The politics of DGN

[Homicidalheathen]

Recently I guess I upset some people by using the term F**. I am not sure why....if I used it I was probably referring to myself as a f** hag....I do call myself....lesbo....carpet muncher.....I guess thats still ok....

In the gay community to which I am very much a part....we use the term f** allot. If not just to soften the term so it is not so derrogitory....I don't know....we just think its funny.

Just so you all know I am probably the most gay friendly woman on this site.

I have my girlfreind for the year....will probably have sex with her a few times....then move on.....

Still lookikng for my bi guy on guy fantasy....two men who want each other and me, not just me or each other...long story.

So that being said I will try to be careful...and if their are two cute clean bi guys on here who like to both suck cock and eat pussy and fuck IM me. So there.

[Fierce Critter]

The use of terms in a derogatory method is something I've battled for years here on DGN. Sometimes even battling co-mods and administrators when I was a mod myself.

As a fat, blonde Polish woman, I'm particularly sensitive to non-pc use of terms. I also happen to be pretty open-minded and the relative of several gay people, including one who has been in an exclusive relationship with a black man for probably 20 years or so. So my list of "acceptable" negative terms is admittedly pretty freaking short.

I've often spewed, sometimes in private, sometimes in moderator-only forums, sometimes publicly about how I feel when people on DGN use terms like gay in a derogatory fashion. Such as, "I have to wear a gay fucking uniform". Sometimes approaching the subject in a humorous way has been all it took to get someone to edit their post. Such as, "Oh - your uniforms prefer relationships with uniforms of the same sex?"

Thankfully, the "dumb Polack" thing never seems to come up here on DGN, thank goodness. And basically, I can't fight the fat/blonde thing - it's just too acceptable in society to bash the fat - everybody does it, everybody. I mean, I can see jerkoffs like Howard Stern, but it actually saddens me to hear Conan O'Brien's constant monologue bits about Kirstie Alley & Star Jones - Star Jones has been out of the spotlight for how long and he's STILL making jokes about her weight? Come on already. It's so school-playground easy.

Anyway...

As to the gay/fag thing. To me, the use of the word fag falls under the same guidelines as using nigger/nigga. Fine for people of that persuasion to use amongst each other and in reference to self - but NOT fine when used by others. You will NEVER hear me use the word nigger in reference to another person. I can't even freaking sing along with songs that use the term, it's just too tainted for me. But I understand how the African/American community has reclaimed the word for themselves, and I respect that. (I'm not near that kind of acceptance of Polack, and never will be. Grrr...) Likewise, I "get" how homosexuals can use the term fag in reference to self and each other and don't personally have a problem with that, nor do I think I should.

But considering the nature of DGN as a "goth" board, I am personally infuriated when, in particular, I see the term "gay" used to refer to something in a negative fashion. It's no secret that goths/punks and the other "types" who regularly inhabit things like DGN, City Club, etc. are themselves social outcasts subject to the scorn, derision & attacks of a misunderstanding, closed-minded society. Why it should be acceptable in any way, then, to allow or at the very least NOT discourage such usage of terms is unfathomable to me.

I can't find fault with you for using fag in the way you have described. But I wish others would think twice before using such terms like they would "ugly, stupid, ridiculous, etc.".

[Onyx]

I didn't think you meant it in a bad way, but sometimes we need to think about how harsh text can seem. It's really different than speaking in person because you don't have body language or voice to give a clue to meanings. In person, it'soften not what you say but how you say it (tone of voice, etc).

Personally I have posted stuff that has come close to costing me a very dear friend (this was several years ago). It's hard to say what impression a word might give sometimes. (For instance I had no idea the word Oriental when referring to people was a derogatory term until someone pointed it out to me).

[phee]

I didn't think you meant it in a bad way either.... but I know you, so others who don't... well you know

[Paper Hearts]

So fucking is good then?

[Onyx]

So fucking is good then?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Yes! The movie industry says so!

[Dollardave]

Is the word phag ok? LOL

[torn asunder]

...(For instance I had no idea the word Oriental when referring to people was a derogatory term until someone pointed it out to me).

i had an asian friend online a while back, who had no problems with this word, and even used it in in normal conversation, until one day her college professor explained "why it's offensive". (my understanding is that "oriental" is used for inanimate objects, although i'm still not sure why it's a big deal) from that point, she got mad/upset when others used it.

now - i'm sorry, but if someone has to tell you you should be offended, well, you deserve to be offended. in fact, other people can't offend you - the only thing that can is your interpretation/reaction to others, which is completely within your control. (but i digress...) :erm

[Shade Everdark]

If you shouldn't say it with an f, you shouldn't say it with a ph.

