to Obi Wan or the other Jedi council members with his concerns first, and 1) had them refuse to help him save Padme; 2) had them summarily drum him out of the Jedi's 3) the final, brutal blow be having Obi Wan turn his back on him. All of which would have left him basically with no one to turn to, no more Jedi identity, and desperate. Then, I would have been able to buy his embrace of the dark side.

I thought the scene where Mace & Palpatine confront each other in front of Anakin was handled confusingly. So Mace was about to kill Palpatine and that's not the Jedi way... Well, it was Palpatine who goaded Anakin into killing Dooku, and he sure went with that decision easy enough. It wasn't enough for me to buy Anakin suddenly becoming a child killer - especially when his sensibilities were such that he was trying to save his pregnant wife.

And I will agree - the scene of him learning of the death of Padme and busting his way off the med board almost made me laugh - it gave me a deja vu feeling of watching a Frankenstein movie.

One last thought. My sister, then a film student, mentioned at the time of Jedi the concept of light core/dark core. Basically, that key characters in films are motivated by either a light core - innate goodness, or dark core - innate evil. She explained at the time that Darth Vader was basically light core - which proved itself out in Return/Jedi.

Which brings me back to how easily Anakin's character was swayed to the dark side and such immediate evil. As a light-core character, you need a very, very strong argument for accepting his embrace of such deep evil. I seriously feel that was lacking here.

/review

Now for a bit of trivia that I find personally amusing. I'm a big fan of the 60's/70's horror films made by the Hammer studios. Two of their prime actors were Christopher Lee and Peter Cushing. Star Wars, episode IV, begins with Peter Cushing as the Grand Mof Tarken, head-honcho bad guy. The prequels end with head-honcho (besides Palpatine) bad guy being Christopher Lee.

Just sayin'.

And a final thought. I was 9 when the original film came out. I clearly and distinctly recall there was a "something" in the air about that movie. Something palpable & so totally different, it was hard to put your finger on, yet inescapable. I was a victim to it's marketing even before I saw it. I remember being at the Michigan State Fair, seeing they had Star Wars t-shirts for sale, and feeling a desperate, undeniable need to have one of those shirts. I got my shirt, and wore it proudly.

When the film finally came out, there was such an aura about it. You knew it was something so different, so unusual that even if you didn't like it, you were affected by the simple fact of its existence. And I'm not even talking about related marketing - I'm talking just "living in the time of Star Wars".

This was pre-SW Fanatic. I'm not talking about people dressing the part and standing in line for tickets - that hadn't really happened yet. It's so hard to put it into words - those of us on the board old enough to have had some kind of conscious mind at the time will probably know what I'm talking about.

I think those of us who were around to experience that effect first-hand (and those of us who give a damn) may be a bit more affected by care for the characters than care for the fanatical geekdom that goes on around everything Star Wars. We invested ourselves in Luke, Leia, Han, the droids, and the rest in a very real way. When I put on the Princess Leia costume my sister made me for Halloween, I WAS Leia, and I understood her plight, felt her strength, and wanted to know where she came from.

Prequels were discussed, and we heard about them ad-infinitum. We waited. We anticipated. And that went on so long, we got tired of waiting. The need for immediate gratification was not met, and I think a lot of us started to become indifferent.

I think a lot of us wanted the feel the original gave us. A wordless reverence that was inescapable. When these prequels finally came out, that wasn't there. True investment in character was replaced by "who's the fan with the most authentic costume/who stood in line the longest for opening night/etc." It seemed almost a perversion of something that once seemed very pure & awesome.

I can review these films with a critical eye for film as a technical thing. But in the end, I am mostly looking for fulfilment of a need to know where the characters I loved (even Darth Vader) came from. That was basically satisfied by these films. It's not the dialogue, the special effects, or any of that I needed. It was explanations & history, and that's what I got. And for that, my wait is over, and I am finally greatful.

[Jarodaka]

What do you call a guy with no arms and no legs next to a pool of lava?

[paradox]

darth vader????