Prayer at an office party

[HipsterDufus]

Okay, so some background first. There’s a lady at work who embezzled about $20000 from a previous doctor’s office before she came to work at my company. When she got hired into my company, she hadn’t yet been convicted on these charges so she technically answered truthfully when she said she had not been convicted of a felony. So, anyway, she starts working here while the investigation and trial is going on. In the meantime, she “finds God” at my boss’s church (i.e. she finds a group of people who will support her family while she’s in jail.) So she gets convicted and sent to jail for a year and a half. She gets out of jail and my boss takes her back as a medical biller (same job as me). Don’t even get me started on how stupid this was…

Fast forward to last Friday at our office Christmas party. It’s at a golf club a little ways out of Grand Rapids. The ex-convict’s husband is DJ’ing the party and as he announces that we’re going to eat, he tells us that he’s going to say a prayer first. Now, keep in mind, this is not even an attempt all-inclusive prayer. It went something like this: “Dear God, thank you so much for sending your only son to die on the cross for our sins and be raised again after three days in the tomb. We know that you did not have to and we know that we are all sinners in your eyes. We know that we need to accept you into our hearts in order to feel the power of your redemption. Please remind us of that on this celebration of your birthday.”

I’m sorry, but I did not find this appropriate at all for a party that my company paid for.

[The_Dark]

Deal with it. The golf course isn't government owned.

[phee]

Okay, so some background first.  There’s a lady at work who embezzled about $20000 from a previous doctor’s office before she came to work at my company.  When she got hired into my company, she hadn’t yet been convicted on these charges so she technically answered truthfully when she said she had not been convicted of a felony.  So, anyway, she starts working here while the investigation and trial is going on.  In the meantime, she “finds God” at my boss’s church (i.e. she finds a group of people who will support her family while she’s in jail.)  So she gets convicted and sent to jail for a year and a half.  She gets out of jail and my boss takes her back as a medical biller (same job as me).  Don’t even get me started on how stupid this was…

Fast forward to last Friday at our office Christmas party.  It’s at a golf club a little ways out of Grand Rapids.  The ex-convict’s husband is DJ’ing the party and as he announces that we’re going to eat, he tells us that he’s going to say a prayer first.  Now, keep in mind, this is not even an attempt all-inclusive prayer.  It went something like this:  “Dear God, thank you so much for sending your only son to die on the cross for our sins and be raised again after three days in the tomb.  We know that you did not have to and we know that we are all sinners in your eyes.  We know that we need to accept you into our hearts in order to feel the power of your redemption.  Please remind us of that on this celebration of your birthday.”

I’m sorry, but I did not find this appropriate at all for a party that my company paid for.

Well you could have insisted on saying something after that if you felf that it was exclusionary prayer (and OMG yes it was). Perhaps it was tactless of the gentelman, but that is freedom of speech for ya!

[HipsterDufus]

Deal with it. The golf course isn't government owned.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Couldn't this affect the equal opportunity status of a company, though? I think a case could fairly easily be made that, by allowing that, the management of my particular office might discriminate against non-Christians when it comes to promotions...

[HipsterDufus]

Well you could have insisted on saying something after that if you felf that it was exclusionary prayer (and OMG yes it was). Perhaps it was tactless of the gentelman, but that is freedom of speech for ya!

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I understand what you're saying, but obviously management (both of whom are conservative catholics) didn't have a problem with what this guy said in his prayer. If I had spoken up against it, I would have been singled out as a non-Christian and I definitely wonder how that would have affected my status with management...

[The_Dark]

I dont see how it could affect equal opportunity. Your not christian, you still have your job.. hell, you got your job.

They have their Freedom of Religion. They expressed it. If you don't like that, go work somewhere else.

I don't mean to be a prick about this... but you have a Freedom OF religion, not Freedom FROM religion.

[The_Dark]

I almost forgot....

Fast forward to last Friday at our office Christmas party.

You didn't expect prayer at a Christmas party? Your surprised the someone acknoleges what Christmans is really about?

[Steven]

technically inappropriate.

but realistically without harm.

always amazes me what people choose to expend energy on getting offended over.

[phee]

I guess I would be bothered if I was told I was going to hell or something... but baring that

[HipsterDufus]

I dont see how it could affect equal opportunity. Your not christian, you still have your job.. hell, you got your job.

They have their Freedom of Religion. They expressed it. If you don't like that, go work somewhere else.