[Paper Hearts]

Imagine how many different things are out there fucking right now! Someone has got to put a stop to it!

[Onyx]

Imagine how many different things are out there fucking right now! Someone has got to put a stop to it!

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Yeah. Especially since I wasn't invited

[Paper Hearts]

Yeah.  Especially since I wasn't invited 

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Do they make invitations for that?

[Steven]

this in general is the difficulty with online conversation...when you dont have eyes to look into and cant hear the inflections of a person's voice, were left to ourselves to decide how and what is being said. Its tough.

However - I do hold fast to the beleif that a person who becomes offended chose to do so, and can likewise choose not to.

Fucken-A

[Homicidalheathen]

I even had someone get mad at me for using the term 'ghetto'....I do use the N word when with my freinds in pontiac and S of 8 Ml but they see me as a sista.....or whatever. I don't understand why I can use it with them but if I say it around here I swear, I will be shot.

Words are just words....but I think I have to be careful because of younger people on here who are new and don't know me. I don't want to turn anyone away......I can just imagine if someone only saw one of my posts for the first time what they might think lol I am pretty frickin out there. Hey I didn't say fuck...oh too late......almost made one complete whole posting without saying the other 'F' word.

By the way.....guys who look good in dresses are hot.

[Fierce Critter]

However - I do hold fast to the beleif that a person who becomes offended chose to do so, and can likewise choose not to.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I hear this over and over and over again. And I can honestly see the logic behind it.

But unless you've been on the receiving end on a consistent basis, I really don't think you can understand just how much it can wear you down. It's tiresome, and just so negative.

In some circumstances, it's the hate behind the slander that's what bothers people on the receiving end. The words may only hold so much weight, true. But the ignorance, negativity & hatred behind those words isn't as easy to shrug off.

And in some circumstances, what's painful is the stereotype or beliefs that go with the slander that's particularly hard to deal with. For instance, the "dumb polack" thing started because of all the Poles who immigrated to the U.S. and couldn't speak English. "dumb" referred to the communication problem, NOT the intelligence. But over time, it's come to mean stupid - "I did something so Polish today" is just one way "dumb polack" has been further twisted to portray Poles as stupid.

I just get so sick of it.

[JaneDead]

Is the word phag ok?  LOL

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

you mean like "phee is a phag and we should smoke him"?

someone called my son a fag once and he asked me what it meant. and i told him. later on my husband told me i should have told him it meant cigarette. i was like yeah that is all i need- for him to go to school and say "my dad smokes fags".

[Brenda Starrr]

Anyway...

As to the gay/fag thing. To me, the use of the word fag falls under the same guidelines as using nigger/nigga. Fine for people of that persuasion to use amongst each other and in reference to self - but NOT fine when used by others. You will NEVER hear me use the word nigger in reference to another person. I can't even freaking sing along with songs that use the term, it's just too tainted for me. But I understand how the African/American community has reclaimed the word for themselves, and I respect that. (I'm not near that kind of acceptance of Polack, and never will be. Grrr...) Likewise, I "get" how homosexuals can use the term fag in reference to self and each other and don't personally have a problem with that, nor do I think I should.

But considering the nature of DGN as a "goth" board, I am personally infuriated when, in particular, I see the term "gay" used to refer to something in a negative fashion. It's no secret that goths/punks and the other "types" who regularly inhabit things like DGN, City Club, etc. are themselves social outcasts subject to the scorn, derision & attacks of a misunderstanding, closed-minded society. Why it should be acceptable in any way, then, to allow or at the very least NOT discourage such usage of terms is unfathomable to me.

.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

That's what I'm saying. FC can always put my thoughts into words I can't seem to form. The majority of my friends are gay, and call each other "fags", yet I can't do it myself, just as FC pointed out. In text, it comes off as incredibly harsh. I'm sorry, but I just don't like seeing the word used the way I see it here, whether or not it's offensive to any of our gay, bi, or tranny members. That's just me (and apparently FC as well.)

[Guest Game of Chance]

you mean like "phee is a phag and we should smoke him"?

someone called my son a fag once and he asked me what it meant. and i told him. later on my husband told me i should have told him it meant cigarette. i was like yeah that is all i need- for him to go to school and say "my dad smokes fags".

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Ha Ha....

[Guest Game of Chance]

I disagree 100%. People need to stop being so oversensitive about everything.

I have friends black and caucasian that refer to me as their "nigga".

Everytime I see my closest gay friend, one or the other (me or him) always greets with, "How's my little bitch?" or "What's up fag?"

