A parents' nightmare...

[Rayne]

Maybe I'm just more clear-headed in crisis situations ...

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I can guarantee you would not be in said situation.

[Msterbeau]

Thanks to the system that you guys are so nervous about, right? It's not perfect but we still have to use it, and training pimplyass seventeen year old kids to "use their best judgement" would not substantially improve the system.

I think you're wrong. I think you're not giving much credit to the people doing the job. Sure.. SOME of them may not be the brightest on earth... but for some, that's where they're at in life, but they have as good of judgement on this as you or I. If training people cut the statistics down from 7 out of 10 to 5 out of 10... that would be progress and worthwhile in my opinion.

[BrassFusion]

I never said we should tell them that... and I certainly didn't suggest it.  If those people are going to be put in a position to make that kind of judgement call... they should have some kind of training.  Context should also play into this...  Let's see...  fun camping trip... kids having fun...  Oohhh  nudity!!!  Bad!!!  Police!!! 

I'm not saying we shouldn't call the police or scrutinize pictures of naked children if there's reasonable cause.  But when the vast majority of people investigated our found innocent...  There's some work to be done.  After all this affects the children too.  When parents are stressed... it affects the kids.  Trust me.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Why are the police the bad guys here? THEY'RE the ones who should be trained to handle minor investigations. HELLO!!! THEY'RE THE POLICE! THAT'S WHAT THEY DO!

Maybe I'm a little biased here because my mom's worked in the SHPD for about 20 years and I've known some really great cops. There are shitty cops, too, but if they work together within a well organized system for rooting out parents who exploit their children, it should work okay. Hell, the system DOES work.

Anyone hear the phrase, Evil hates the light? If the parents aren't abusing their kids they have nothing to fear. How many stories have y'all heard where it pans out that an innocent parent permanently loses their children because they were SUSPECTED of abuse, but not guilty of it?

[Rayne]

If the parents aren't abusing their kids they have nothing to fear.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Um ... no.

[phee]

If the parents aren't abusing their kids they have nothing to fear.

That has got to be one of the more Niave statements I have heard in my adult life...

[Msterbeau]

Maybe I'm just more clear-headed in crisis situations... But there was no reason for him not to be more straightforward with the older kids about what was going on, instead of having arguments and freaking out and keeping them in the dark. Oh, and I loved that part toward the end when he deliberately scares the kids, "OMG, they could tear the family apart..." He just came across as a genuinely clueless, subjective guy who could've gained a lot from research and stopping to take a deep breath.

No matter how many more checks they put on the current system there will always be innocent people investigated and if they let their fears get out of hand they will FEEL a lot more stress than is necessary.

People handle things differently Erin. Some people are far more emotional and sensitive then others and that will color their experience of things. To play living room quarterback with this guys life and say he should do this and that denies that he's a different person with obviously different way of experiencing things.

There WILL always be innocents wrongly accused. But if you can make improvements, why shouldn't we?

[Msterbeau]

Why are the police the bad guys here? THEY'RE the ones who should be trained to handle minor investigations. HELLO!!! THEY'RE THE POLICE! THAT'S WHAT THEY DO!

Maybe I'm a little biased here because my mom's worked in the SHPD for about 20 years and I've known some really great cops. There are shitty cops, too, but if they work together within a well organized system for rooting out parents who exploit their children, it should work okay. Hell, the system DOES work.

Anyone hear the phrase, Evil hates the light? If the parents aren't abusing their kids they have nothing to fear. How many stories have y'all heard where it pans out that an innocent parent permanently loses their children because they were SUSPECTED of abuse, but not guilty of it?

The police, like many agencies are often overworked and lacking rsources. I'm pretty sure they'd appreciate having some of this stuff dealt with without their involvment.

I'm not going to argue with you anymore. We disagree.

Have children. Then come talk to me.

[phee]

The police, like many agencies are often overworked and lacking rsources.  I'm pretty sure they'd appreciate having some of this stuff dealt with without their involvment.

I'm not going to argue with you anymore.  We disagree.

Have children.  Then come talk to me.

That's kinda where I am at....

To state that "If the parents aren't abusing their kids they have nothing to fear." is kind of well... like I said niave...

I am surprised that anyone thinks the world actually functions that way... let alone to thinkd the legal system is that flawless...

If you ever are falselyt accused of something someday involving your children... (and OMG I have seen a lot of this) your attitude will change... I am almost certain...

[BrassFusion]

Guys, I DID ask any of you to furnish an anecdote where someone who was definitely NOT abusing their children had their children taken away from them.

I'm not officially naive and the system isn't officially fritzed until you can prove it.

And Marc, I never said improvements shouldn't be made, but it sounds like everyone else on this thread thinks those improvements should be at the expense and authority of... retail photo developers. What?

That has NOTHING to do with the actual system. Fix the police first.

[Rayne]

Guys, I DID ask any of you to furnish an anecdote where someone who was definitely NOT abusing their children had their children taken away from them.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

*points to self*

[phee]

Guys, I DID ask any of you to furnish an anecdote where someone who was definitely NOT abusing their children had their children taken away from them.

