"Heartstrings"

[Msterbeau]

The Dark brought up the notion of heartstrings in the Death Penalty Thread and it struck me that this might be a great topic of discussion.

When I think about the term heartstrings, I think of strong emotional situations, ones that rip feelings out of you whether you want them to be or not. TD mentioned the term as it related to the thought of the death of his daughter. Certainly an apt situation. I cry at the thought of serious harm coming to mine. What struck me (And forgive me for using you as an example Mark.) was that TD expressed that he didn't like having his heartstrings pulled in response to the above situation.

So... Why don't we like to be reminded of our emotions? Is it a bad thing that we allow them to play a part in the decisions we make in all aspects of our lives? Do too many people shut them off as a convenient way of doing what they think is "right"? Other related questions?

Have at folks....

[Blackmail]

Perhaps because we want objective answers, we don't use anecdotal evidence or put ourselves in that position.

The death penalty is one issue. I am opposed to the death penalty. However, if someone kills my brother I very well might go and hunt the person down and kill him/her myself.

How about free health care? It sounds good, I'm all for it, but what if it means my Dad is put on a long waiting list and dies (like what happens in Europe) when he could have gotten treatment right away (like he actually did here in the U.S.).

Emotions are contradcitory to objectivism sometimes.

[phee]

The Dark brought up the notion of heartstrings in the Death Penalty Thread and it struck me that this might be a great topic of discussion.

When I think about the term heartstrings, I think of strong emotional situations, ones that rip feelings out of you whether you want them to be or not.  TD mentioned the term as it related to the thought of the death of his daughter.  Certainly an apt situation.  I cry at the thought of serious harm coming to mine.  What struck me (And forgive me for using you as an example Mark.) was that TD expressed that he didn't like having his heartstrings pulled in response to the above situation. 

So...  Why don't we like to be reminded of our emotions?  Is it a bad thing that we allow them to play a part in the decisions we make in all aspects of our lives?  Do too many people shut them off as a convenient way of doing what they think is "right"?  Other related questions?

Have at folks....

Nice topics... To me when I feel a certain way... putting my personal life on the line is a good way for me to keep my argument and logic in check... For example If something happened to someone I loved (let's say from the Death Penalty thread) it would be easy to say "I want that person who killed my daughter to burn!!!" But on the otherside, let's say something unfortunate happened to another, and my daughter was put to death for it... I can honestly say, that my desire to see another killed for vengence, is LESS THAN my desire to see innocents killed...

That is my heartstrings being pulled, and it can give perspective...

[Guest Megalicious]

Is it a bad thing that we allow them to play a part in the decisions we make in all aspects of our lives? 

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I believe it can be. Life sometimes requires us to make choices where emotion has no busniess, and other times making a choice in thee "emotional mind" can be self destructive. Take in mind busniess choices ... Emotion HAS NO place in business. It's hard to take a step back and try to look at things objectivly, but I believe when people do they make the best choices.

Let us look at differnt emotions. Anger,fear,love,passion, ect ect. Emotions make us blind to what possibly is right in front of us. Im not saying we should all be emotionless robots (though I believe phee will like the robot idea :whistling =) ) but I believe a line should be drawn in making a choice with emotion because it can lead to some very horrible aftermath.

[phee]

I believe it can be. Life sometimes requires us to make choices where emotion has no busniess, and other times making a choice in thee "emotional mind" can be self destructive. Take in mind busniess choices ... Emotion HAS NO place in business. It's hard to take a step back and try to look at things objectivly, but I believe when people do they make the best choices.

Let us look at differnt emotions. Anger,fear,love,passion, ect ect. Emotions make us blind to what possibly is right in front of us. Im not saying we should all be emotionless robots (though I believe phee will like the robot idea  :whistling  =) ) but I believe a line should be drawn in making a choice with emotion because it can lead to some very horrible aftermath.

It depends on the business... the business of killing another human being... I believe it does

[Guest Megalicious]

It depends on the business... the business of killing another human being... I believe it does

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I'm not talking about the DP Phee, I happen to agree with you on that. They have let so many ppl go due to DNA testing its not even funny. Could you imagine if they would have been sentenced to death? =( But the topic of the tread was if I believe that emotions have a place in all of my choices.. and well I don't believe that they do.

[Blackmail]

Nice topics... To me when I feel a certain way... putting my personal life on the line is a good way for me to keep my argument and logic in check... For example If something happened to someone I loved (let's say from the Death Penalty thread) it would be easy to say "I want that person who killed my daughter to burn!!!" But on the otherside, let's say something unfortunate happened to another, and my daughter was put to death for it... I can honestly say, that my desire to see another killed for vengence, is LESS THAN my desire to see innocents killed...

