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i'm thinking that this isn't really the case - it's not love and passion, but the unreasonable *expectation* that the "desire" will never change, that brings about heartache. expectation of a particular outcome/result is the ultimate cause of our suffering, imo. when one goes into something with no firm expectations, one is rarely disappointed. accepting that things are ever-changing, and learning to come to terms with that will always make life easier to live. taking things as they come, being thankful for the things in one's life while they're here, and accepting when it's time for things to change is the key, to me. life is impermanence...

Ok, first of all, Tits, if you were here, I'd totally kick your ass (metaphorically) and it would have nothing to do with politics Secondly, there IS nothing wrong, per se, with having traditional values, believing in a limited government, and believing in G-d. Just as there's nothing wrong with having progressive values, believing in a comprehensive government that looks out for its most vulnerable citizens, and not believing in a higher power. (Except in the case of Hebrew National hot dogs. Those ARE created by divine intervention and there is no further discussion on the matter) They are just different worldviews and philosophies. (In case you were wondering, mine is right one ) In fact, your question is a tad flawed to begin with. The large majority on here is NOT liberal. Or conservative. There IS NO majority viewpoint There are nothing but minority viewpoints on here even when broken down to overly simplistic groupings. The highest % of political viewpoints (though far less than 50%) seem to be of a -----pure Libertarian nature (Small govt, maximum indiv freedom, liberalized social mores aka civil libertarianism) After that, ---I'd say liberal/leftist. Third most, we have the centrists. They come on and post, and you never know which side they're going to fall on. Oftentimes their views play out like the crowd in Julius Caesar, changing whenever a persuasive argument comes along "Hail eternal!" (3 posts later) "Hail Gaf!" Those people frustrate me the most. But this being a goth board, I need to acknowledge the ACTUAL majority viewpoint. Most people on here are so nihilistic THAT the vast majority of people look at this whole Political forum and think "We should just blow this ENTIRE section off the board, Then so we could watch all the dumb right and left wing whiners complain about how no ones paying attention to their viewpoint---Angry idiots." "Oh fuck it, I'm outta here. I need to go on Facebook and whine about something far more important than this shit---ME" BUT I DIGRESS--- The reason why you see unfortunate manners and viewpoints from liberals from time to time has NOTHING to do with the message, but the message bearers of the conservative mantra. Let's look at the heavy-hitters Glenn Beck, the most recognizable standard bearer of the conservative movement today, taking the torch as of late from Rush Limbaugh Beck is a very shrewd intelligent man. Very few could do what he does. And what does he do? He gets paid multi-multi millions to play on people's emotions, as opposed to their rationality, and whip them all up in a frenzy about doomsday coming tomorrow. He uses hyperbole and Nazi comparisons-galore that have little or no basis in reality. He fear-mongers daily as if every action a Democrat takes will be our last. In Beck's world, it will only be a matter of minutes, no seconds before Obama and Pelosi enslave us forever in a Communist nightmare that we will never awake from. I'm sorry but that's a crock of shit. AT THE SAME TIME, it would ALSO have been a crock of shit to have said the same of George W Bush when he was president. I have to admit, when Obama stood up a month or so back and finally said, Fuck y'all, we're ramming this health care bill down your throats, George W Bush-style, I finally appreciated the bull-headedness of our previous President. W wasn't trying to destroy America. He was simply doing what he thought was best for her. And when he didn't get cooperation, to quote Palin, he "went rogue" And guess what, after eight years of what I thought was the worst policy decisions I'll see in my lifetime, we're still here! ALL of us! No matter what bone-headed anarchist or liberal said the end is near, We all still live and breathe! Almost none of the liberals moved to Canada, MI is the same economic shit-hole it was when Bush took office, and we all have relatively the same standing as we did before. So Tits, the same thing you got a little frustrated with Slogo for pointing out at the beginning of this thread, is in actuality the thing that causes the most ire among people of different views. It's not the philosophy, which any good contrarian would RESPECTFULLY disagree with. It's when you put on the radio or TV---your Glenn Becks or your Rush Limbaughs, who let's face it are entertainers--not pundits--(They got their career starts as shock jocks after all) it's hard NOT to get all defensive and condescending. BUT THAT HAS NOTHING TO DO WITH PHILOSOPHY. AS FOR OUR LEADERS IN CONGRESS----- Politics has gotten so, well, political, so they're no longer arguing beliefs and philosophies, they're just justifying the stupid shit their guys are doing all the while trying to claim that the stupid shit the other guys are doing is going to bring about a worldwide meltdown any second. When in the end, all they're doing is arguing about stupid shit. And the good stuff that may be emerging, from a senator here or a representative there, is universally ignored, because g-d forbid we acknowledge a good idea, especially if it comes from a guy that doesn't belong to the same party as our own.