I'm not officially naive and the system isn't officially fritzed until you can prove it.

And Marc, I never said improvements shouldn't be made, but it sounds like everyone else on this thread thinks those improvements should be at the expense and authority of... retail photo developers. What?

That has NOTHING to do with the actual system. Fix the police first.

This is not my place to explain... but if you really want an example talk to my fiance please... I don't want to disclose her personal experiences to you about this... it is up to her

[BrassFusion]

*points to self*

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

And I know as much as I did before. Honestly, I DON'T want details of your personal life, but simply claiming yourself as a victim couldn't possibly change my mind. I don't know what happened, and frankly, if the children are in the midst of a custody battle as I assume is possible in your situation, that's a whole nother ball of wax.

[Rayne]

And I know as much as I did before. Honestly, I DON'T want details of your personal life, but simply claiming yourself as a victim couldn't possibly change my mind. I don't know what happened, and frankly, if the children are in the midst of a custody battle as I assume is possible in your situation, that's a whole nother ball of wax.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I will PM you if you'd like.

*edit - spelling issues

[BrassFusion]

I will PM you'd if you like.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

If you want to, but i don't want to ask you to share anything you're uncomfortable with, and you know i won't necessarily agree that you've been victimized. If you feel it's worth proving a point, sure.

[torn asunder]

you can't prove anything to someone who's already made up their mind...

[phee]

you can't prove anything to someone who's already made up their mind...

So it seems... that sums it up.... try arguing with one of my ex's....

[Msterbeau]

And Marc, I never said improvements shouldn't be made, but it sounds like everyone else on this thread thinks those improvements should be at the expense and authority of... retail photo developers. What?

That has NOTHING to do with the actual system. Fix the police first.

*Ahem* Did I not suggest that as well....??

  I think also that there needs to be far more effort to train police and agency people to deal with others as humans, not criminals... not until they're proven so.  That sucks.  Also...  Why the fuck should it take so many months to investigate this kinda thing?  Because there are so many false reports???  Maybe.....

[BrassFusion]

Come off it! The only counter I had to any of this was to the idea that photo developers should be trained to be more lenient (for reasons I've made clear); I also believe that the guy in the article was a pussy and that he overreacted in most every aspect of the situation.

I assume it was a magazine article in which case it should read like it does, with extra added suspense and crap, but most of it was just filler and it sounded like he WASN'T treated that badly through the process.

[AstralCrux]

Dude, I'm gonna assume your mom is a good cop. But, I'm downright paranoid of them over all the shyt that's happened to me and my family involving cops. They don't care where I come from. If it weren't for court cases that are current I'd go into detail, but I now get panic attacks around cops.

The system is screwed because people will just never be bright. We could train people repeatedly each week, but to be honest with all of you I don't think I would work on the vast majority. It would cut things down sure, but that's with the bright people who can comprehend complex things.

I generally have faith in humanity, but my co-workers are forcing me to believe that people are insanely dumber then they let most people believe. Pardon my rant.

[BrassFusion]

actually, my mom isn't a cop. she'd be a terrible cop, she's too sweet. She's the chief data analyst... she's the reason Sterling Heights looks so much safer than other communities, i guess you could say

i've just met a lot of awesome cops through her. i've even been pulled over several times by guys that didn't know she was my mom (cuz i'm not a namedropper), but they were still good guys, as far as my opinion goes. i like people, so i like police officers unless they give me a good reason not to, and none that i've met personally have.

[AstralCrux]

The cops in my area were being investigated by the FBI and well concerning someone I know, at least one is a child molester. I could go on, or rather I can't. That instance doesn't have anything to do with the case.

[Rayne]

she's the reason Sterling Heights looks so much safer than other communities, i guess you could say

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I never really thought Sterling Heights "looked" any safer than say, Garden City, where I'm originally from. I used to live in New Baltimore ... Sterling Heights wasn't considered too safe then. In fact, I had to fight with the cops there when I crashed and totalled a car there because the self employed trucker who hit me and totalled my car gave the cop who wrote the report false insurance and contact information.

... I ended up having to sue MY OWN insurance company and sit in litigation for 6 months because the Sterling Heights PD would not follow up on the correct license plate number they had.

[BrassFusion]

A couple years ago Sterling Heights was... well, statistically... the safest city in the state. "Safest" as in lowest rate of violent or othersorts of crimes. My mom basically massaged some numbers and in whatever categories SH was the best.

The actual performance of the cops has nothing to do with whether people commit crimes in the first place, at any rate. I still like most of the SH cops I've met. Sorry that crap happened to you.

And I got your pm. I DID read the whole thing, and yeah, what happened to you is bullshit, but it's not really the same circumstance.

[Rayne]

I lived up there in 2000 and 2001.

[BrassFusion]

To clarify, a couple posts back... Sterling Heights "looked" safer on paper.