"...The Lost Art Of Courting"

[Marblez]

Instant Gratification & the Lost Art of Courting

I happen to believe that the "discovery" phase is the most important and perhaps the most exciting part of any relationship. We are all so quick to decide that someone is "the one", while only having learned the most superficial aspects of their lives, mannerisms and persona. All too often this results in only seeing the person as they want to be seen, instead of for who they really are.

This weekend, I have found myself contemplating the number of men and women today that think that a good relationship is something that just magically appears out of nowhere. You have seen it, several times undoubtedly. The couple that professes their love, often convincingly, just shortly after meeting. Many of us seem to be looking for the instant "love at first sight", that ONE that reciprocates all of our current goals and desires. We want the one with whom we just "click", requiring little to no investment of the time and effort that is involved learning about and loving eachother.

As you read this, consider the dramatic increase of the divorce rate in just the last few decades. Think of how often you have heard someone say that they didn't know their partner as well as they had thought, or "if only I knew then what I know now"? How much time and heartache could you have saved even yourself if you spent a little more time getting to know your potential mates prior to a romantic commitment.

Often I wonder what happened to the stories that I grew up with. Stories that go something like this: Boy meets girl. Boy likes girl, Boy shyly asks for a date and steals a kiss. Occaisional sentimental gifts of flowers and candy, small gestures like opening doors and calls to say even nothing at all each tell her that he is respectful and caring. As time goes by, the effort is rewarded when he realizes that he has stolen her heart....and they live happily ever after.

This was the standard for years upon years, was it not? When did wooing take such a steep turn, leaving "boy meets girl...and they live happily ever after" to little girls fairy tales? How is it that the idea of "courting" a potential mate was lost? I have a few ideas, each of which probably share a bit in the blame.

Did courting fall victim to the sexual revolution? If so, I wonder if the women of the last few generations realize exactly what they were sacrificing in favor of "equality"? Being a single mother with a mortgage to pay, I can definitely appreciate the idea of equal pay for equal work. Unfortunately, in the process of gaining more respect in the workplace, we have lost much of the inherited respect and adoration of the opposite sex as gentle and womanly, lovers, wives and mothers. Perhaps the compromise was not exactly in our best interest.

Our advanced technologies and increasingly fast-paced society has gotten us so used to "your way-right away", that we don't really have the interest in working for the things we want in our lives. It seems that life may be so easy and automatic now that we are just too lazy to spend the time to locate and develop a relationship with our "Mr. or Miss Right". Instead we bounce from one "instant love" to the next in hopes of finding a lavish gourmet meal at Burger King around the next corner.

[Homicidalheathen]

I feel very fortunate that I met the right guy in spite of having sex the first night we met.

I would not do this now. Actually, I thought I had jinxed it by doing that. I know you have to be sexually compatible and all but....

Having sex the first night makes me think he just wants sex, and that he is not sincere. Doesn't care about getting to know me.....will burn hot and run out of gas....(the relationship part)

Even when we meet couples now we don't do it the first night. Is it so wrong to want at least a freind connection and not just sex?

I think maybe your right! Too many women out there just putting out ruin it for the rest of them. We need romance, soft touches....talk....it makes the sex hotter! It gets old. Boring even, just hooking up.

One way though you can tell a player who has no moral values is someone who will dump you if you don't put out fast enough.

The problem being, there are too many people like that out there these days.

I remember getting mad at my man after two months of dating because he wanted to skip going to a concert and just stay home and have sex.

I wanted to see the show! We can fuck anytime, I told him.

Now it is the opposite, he has gotten it enough from me and often enough anyway that he can wait and would go to the concert.

I love romance........gazing into someone's eyes.......getting to know them. Not just hooking up. So as swingers, we are not the norm and spend many nights by ourselves. We honestly just want freinds we can share our love with........not people who want sex then never talk to you.

[holliwood66]

Courting isn't a lost art. It just takes putting the brakes on at key moments. I didn't jump into bed with Zhuk, but waited until 3 or so months of steadily seeing him. If we were to dissolve I would likely follow a similar plan to make sure the person is who I think he is.

I get crushes easily but passing fancies have never really turned my head. I don't believe at love at first sight - but I have felt a strong affinity with certain people after just a few meetings~ Still, not enough to profess undying admiration and ardour for them. *ponders*

[Scary Guy]

First comes the superficial, once those requirements are met then I get to the "hello" stage :D

I think we've had the argument of "it's not love at first sight it's lust at first sight" before though.

Oh yeah monogamy and chivalry are both dead as well, just FYI.

[saechalyn]

I'm not a romantic so I don't care much about gifts or cutesy gestures. But I've always taken a long time to get to know a person, even if we are just friends. I can't even be comfortable around a person just after meeting them, much less fall in love. Hell even my (few, rare) casual flings have been with people I've known for a while.

[JaneDead]

First comes the superficial, once those requirements are met then I get to the "hello" stage :D

I think we've had the argument of "it's not love at first sight it's lust at first sight" before though.