He knows my feelings on male homosexuality. I'm straight, but I don't care what the hell he does with his free time. Its none of my business.

I have a new favorite saying for my male friends. "Man up." In other words, get over it.

Maybe I should develop one for my female friends as well.

P.S. I am merely stating my opinion, and I do not want to get involved in a heated discussion. You're not going to change my point of view, but I felt it was important to have the opposite viewpoint here.

[Fierce Critter]

Not fanning a heated discussion, but I can't help but point a few things out.

First, you are neither black nor gay. So of course - being called nigga or fag isn't going to phase you.

Sensitivity can be fostered by time & persistence. I spent my life dealing with various variations of the "fat/blonde/polish" slurs, and there comes a time when you've just had enough.

[Brenda Starrr]

I come from a German/Irish?Italian family. I seriously dislike being called a Kraut or a WOP (WithOut Papers). It's rude. Or, "You're Irish! I bet you can drink!." No, circus freak, I can't. Alcohol makes me ill, with the exception of wine. And just because I'm Italian doesn't mean I can just chug that vino.

A lot of my gay friends have suffered some serious persecution from so-called open-minded people. I'm just not thrilled with it.

How would one feel if someone said something derogatory about someone you cared about ethnicity/sexual preferences/look, whatever? Repeatedly. You know, when the insults don't end? Tell me that it doesn't offend you in some way. And, you carry it with you. My gay friends tell me that I'm a Fag Hag. To me, that's an honor. However, I don't run around calling them fags. They may not appreciate it. Everyone's feelings and thoughts are different, and I respect that. But, in the end, some of us expect our feelings and wishes to be respected as well.

[Guest Game of Chance]

Not fanning a heated discussion, but I can't help but point a few things out.

First, you are neither black nor gay. So of course - being called nigga or fag isn't going to phase you.

Sensitivity can be fostered by time & persistence. I spent my life dealing with various variations of the "fat/blonde/polish" slurs, and there comes a time when you've just had enough.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I don't believe you've met my parents or know my sexual history.

lol...i was the only Italian at a school in Grosse Pointe where all the kids were named Ford, or their parents owned professional sports teams. You don't think I got my fair share of slurs? My nickname in high school was Dago for crying out loud.

Let me ask you this...Do you think for a moment I allowed it to slow me down in my development as a human being? If I did...who wins? Me or them?

Whining about it is never going to stop people from doing it. If they're not saying things about you to your face, they'll say them to your back. At least this way we have everything out in the open. Its easier to develop a sharp tongue and a thick skin.

I guess an easy way to understand how I feel is...I just don't give a f@#$...and I don't understand why anyone else does either.

[Steven]

By the way.....guys who look good in dresses are hot.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

heeellllllllllllllllll no.

[Steven]

I hear this over and over and over again. And I can honestly see the logic behind it.

But unless you've been on the receiving end on a consistent basis, I really don't think you can understand just how much it can wear you down. It's tiresome, and just so negative.

In some circumstances, it's the hate behind the slander that's what bothers people on the receiving end. The words may only hold so much weight, true. But the ignorance, negativity & hatred behind those words isn't as easy to shrug off.

And in some circumstances, what's painful is the stereotype or beliefs that go with the slander that's particularly hard to deal with. For instance, the "dumb polack" thing started because of all the Poles who immigrated to the U.S. and couldn't speak English. "dumb" referred to the communication problem, NOT the intelligence. But over time, it's come to mean stupid - "I did something so Polish today" is just one way "dumb polack" has been further twisted to portray Poles as stupid.

I just get so sick of it.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Critter.

I'm a Mexican.

All my life I've been asked "what color are you"????

I've also been called spic, Juan, Beaner, you get it.

I dont speak spanish (not really)

My Lation bretheren therefore do not accept me.

Call me a wannabee (wanaabee one of you whities)

I'm also a Christian.

All kinds of creative things I've been called and accused of for that one.

When I was a kid I was the dreaded Jehovah's Witness freak in class.

So beleive me, I get it.

But I'd be pissed every ten minutes if I let this kind of crap get to me.

I know who I am..... I dont ask anyones permission. (they dont get it anyway).

Steven

[torn asunder]

I spent my life dealing with various variations of the "fat/blonde/polish" slurs, and there comes a time when you've just had enough.

(this is not specifically directed at FC, but i wanted to use it for an example)

and this is what, i think, the point is - it's your *choice* to have "had enough". fact is, as long as you let anything someone else says "get to you", you will never be in control of your own life - they will, and why would you allow anyone that kind of control over your emotions? that's the part i just don't get...