Adam and Eve

[Der Nister]

imo if youve read the bible many many times and youve searched and asked and delve into everything and your still not getting the answers you want maybe you shouldnt be looking at christianity. just a thought. . . =)

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

It's not that I have a problem with chritianity it's that I have a problem with religeon period.

If anyone may have noticed that every religeon says that it is the true religeon. Their God is the true God. From muslims to christians. If every religeons' God is the true god then my guess would be that we have a heck of a lot of gods to worship.

Or maybe, there is indeed ONE TRUE GOD and in order to reach everyone he/she/it put themself in every religeon in an effort to save us. Or, all religeons have no idea what is going on. It's all very comlex when you start thinking about it from as many angles as possible.

And imo truth isn't always easy to figure out and is always stranger than fiction.

Just a few more of my thoughts on the subject.

[Gauge]

It's not that I have a problem with chritianity it's that I have a problem with religeon period.

If anyone may have noticed that every religeon says that it is the true religeon. Their God is the true God. From muslims to christians. If every religeons' God is the true god then my guess would be that we have a heck of a lot of gods to worship.

Or maybe, there is indeed ONE TRUE GOD and in order to reach everyone he/she/it put themself in every religeon in an effort to save us.  Or, all religeons have no idea what is going on. It's all very comlex when you start thinking about it from as many angles as possible.

And imo truth isn't always easy to figure out and is always stranger than fiction.

Just a few more of my thoughts on the subject.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

so be your own god =)

[BrassFusion]

It's not that I have a problem with chritianity it's that I have a problem with religeon period.

If anyone may have noticed that every religeon says that it is the true religeon. Their God is the true God. From muslims to christians. If every religeons' God is the true god then my guess would be that we have a heck of a lot of gods to worship.

Or maybe, there is indeed ONE TRUE GOD and in order to reach everyone he/she/it put themself in every religeon in an effort to save us.  Or, all religeons have no idea what is going on. It's all very comlex when you start thinking about it from as many angles as possible.

And imo truth isn't always easy to figure out and is always stranger than fiction.

Just a few more of my thoughts on the subject.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I'm Agnostic. It's the one true religion. :innocent

[torn asunder]

another interesting thought on this - no matter what you beleive, according to someone else's religion, we are all going to hell.

[Gauge]

ahh agnostics, the one true cop-out

[torn asunder]

ahh agnostics, the one true cop-out

uh, oh... :laughing

[Der Nister]

so be your own god  =)

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Haha.

I'm Agnostic. It's the one true religion.  :innocent

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Ummmm..... :erm

another interesting thought on this - no matter what you beleive, according to someone else's religion, we are all going to hell.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

That is another issue I have with religion. Also, some don't even believe in hell. The jewish faith states that there in no hell what so ever.

So who is right and who is wrong? None of these religions can agree on much of or anything at all.

[torn asunder]

So who is right and who is wrong? None of these religions can agree on much of or anything at all.

that's why i firmly beleive that i am god... at least in my own life, as are you in yours, etc...

no, seriously... :innocent

[BrassFusion]

ahh agnostics, the one true cop-out

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I don't see how refusing to believe in anything for lack of evidence is a cop-out. I believe in cheese. And video games. And puppies. Why should I "believe" in a god that I really don't think exists, and whose nature I couldn't even begin to comprehend if I did?

[Gauge]

I don't see how refusing to believe in anything for lack of evidence is a cop-out. I believe in cheese. And video games. And puppies. Why should I "believe" in a god that I really don't think exists, and whose nature I couldn't even begin to comprehend if I did?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

im not saying you have to believe in a god you dont think exsists, or comprehend who or what that "god" is. im just saying that calling yourself agnostic makes you sound so. . .noncommital. why not try to look at the evidence you have. =)

[torn asunder]

to quote monty python...

M: Well I've always said, There's nothing an agnostic can't do if

  he really doesn't know whether he believes in anything or not.

just playin'...

[BrassFusion]

im not saying you have to believe in a god you dont think exsists, or comprehend who or what that "god" is. im just saying that calling yourself agnostic makes you sound so. . .noncommital. why not try to look at the evidence you have. =)

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I have.

I don't have enough evidence to commit. By the very nature of my skepticism, I never will.

Edit: And what good would it do me if I did?

Edit AGAIN: The evidence I find most convincing isn't very appealing to me. What I'm closest to believing is that there is no God or anything supernatural and that when we die we return to dust. I can live with it, but clearly, I'm not married to it. I'd much rather evangelize Agnosticism than Atheism because Agnosticism is the synthesis of ALL belief- that secularism is the true path to happiness.

[Gauge]

I have.

I don't have enough evidence to commit. By the very nature of my skepticism, I never will.

Edit: And what good would it do me if I did?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

to each his own i suppose

edit: im not saying it would do any good, its all in how you would take what you had found. but if your going to go that rout why bother labeling yourself at all.