I don't mean to be a prick about this... but you have a Freedom OF religion, not Freedom FROM religion.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I also understand what you're saying. Let's put this in reverse though. Let's say your boss was different religion from you and was quite fundamentalist in his/her beliefs. Then something like this happened at your office. Would you feel comfortable standing up for your Christianity against your boss? Do you think it would negatively affect your job status? Maybe you are more brave than I am and you can honestly say that you would do it. I had to fight tooth and nail to get into this company and I'm not going to say anything that would jeopardize my position here though.

You didn't expect prayer at a Christmas party? Your surprised the someone acknoleges what Christmans is really about?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I was expecting someone to bring up this point. I also understand this. I think the thing that bothered me the most was just how excessive the prayer seemed. It seemed more like he was trying to convert people through this prayer than actually just thanking God for sending his son. I can't speak for him or his motives, but Sarah agreed that it seemed very conversion-based.

[The_Dark]

I also understand what you're saying.  Let's put this in reverse though.  Let's say your boss was different religion from you and was quite fundamentalist in his/her beliefs.  Then something like this happened at your office.  Would you feel comfortable standing up for your Christianity against your boss?  Do you think it would negatively affect your job status?  Maybe you are more brave than I am and you can honestly say that you would do it.  I had to fight tooth and nail to get into this company and I'm not going to say anything that would jeopardize my position here though.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I don't let other people's beliefs bother me or affect me. I also don't wear my religion on my sleeve. In real life, most people that know me are surprised when they find out that I am Christian. My Faith is mine and I don't have to scream it on top of the moutain to feel good about it. If someone else does, I let them. Beleive me.. I have spent many a night listening to someone drone on about "the Goddess" and thier Wiccan beleifs. Thats thier right and I let them express it.

[phee]

I don't let other people's beliefs bother me or affect me. I also don't wear my religion on my sleeve. In real life, most people that know me are surprised when they find out that I am Christian. My Faith is mine and I don't have to scream it on top of the moutain to feel good about it. If someone else does, I let them. Beleive me.. I have spent many a night listening to someone drone on about "the Goddess" and thier Wiccan beleifs. Thats thier right and I let them express it.

Cool mate

[HipsterDufus]

I don't let other people's beliefs bother me or affect me. I also don't wear my religion on my sleeve. In real life, most people that know me are surprised when they find out that I am Christian. My Faith is mine and I don't have to scream it on top of the moutain to feel good about it. If someone else does, I let them. Beleive me.. I have spent many a night listening to someone drone on about "the Goddess" and thier Wiccan beleifs. Thats thier right and I let them express it.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

That is cool of you. I just have issues with proselytizing in general. Every time I see my parents, they try to push their religion and politics on me. It begins to wear a bit thin. So, by the time something like this happens, my tolerance is already worn enough that I tend to get pissy about it.

[phee]

That is cool of you.  I just have issues with proselytizing in general.  Every time I see my parents, they try to push their religion and politics on me.  It begins to wear a bit thin.  So, by the time something like this happens, my tolerance is already worn enough that I tend to get pissy about it.

I can understand that

[DisturbedMania]

Hipster Dufus I'm gonna agree with you. Purely on the concept that any prayer should have been left out of the company party. I'd be contacting a lawyer in your position especially since the prayer was announced and could easily have been planned.

My reasoning- years of harassment to convert back to Christianity. Years of being discriminated against over beliefs- long story. I have no problem if you choose to believe in the flying spaghetti monster, but I don't need to know about it. Just shouldn't be brought up.

Oh and by the way- for those that say it's a "Christmas" Party. I know pagan shop owners that call their holiday parties Christmas parties and technically it's a pagan holiday. Christ was not the original reason for the season.

[phee]

Hipster Dufus I'm gonna agree with you.  Purely on the concept that any prayer should have been left out of the company party.  I'd be contacting a lawyer in your position especially since the prayer was announced and could easily have been planned. 

My reasoning- years of harassment to convert back to Christianity.  Years of being discriminated against over beliefs- long story.  I have no problem if you choose to believe in the flying spaghetti monster, but I don't need to know about it.  Just shouldn't be brought up.

Oh and by the way- for those that say it's a "Christmas" Party.  I know pagan shop owners that call their holiday parties Christmas parties and technically it's a pagan holiday.  Christ was not the original reason for the season.

That is true... the solstice was, they actually think his birthday was most likely in late spring... but the religion formed to try encompass pagan religions.

[The_Dark]

Hipster Dufus I'm gonna agree with you.  Purely on the concept that any prayer should have been left out of the company party.  I'd be contacting a lawyer in your position especially since the prayer was announced and could easily have been planned. 