That is my heartstrings being pulled, and it can give perspective...

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

So if someone kills your daughter (god forbid) you don't think you'll want the killer put to death? I think feelings on certain things are static, this is one of them.

Now yeah it would suck if an innocent person gets sentenced to death (it rarely happens and when it has happened, the evidence still seemed to suggest the person in question wasn't exactly guilty, at least in the 3 high profile cases I can think of).

But what if you knew the killer, you saw it happen, it was caught on camera, the DNA matched and the killer confessed. What would be your view then?

Wait, am I dragging this off topic?

[phee]

I'm not talking about the DP Phee, I happen to agree with you on that.  They have let so many ppl go due to DNA testing its not even funny. Could you imagine if they would have been sentenced to death?  =(  But the topic of the tread was if I believe that emotions have a place in all of my choices.. and well I don't believe that they do.

For the most part... I agree then yes....

[Blackmail]

Ok steering this back on topic:

Should judges be allowed to have their "heart strings" tugged?

Or should a Judge be more like a robot? Because to me, Judiciousness and emotions should never mix.

[Guest Megalicious]

Ok steering this back on topic:

Should judges be allowed to have their "heart strings" tugged?

Or should a Judge be more like a robot?  Because to me, Judiciousness and emotions should never mix.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Well you can't help it sometimes, I mean we are human. But when it come to the court system. No. I don't think THEY should mix. Hence why there are not going to give a murder case of a young girl to a Judge that has had his daugther murdered.

[Shade Everdark]

I think trying to separate one's emotions from one's reason is a futile, and ultimately dangerous, exercize. You can't rid yourself of emotions anymore than you could rid yourself of endocrine function.

I think the important distinction to be made (and perhaps it's just semantics, but it seems like it's a more subtle and delicate thing, to me) is recognizing how much of your judgment is coming from your emotions, and try to account for that.

And really, sometimes emotions do help us make decisions. Empathy, even just sympathy, can be a powerful tool.

[BrassFusion]

I agree that judges should try to prevent their emotions from ever coming into play, but as for emotion and capital punishment of someone who brutally murdered a child of yours... I think it would be interesting if a parent demands the death of the murderer and the conviction went through, the parent should be actually involved in the execution. Say, pulling the handle on an electric chair. I bet a lot of people wouldn't be able to do that.

[phee]

Well you can't help it sometimes, I mean we are human. But when it come to the court system. No. I don't think THEY should mix. Hence why there are not going to give a murder case of a young girl  to a Judge that has had his daugther murdered.

A judge as individual... should be robotic yes.... a Jury though... well they are not supposed to be Robot like at all...

A Judge should interpret the law the best they can.... I am thinking that some laws themselves need to be changed...

But Judges by nature... are being judgemental... I know of one in paticular who I really wish that they had not made up their mind already, and i wish would spend more time looking at evidence and listening to both sides... but this is not going to happen.

[Guest Megalicious]

And really, sometimes emotions do help us make decisions.  Empathy, even just sympathy, can be a powerful tool.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

This is true Shade, but sometimes it can help us make decisions that are just as damaging.

But your right, recognizing how much of your judgment is coming from your emotions is very important. Because it's not the emotion it's self that is causing the damage, it's the way that one lets it influence them and to what degree.

[The_Dark]

Very good topic.. and no, no problem with using me for an example.

As for heart strings. Things like the Death Penalty are very emotional things. Emotions tend to cloud things though. We can't make objective choices when our emotions are making us thier bitch.

In the above case.. where someone hurt my daughter. I'd kill the fuckers myself if they let me... but what if it was a case of self defense? My emotions would still want them dead... my brain on the other hand would understand and not push for the Death Penalty. (I just cant bring myself to call it DP)

[Guest Megalicious]

Emotions tend to cloud things though. We can't make objective choices when our emotions are making us thier bitch.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Exactly

[phee]

Very good topic.. and no, no problem with using me for an example.

As for heart strings. Things like the Death Penalty are very emotional things. Emotions tend to cloud things though. We can't make objective choices when our emotions are making us thier bitch.

In the above case.. where someone hurt my daughter. I'd kill the fuckers myself if they let me... but what if it was a case of self defense? My emotions would still want them dead... my brain on the other hand would understand and not push for the Death Penalty. (I just cant bring myself to call it DP)

I agree it's good that we can actually talk about this...