[Steven]

personally, i haven't found any x-tians that really lead fulfilling lives - i find too much conflict, contradiction, and hipocrasy. the people i find who are most at peace and happy within themselves have accepted that they are responsible for their lives, not some all-seeing, all-knowing, fatherly entity who is in control of them. of course, that's most likely because my definition of a "fulfilling" life is different than theirs, so i guess that point is really moot. i have great difficulty understanding how one can give away their responsibility to something/someone they can neither explain nor understand. something good happens, they thank god for blessing them? something bad happens, "well, that's god's will"... what? it just seems to make you a puppet in "god's puppet show" waiting to see what kind of "life" he's going to "design" for you. i'm not trying to be disrespectful - i just honestly don't understand it...

(i hope i haven't gone off on a tangent too much - if so, i apologize...)  :fear

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well this will sound nice and cocky, but you havent described me at all Dude.

You HAVE described many "beleivers" however. Trust me (or not) the real deal is out there.....just harder to find. ALso you make a good point about differing definitions of fullfillment. ALl I can offer is that I was not always a Christian and for many many years wa actually anti-christian, anti-god, anti anything. What I saw in certain people as an original draw, was charactor in both lean and abundant times, I saw how their wives and or children reacted to them, how they communicated, who was willing to surround them, how they dealt with problems, their ability to lead, to let go, to deal, etc. These thigns are not "christian" ideals in and of themselves. But solid conistency in most of these areas was for me - a thing rarely seen. When I did see it - it attracted me. Sort of like studying a business man who's model is working - youwant to consider that path of success.

oh by the way. and I AM responsible for my life.

however I do see the guidance of God within it.

some good things happen to me because I'm ethical and I busted my ass for it.

some bad things happen to me because I'm prideful and lean toward occasional bouts of idiocy.

As for understanding....well.....some of you allready understand certain thigns about my being, and the way my mind works, and what I value and how I might approach something. I'm pretty consistent. But you dont "know" me in the depth that others do.

I do beleive that I "know" God in an intimate sense, but more important - I beleive that I understand certain consistencies about him. But yes its hard to explain.

[Steven]

heh, well, you and steven seem to be exceptions, but i'm not counting you two, since i have yet to personally meet you. you both come across very well in online communications, but for me, i need to be around someone physically, on a semi-regular basis, before deciding (in my mind) the cotegory in which to place you...

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Ah HA!!!!!!! crackin up.....

I'm sure one of these day's we'll tip some beers Bud. then you can categorically shelve me as it seems appropriate......(I'm used to it, doesent really bug me)

I warn you however.....I'm not your average run of the mill Jesus Freak....

[Steven]

ahh agnostics, the one true cop-out

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Hey now....not cool...no cheap shots please, I consider these agnostics to be friends.....

[Gauge]

Hey now....not cool...no cheap shots please, I consider these agnostics to be friends.....

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sorry, wasnt meant to be a cheap shot, just my personal opinion, and just because my views are that way does not mean that i cannot have friends who believe differently.

[BrassFusion]

to each his own i suppose

edit: im not saying it would do any good, its all in how you would take what you had found. but if your going to go that rout why bother labeling yourself at all.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I didn't take any offense at the "cop-out" comment, I can see why a lot of people would see it that way.

The reason I'm an evangelical agnostic is because secularism would be VERY good for society right now. I don't like being judged by people because I don't believe in their god, and it happens.

I was talking to my ex-boyfriend the other day about something like this- he's a black Christian democrat, and we were talking politics- the 2008 pres. election, to be specific.

Some possible popular candidates could be Hillary Clinton (ew!) or Colin Powell (more on the right track). He thought Hillary was more "electable," and I thought the opposite.

He thought we'd see a woman president before we saw a black president.

I said I thought we'd see both LONG before we saw a president who didn't identify him- or herself as a Christian. Am I way off base in thinking that?

[The_Dark]

WE have had Non-Christian presidents.

[BrassFusion]

Well yeah, but a lot of people don't believe they were.

How about... We'll see a black president and a woman president well before we'll see ANOTHER non-Christian president?

[Draco1958]

I just hope we get a good President, no matter color, sex or political belief.

Steven, I have you catagorized already...hehehe

I see you as a caring warm hearted person who has lived a personal hell, fought back and found a faith of heart that guides you. You have shown compassion, wisdom and acceptance in your postings. I hope to meet you one day in person so I can say thank you for being you. I have found solace, wisdom and at times even hope in your words. You are one of many people on this site that makes it worth being here. Thank you for being you. Hope I didn't blow your cover....

[Der Nister]

that's why i firmly beleive that i am god... at least in my own life, as are you in yours, etc...

no, seriously...  :innocent

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

[Steven]

I just hope we get a good President, no matter color, sex or political belief.

Steven, I have you catagorized already...hehehe

I see you as a caring warm hearted person who has lived a personal hell, fought back and found a faith of heart that guides you.  You have shown compassion, wisdom and acceptance in your postings.  I hope to meet you one day in person so I can say thank you for being you.  I have found solace, wisdom and at times even hope in your words.  You are one of many people on this site that makes it worth being here.  Thank you for being you.  Hope I didn't blow your cover....

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

thank you my Brutha..... much appreciated.