Oh yeah monogamy and chivalry are both dead as well, just FYI.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

what do you mean monogamy is dead?

i have been married for almost 7 years and with him for a year before that at least. so for 8+ years i have been with only one person. and as far as i KNOW he has only been with me too. as long as we are married i plan on being with him and only him.

[Homicidalheathen]

We were Monogomus for 11 years but got married knowing we would one day be in an open relationship.

Weird huh.

[Steven]

i really liied this topic and the way Marblez presented it.

and she's right. "I want it now." Instant gratification is how we live our lives these days, and in the process we have killed off the worth of everyday living.

we live in phases, or stages of developmetn I beleive.

Yes - you should invest the time to really know your potential partner before they become your partner. But it should not end there. IN a fruitful relationship you both need to keep growing. Not only for yourselves, but also for the benefit of our partners.

My wife has an amazing sense of natural wisdom that she does not even recognize. She works very hard - to live well with quality and sincerity and goodness and to improve herself. I watch that process, have been watching it for years....she grows, and I get to discover that as it happens. There is a big difference in simply being a different person because 10 years go by - from being a different person because ten intentional years went by. The difference is huge. And its exciting. And it sexy. And it creates hope.

But - you dont get that way NOW - by demanding it NOW. Thats impossible.

I also beleive that the sexual revolution (exactly what is so revolutionary about it by the way, I mean really, its just sex, its not oxygen) hurt us as well. I understand it, participated in it, revelled in it, and lost myself in it. It feels good.....to do what you want when you want to. But that's not reality on a day to day basis is it? I cant just "do what I want" at work. Or "Pay what I want" for groceries and my mortgage. Things cost. Cost equates to value. When you give yourself away for nothign, to strangers, you price yourself at nothing.

Whats the cost to do what you will with me???

oh, nothing.

I have had to learn, to un-learn.

Almost everything I used to embrace I now reject.

So that I might have something real.

[Scary Guy]

So that I might have something real.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

But reality is based on perspective and point of view. Reality is constantly changing (usually these days for the worse).

My friend (along with many other people) say(s) that people weren't made to have just one mate in their lives. This is true, by design they aren't, they just choose to (most of the time).

This is the age of instant gratificaiton. Instant IM's, cell phone calls, microwavable 3 minute meals, on demand TV and PVR's (personal video recorder), downloadable music and movies before they're released to open market (and if you have the cash, whores for instant sex lol).

Some things shouldn't be instant though. Rome wasn't built in a day, most of the finest art wasn't created in a day, and myself and you people didn't grow to who we are now in a day. If we did we wouldn't have the valuable life experiences that we do now. It takes time to gain those and build not just relationships but long lasting friendships with people too.

[soothsayer]

Courting?

IMO courting and chivalry are dead. Many men today feel that a woman (or women) are just floating from one guy to another. A guy will take a woman out many times and then the woman will decide that, even though the guy treated her extremely well she wants to move on to the next available man that is showing interest. This seems to happen alot in todays world. Men are just getting tired of meeting woman that only want to date as many men as they can. I don't blame my gender for seeing it that way.

[Steven]

Courting?

IMO courting and chivalry are dead. Many men today feel that a woman (or women) are just floating from one guy to another. A guy will take a woman out many times and then the woman will decide that, even though the guy treated her extremely well she wants to move on to the next available man that is showing interest. This seems to happen alot in todays world. Men are just getting tired of meeting woman that only want to date as many men as they can. I don't blame my gender for seeing it that way.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

But this leads us (if we so choose) back to the painful process of placing high levels of value in oneself and one's ideals and life plans and then following through.

Example 1: although its difficult to find time to meet people - I always wonder why people go searching for prospective mates....in a bar or club. The atmosphere itself is completely temporal, and not really conducive to meeting people who are seeking out other potential life partners. Instead (and nothign wrong with this) theyre seeking a short term good time and some basic escape. But I would not go to the cookie store in search of vitamins.

At this stage in my life (if I were single) I would not date a woman - who was dating a bunch of men. Nor would I date a woman - who has an ongoing lifestyle of promiscuity. Which means, that I wouldent date much.

To be fair - I also would not just go out to the local bible belt and pick up the preacher's daughter, thats not realistic either, I need somone who's edgy- and can relate to my past and what drives me. Somone who is an indipendent thinker with gifts and tools that I too can learn from. And also somone who sticks to their scuples and is articulate.

So once again.... I probably would not date much. What I'm describing is tough to find - yet - mathmatically impossible to deny that she exists. She's out there.

I'd gladly be willing to pay that lonly price to set myself aside for a woman who likewise - has set herself aside. If I'm living my life a certain way, and working hard on it - I do beleive tha in time I'll cross lines with someone who is doing the same thing.

There is the process of dating and the single life that is very real and disconcerting.

But there is also - YOU.

I'd choose the latter and go from there.

[JaneDead]

Courting?

IMO courting and chivalry are dead. Many men today feel that a woman (or women) are just floating from one guy to another. A guy will take a woman out many times and then the woman will decide that, even though the guy treated her extremely well she wants to move on to the next available man that is showing interest. This seems to happen alot in todays world. Men are just getting tired of meeting woman that only want to date as many men as they can. I don't blame my gender for seeing it that way.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

and- it happens the other way around. a girl meets a guy, they go out a few times, the guy moves on to another girl. i know MANY more guy "floaters" than woman "floaters" though i have known women to be like this too. and like-wise women get sick of this too when it happens to them! which is why we end up with a world full of jaded and hurt people who want to dismiss love and the time it takes to get to that point in a relationship.

which i guess goes right back to the instant gratification problem...

