The Difference Between...

[Shade Everdark]

I was reading another thread in this forum, and the idea occurred to me (it tends to, about twice a month), that there seems to be a lot of misinformation regarding agnosticism and atheism.

What do they really mean? Is there any difference, in the way you view things, between the two?

Take a look, and compare your definitions of agnosticism and atheism against what's listed here:

Wikipedia - Agnosticism

Wikipedia - Atheism

Infidels.org - Introduction to Atheism

[BrassFusion]

Some people lump atheism and agnosticism in the same group, and some maintain that they're both different religions. I like to assert that every person is part atheist and part agnostic- that they're two independent measurements of faith.

The complement of "atheism" for my purpose is "supernaturalism," and the complement to "agnosticism" is "devotion."

The extreme secularist would be 100% atheist and 100% agnostic- doesn't pretend to know anything, and doesn't care. The extreme "psycho," as per the graph, would believe that the universe is controlled by the whims of spirits that are beyond their grasp of understanding. The most extreme psycho might have no belief in physical law or logic whatsoever.

The idiot, on the other hand, would be anyone of any religion who displays fanatical devotion to his or her spiritual belief- or lack thereof.

Taking myself as an example, I arbitrated myself at around 15% spiritual and 10% devoted. That means I have a small amount of belief in supernatural beings that have their hands on the wheel, but I have little realistic devotion to anything I "believe" in.

Again, this whole graph is arbitrary and whether you're a psycho or an idiot is up to you. I make no claims regarding anyone I didn't already plot on the graph- this is merely to illustrate a logical way of interpreting atheism and agnosticism vs. faith.

[phee]

Great graphic!

[BrassFusion]

Thank you. I'll say again that the graph is in the spirit of satire and is not meant to be offensive to anyone except G.W. Bush, Osama Bin Laden, and Ayn Rand.

[Scary Guy]

Hey I had a hand in helping to at least form the idea to make the graph, gimme some credit too!

Also everyone is agnostic because no one knows anything for certain.

[Guest Megalicious]

:laughing The objectivist is right on the borderline of "dumbass" Territory. :laughing

[phee]

Hey I had a hand in helping to at least form the idea to make the graph, gimme some credit too!

Also everyone is agnostic because no one knows anything for certain.

Thanks for saying what I am not allowed to.... doe! now everyone knows

[BrassFusion]

Hey I had a hand in helping to at least form the idea to make the graph, gimme some credit too!

Also everyone is agnostic because no one knows anything for certain.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

YOU GET NOTHING!!!

And I still disagree that everyone is agnostic... though notice, the graph has no practical positive limit for either adamance or spirituality. So even the most hardcore believer could be more "agnostic" than someone else...

:laughing  The objectivist is right on the borderline of "dumbass" Territory.  :laughing

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Yeah. I was looking into the whole "objectivist" thing for a while and I found it very attractive until I read that "An objectivist MUST, by virtue of their beliefs, be atheist."

So yeah, she's way too adamant about that.

[Guest Megalicious]

Yah. I believe that you can have 'self interest" with out being a babbling .. Well you get the point =)

[Scary Guy]

You wouldn't have even thought up the graph if I hadn't mentioned the bell curve.

whatev.

[Homicidalheathen]

But some say they DO know for certain.

And I noticed the psycho side is near the spiritual side.....

Hey I had a hand in helping to at least form the idea to make the graph, gimme some credit too!

Also everyone is agnostic because no one knows anything for certain.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

[BrassFusion]

You wouldn't have even thought up the graph if I hadn't mentioned the bell curve.

whatev.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

It's nothing like a bell curve, you damn dirty Atheist.

But some say they DO know for certain.

And I noticed the psycho side is near the spiritual side.....

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

The extremity of spirituality, as far as I can ascertain, is a person who discards *all* scientific evidence of our physical world and replaces it with dogma. Since this graph is multi-religious, I'm willing to say that the vast majority of Christians, Jews, Muslims, Buddhists, Hindu, etc. do NOT edge over into the arbitrary "psycho" territory. Honestly, I probably pegged Bush too far to the spiritual end of the graph.

Let's take Scientologists, for example... they discard scientific data in preference of the babblings of a Sci Fi author who was only out to make a million dollars. I'm sure that many of them are "psycho." Tom Cruise is a "psycho."

I've also been thinking hard about the graph, and it seems rare that a "psycho" would not also be an "idiot," in that someone with extreme fanatic disregard of logic would usually be devoted to that one set of truths. Does anyone know someone with extreme spiritual theories that they believe are definitely the correct explanation, but they still retain a grain of agnosticism?

And thanks for pointing that out, HH. In v 1.1 of the drawing, I'll try to make it so it doesn't look like there's an automatic correlation with spirituality and psychosis.

[Steven]

but see, you dont know for certain, what I know for certain....certainly.

you just think you know.

and i'm cool with that, cause I know what I know.

and I'm not an idiot, although I'm not really offended by that because Lord knows I've been called far worse.

I do however - live out my life daily on a certain course, with a certain degree of intuition and vision, which has certainly manifested and changed who I am and even perhaps those around me.

But I can't prove it.

And I don't want to. Because I've nothing to prove to men, and everything to prove to myself.

And so I am my own experiment. I own my own results. And failures.

Some people label that as extreme.

In some ways, that can even be a compliment.

My older brother, who is much more like minded with you all than with myself, once tried to size me up negatively by saying:

"Steve, one thing for sure is, nobody ever has to guess where you stand on thigns...."

He meant to paint me in a corner, saying that I was in effect, small minded and inflexible. But then I watched a puzzled look come over his face after saying that. And there was an unsaid realization between us that I do not waiver, because I do not fear, and I do not fear, because I do not doubt,a nd I do not doubt, because I quite simply beleive completely, what I beleive and I live it day to day.

[Marblez]

"I do not waiver, because I do not fear, and I do not fear, because I do not doubt,a nd I do not doubt, because I quite simply beleive completely, what I beleive and I live it day to day. "

I like that.

[Steven]

"I do not waiver, because I do not fear, and I do not fear, because I do not doubt,a nd I do not doubt, because I quite simply beleive completely, what I beleive and I live it day to day. "

I like that.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

thanks Marblez.

[Daevion]

Holy shit I'm an atheist....learn something new everyday

[Scary Guy]

Holy shit I'm an atheist....learn something new everyday

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Welcome to the club