[torn asunder]

in any argument/discussion, i think emotions and logic can and should be considered seperately first. personally, i will address one until i feel i have a clear understanding of it (let's say, logic side first) once i know where i stand on that, i will explore my feelings and emotions, as they relate to the topic i'm considering. once i think i've got a good grip on each, i'll try to make the best balanced decision i can - one that comes close to the logical decision i made, while remaining true to my emotions and feelings as much as i'm able. sometimes we can't have it both ways, and that's when we must compromise. i don't think life is fully/well lived when one is a slave to either logic, or emotions alone - they must be combined, imho...

[The_Dark]

Nicely put....

[creatureofthenyte]

in any argument/discussion, i think emotions and logic can and should be considered seperately first. personally, i will address one until i feel i have a clear understanding of it (let's say, logic side first) once i know where i stand on that, i will explore my feelings and emotions, as they relate to the topic i'm considering. once i think i've got a good grip on each, i'll try to make the best balanced decision i can - one that comes close to the logical decision i made, while remaining true to my emotions and feelings as much as i'm able. sometimes we can't have it both ways, and that's when we must compromise. i don't think life is fully/well lived when one is a slave to either logic, or emotions alone - they must be combined, imho...

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I agree with this too

[Hellion]

in any argument/discussion, i think emotions and logic can and should be considered seperately first. personally, i will address one until i feel i have a clear understanding of it (let's say, logic side first) once i know where i stand on that, i will explore my feelings and emotions, as they relate to the topic i'm considering. once i think i've got a good grip on each, i'll try to make the best balanced decision i can - one that comes close to the logical decision i made, while remaining true to my emotions and feelings as much as i'm able. sometimes we can't have it both ways, and that's when we must compromise. i don't think life is fully/well lived when one is a slave to either logic, or emotions alone - they must be combined, imho...

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

:devil Well said Torn.

[Steven]

I think trying to separate one's emotions from one's reason is a futile, and ultimately dangerous, exercize.  You can't rid yourself of emotions anymore than you could rid yourself of endocrine function.

I think the important distinction to be made (and perhaps it's just semantics, but it seems like it's a more subtle and delicate thing, to me) is recognizing how much of your judgment is coming from your emotions, and try to account for that.

And really, sometimes emotions do help us make decisions.  Empathy, even just sympathy, can be a powerful tool.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I liked this post very much, very truthful, and succint. It is what it is, we are emotional creatures, especially those who work overtime to control theirs.

I wear mine on my sleave.

Still, I try to couple that emotion with some degree of wisdom (notice I did not say intillect) because I beleive the two can work togethor very well once we learn to do so.

Also, people are important to me, connection - is important to me. I can't do that without some element of emotional risk. nor can i have the intimacy with friends that I desire without some form of risk on their part as well.

I know many others who take a completely opposite type of approach, a much more cautious one, and there is nothing wrong wtih that. But it just does not work that way for me. I dont know if I'm going to die tommorow. I'd rather say what i have to say and feel what i have to feel.......today. And the thing is, I dont want anyone I love or admire to ever have to wonder how I felt about them. The same goes for subject matter. Rarely does anyone really ever have to "guess" my point of view, they allready know it, because they know me with true depth.

[Fierce Critter]

I am an extremely emotional person, and much of my view of day-to-day things is directed as such.

And I don't apologize for it.

I am quite capable of looking at things logically. I just think the world would be a damned cold, boring place if we all stuck with logic as the be-all-end-all of how/why we do - or don't do - things.

I think a balance is a good idea. But I think a lot of people shut their emotions off too much, and become robotic. This can give them a sort of advantage over me, in that their way of viewing me then becomes almost piteous, which in turns infuriates me.

I guess I could shut down my emotions and be more like them. But for some reason, that idea makes me want to vomit.

Anyway, when it comes to "heartstrings", I agree it's different for different people. I cry when I see dead animals on the side of the road. Most people pass by without a 2nd thought. Then again most people are affected when they see human tragedy like the Oklahoma City bombing. My reaction was probably disturbingly indifferent. In part, I think that's because to feel something about such a thing, a certain amount of shock has to come into play. I myself am neither surprised nor shocked by the evils of men, so I kinda expect it.

It's obviously also very relative to the distance or closeness you have to a given thing/person, and I'm not the author of this, but I'll repeat it. Basically, your reaction & emotions are going to be different if something happens to: a stranger in a land you've never heard of; a stranger in a land you know of; a person you have heard of but don't know personally; a person you know personally but aren't close to; a person you know; a person you like; a person you love.

[DJ Nocker]

I am a callous person and rarely show emotions other than comedic or angry ones. I hate showing sadness as I think it a sign of weekness. Yes i know thats a bad thing to say and I will be flamed for it, but its my believe.

[Soulrev]

Being able to hide emotions and being able to turn them off are two different things. I can turn them off. Done it several times in my life.