My reasoning- years of harassment to convert back to Christianity.  Years of being discriminated against over beliefs- long story.  I have no problem if you choose to believe in the flying spaghetti monster, but I don't need to know about it.  Just shouldn't be brought up.

Oh and by the way- for those that say it's a "Christmas" Party.  I know pagan shop owners that call their holiday parties Christmas parties and technically it's a pagan holiday.  Christ was not the original reason for the season.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

What exactly would you sue for? No laws were broken and no rights trampled on. Beleive it or not... it's not against the law to be Christian or practice the Christian religion. If this party had been funded by the government in anyway, then there would be a problem... but it wasn't. again... DEAL.

[phee]

What exactly would you sue for? No laws were broken and no rights trampled on. Beleive it or not... it's not against the law to be Christian or practice the Christian religion. If this party had been funded by the government in anyway, then there would be a problem... but it wasn't. again... DEAL.

This is true...

Based on what is described, it would be hard to make a discrimination case, unless they do not allow you to practice your religion...

[Homicidalheathen]

I know it sucks, but we have to take shit like this at work. One of my old bosses actually asked us who we were going to vote for and tried to convince us Bush was a good guy ect.

My man has to hide his tatoo, lie about being pagan......

It is just not worth losing your job over and this country will never change.

Something I do when people pray is pray aloud in my head to the goddess......in my own way....about my own thing that is maybe related so I am participating quietly without totally selling out.

You know?

[HipsterDufus]

I know it sucks, but we have to take shit like this at work.  One of my old bosses actually asked us who we were going to vote for and tried to convince us Bush was a good guy ect.

My man has to hide his tatoo, lie about being pagan......

It is just not worth losing your job over and this country will never change.

Something I do when people pray is pray aloud in my head to the goddess......in my own way....about my own thing that is maybe related so I am participating quietly without totally selling out.

You know?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

My boss was going around promoting Bush on the day of the election. One girl here was wearing a Bush yard sign around the office (no shit). Not exactly a comfortable environment to let out my paganism/liberalism.

[Steven]

That is cool of you.  I just have issues with proselytizing in general.  Every time I see my parents, they try to push their religion and politics on me.  It begins to wear a bit thin.  So, by the time something like this happens, my tolerance is already worn enough that I tend to get pissy about it.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

my god man, get real.

every person alive on planet earth proselytizes.

if your secure in what you beleive is real, things like this should not shake you. You've got a long life ahead of you where you'll have to put up with these sorts fo things, and others will in turn have to put up with you.

The dark said it best: deal. your a long way from Nazi Germany or Red China.

[HipsterDufus]

my god man, get real.

every person alive on planet earth proselytizes. 

if your secure in what you beleive is real, things like this should not shake you.   You've got a long life ahead of you where you'll have to put up with these sorts fo things, and others will in turn have to put up with you. 

The dark said it best:  deal.  your a long way from Nazi Germany or Red China.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I'm not a complete idiot, Steven. I know that people will always be proselytizing. Your advice about "getting real" is much appreciated though. I'll make sure to do that in the future.

Warning: post contains sarcasm

[Blackmail]

There are alot of other things that factor in here, since it was a party and not "on the clock" and it was at a private place, then I see nothing "technicly" wrong with the prayer, especially if the boss is a church goer.

But if the prayer was done without consent or approval of the people throwing the party, then yeah I think it was overboard. The DJ shouldn't hi-jack the party with his own religious beliefs.

As the Dark and Steven said, I personally would not get all worked up over it though. If I worked for a company that emplyed mostly Muslims and I went to a work party and there was the Islamic call to prayer, I would be cool with it.

[HipsterDufus]

There are alot of other things that factor in here, since it was a party and not "on the clock" and it was at a private place, then I see nothing "technicly" wrong with the prayer, especially if the boss is a church goer. 

But if the prayer was done without consent or approval of the people throwing the party, then yeah I think it was overboard.  The DJ shouldn't hi-jack the party with his own religious beliefs. 

As the Dark and Steven said, I personally would not get all worked up over it though.  If I worked for a company that emplyed mostly Muslims and I went to a work party and there was the Islamic call to prayer, I would be cool with it.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I agree. I feel better about it now; I just had to vent a little. I'm not sure whether the bosses knew about it or not; nor will I ask them. I still am not a big fan of what happened, but I'll live.

[Homicidalheathen]

My man worked for this guy who used to lie, cheat.....steal.......and pray that god would grant him favors because he honestly thought he was so special.

My man got the experience he needed and left.

You know what? That guys buisness went under. He found out his own brother was ripping him off. He had to go to work for someone else and cannot just sit on his ass all day anymore.

Isn't charma grand???? :devil