[LuluVox]

Did courting fall victim to the sexual revolution? If so, I wonder if the women of the last few generations realize exactly what they were sacrificing in favor of "equality"? Being a single mother with a mortgage to pay, I can definitely appreciate the idea of equal pay for equal work. Unfortunately, in the process of gaining more respect in the workplace, we have lost much of the inherited respect and adoration of the opposite sex as gentle and womanly, lovers, wives and mothers. Perhaps the compromise was not exactly in our best interest.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Right, if only the women who started that whole "equality in the workplace" thing realized what it would do to their reputations as gentle and womanly lovers, they probably would have rethought the whole thing and just said, "Fuck it, who needs equality? I'll just go and bake another cake now."

I do understand what you're saying for the most part, I guess, but this particular part rather pissed me off.

[HipsterDufus]

Right, if only the women who started that whole "equality in the workplace" thing realized what it would do to their reputations as gentle and womanly lovers, they probably would have rethought the whole thing and just said, "Fuck it, who needs equality? I'll just go and bake another cake now."

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I would ask them if working some shitty office job, sitting on their butts all day is better than baking a cake. Personally, I'd rather be baking... Not that I can speak for women. Maybe its just me. I do like some good cookies now and then, though...

[The_Dark]

Chivalry and monogamy are dead? pffft. Maybe for you...

I happen to be one of the Men trying to keep Chivalry alive and I am teaching my sons to do the same.

I've been with my wife for almost 11 years, never cheated... I was with my first wife 6 years, never cheated. Not all of us have given up on love and devotion.

[Saephyr]

Coming from a recently broken heart...monogamy isn't dead but it's not desired in may ways. It's risky in the way that you may get hurt.

I don't believe monogamy was designed for ME but that is me. I just shatter when things don't go well.

Physical exchanges are fantastic. most times , and if we risk our feelings to have one then so be it. You damn well better have an idea of what the other person wants before hand.

I had monogamy for 8 years in my first phoney marriage. What a joke! It was 2 young fools who may have loved but one just had to spread it around as much as he could like he was afraid he was dying or something!

The 2nd time I had it, it was real love, diverse, friendly, fun, sad, tragic and we never expected to be apart since we were best friends as well. He began our relationship fast but very much like an old school loves simultaneously. We had a wonderful 8 years until illness beat us both down. Now ...we're just friends and see each other on holidays, even my former boyfriend got along with him so why not? I mean...why is it that it seems people would NEVER risk something of themselves to win love? No dragon, no duels, no secret letters or meetings in the night for plain conversations.

I know men love to be cared for and pampered because I do just that when I have one in my life. I do it to make him feel how I'd like to feel. NOTE FELLAS...if they treat you some exceptional way, that means they'd like it in return behaviors dictate desires =)

I think...if men treated women like they were FEMALE. EVEN just as lovers and not for the whole of life...Put forth effort in the game of loving...we'd all at least end up liking each other when it's over if we didn't break the bonds and be friendly ever after.

That's true love...for some.

[JaneDead]

Right, if only the women who started that whole "equality in the workplace" thing realized what it would do to their reputations as gentle and womanly lovers, they probably would have rethought the whole thing and just said, "Fuck it, who needs equality? I'll just go and bake another cake now."

I do understand what you're saying for  the most part, I guess, but this particular part rather pissed me off.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

i agree. but lulu you forgot to add "i'll go put on my make up and dress and heels and bake another cake now while i make sure the house is clean and the kids are behaving all without breaking a sweat now" ok maybe that is a bit much but when i read that i got a vision of the "perfect" 50's housewife. blech.

[saechalyn]

I would ask them if working some shitty office job, sitting on their butts all day is better than baking a cake. 

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

You're damn right it is. At least for me. Financial independence and supporting myself, even with a crappy office job, are VERY important to me. (That and I hate cooking. A lot.)

[Aralis]

I do not believe monogamy and courting are dead. I do think that courting is a very rare thing these days though.

I look at my best friend who is a single mother and she goes thru men like water. She sees one guy for awhile and then its onto the next one. Some of them have given her a good reason to give them the boot but its just like she is always looking for someone else better or whatever. Its like she is never entirely happy with the current guy. I know she is lonely and eager to settle down but it seems like she gets annoyed with them after a bit and then tosses them to the curb for someone new.

My husband and I are monogamous. We would never have it any other way.

He spent a year of being alone and unsure and courting me while I was in an unhappy relationship with no future. It took me a year to finally get the courage and to move on. But he waited and was always there for me and when I finally did move out we were together and things got even better for the both of us as a couple.

[Blackmail]

did someone mention cake?

[Aralis]

nope

[Marblez]

did someone mention cake?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

This thread is meant to be serious discussion, please refrain form comments intended to derail the subject. Thank You.