Are we so small in the universe?

[phee]

Part of what I like about admitting that I don't know is... It doesn't isolate anybodies beliefs... I have talked to Rayne about how things in her life as of late seem to bode well with Native American Coyote stories...

And it also doesn't declare other peoples beliefs as Wrong

[BrassFusion]

I agree that it could be anything.  Hell, it could just be a random, pleasurable firing of synapses in my brain for all I know.  I'd like to believe that it's something greater than me, but nothing has proven itself thus far...

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

why do you WANT to believe it's something greater than you? i prefer the thought that we're all our own gods... anything else makes me feel insignificant.

(btw pardon the choppy nonsense language, i'm wildly hungover)

[kellygrrrrrl]

I just simply realize my insignificance, my smallness within the vastness of the universe, my mortality etc....

I also see the beauty and complexity of things that science I think will never be able to explain.

I see the simple things that are there.

Always being a philosophical (sp) thinker, and my intense love for science, I have concluded that it would be almost ridiculous to believe that it all happened by accident.

Everything is so complex and everything is needed to coincide with each other.....if there was anything out of place even my a millimeter, it would all crumble....be non-existant

[Rayne]

Part of what I like about admitting that I don't know is... It doesn't isolate anybodies beliefs... I have talked to Rayne about how things in her life as of late seem to bode well with Native American Coyote stories...

And it also doesn't declare other peoples beliefs as Wrong

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Yep.

And my weird intuition.

[HipsterDufus]

why do you WANT to believe it's something greater than you? i prefer the thought that we're all our own gods... anything else makes me feel insignificant.

(btw pardon the choppy nonsense language, i'm wildly hungover)

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I feel that, by lacking any sort of spirituality, I'm missing out on part of the human experience.

For instance... I'm not even interested in organized religion, but I do feel that there's something greater inside me that's just waiting to be developed. I feel that it could even probably be expressed pyschologically. I feel that spirituality is a way of tapping into ourselves and discovering more about who we are. To not be spiritual seems to be denying myself something.

[phee]

I just simply realize my insignificance, my smallness within the vastness of the universe, my mortality etc....

I also see the beauty and complexity of things that science I think will never be able to explain.

I see the simple things that are there.

Always being a philosophical (sp) thinker, and my intense love for science, I have concluded that it would be almost ridiculous to believe that it all happened by accident.

Everything is so complex and everything is needed to coincide with each other.....if there was anything out of place even my a millimeter, it would all crumble....be non-existant

Are you familiar with Hawkings and the multiple universe theory... It explains that things can form without an intelligence behind it...

I never really liked that idea that because something is complex, then someone must have made it... Just because it's beyond our minds as they are right now, doesn't mean that an intelligence made it... all it means is that the universe is complex...

[kellygrrrrrl]

I think extremely highly of the theories, and hypothosies of Hawkings, as well as Einstein....

We have a lot of fact at our fingertips, but we also have a lot of theories, and hypothosies....

just merely interpretations...educated guesses.

Inconclusive.

Humanity will always strive for a factual or scientific answer to explain everything.

I have deep admiration for science and a deep respect for it.

But, it is usually inconclusive when taken to the very next level.....you can always question the conclusions....whatever it may be.

My point being, nobody can agree on one single conclusion.

Things like why do have feelings, and why do I have a longing to live forever when I know death is imminent, what is the miricle of life? what is this little person in my brain...why does it torment me so....why do I hear a voice telling me things...(my concious <SP>)...why di I exist? There HAS to be a purpose.....

it makes me deeply sad to think that I am just an insect.

the complexity of things is intriguing.

Sometimes I think we as humans get in a little deep over our heads with information. It confuses.

We want to know everything. But knowing isn't everything.

I mean really, is the origin of the Universe relevant to anything?

If we knew the answer scientifically what would that give us?

Just some knowledge.

I believe science and "I hate the word religion"......go together.

What is that little spark when the sperm reaches the egg that makes it start to grow more cells.....and then growe into a person.

Electric charges make the body go...but how did it get there? Why?

Who how, what huh?

I think there is more than meets the eye!

But I don't know what.

[Msterbeau]

Yep.

And my weird intuition.

YOUR intution? That's on loan from me and don't you forget it.

[phee]

I think extremely highly of the theories, and hypothosies of Hawkings, as well as Einstein....

We have a lot of fact at our fingertips, but we also have a lot of theories, and hypothosies....

just merely interpretations...educated guesses.

Inconclusive.

Humanity will always strive for a factual or scientific answer to explain everything.

I have deep admiration for science and a deep respect for it.

But, it is usually inconclusive when taken to the very next level.....you can always question the conclusions....whatever it may be.

My point being, nobody can agree on one single conclusion.

Things like why do have feelings, and why do I have a longing to live forever when I know death is imminent, what is the miricle of life? what is this little person in my brain...why does it torment me so....why do I hear a voice telling me things...(my concious )...why di I exist?  There HAS to be a purpose.....

it makes me deeply sad to think that I am just an insect.

the complexity of things is intriguing. 

Sometimes I think we as humans get in a little deep over our heads with information.  It confuses. 

We want to know everything.  But knowing isn't everything. 

I mean really, is the origin of the Universe relevant to anything? 

If we knew the answer scientifically what would that give us? 

Just some knowledge.

I believe science and "I hate the word religion"......go together.

What is that little spark when the sperm reaches the egg that makes it start to grow more cells.....and then growe into a person.

Electric charges make the body go...but how did it get there?  Why? 

Who how, what huh?

I think there is more than meets the eye!

But I don't know what.

Exactly we don't know why... It could be anything

[Steven]

I think extremely highly of the theories, and hypothosies of Hawkings, as well as Einstein....

We have a lot of fact at our fingertips, but we also have a lot of theories, and hypothosies....

just merely interpretations...educated guesses.

Inconclusive.

Humanity will always strive for a factual or scientific answer to explain everything.

I have deep admiration for science and a deep respect for it.

But, it is usually inconclusive when taken to the very next level.....you can always question the conclusions....whatever it may be.

My point being, nobody can agree on one single conclusion.

Things like why do have feelings, and why do I have a longing to live forever when I know death is imminent, what is the miricle of life? what is this little person in my brain...why does it torment me so....why do I hear a voice telling me things...(my concious <SP>)...why di I exist?  There HAS to be a purpose.....

it makes me deeply sad to think that I am just an insect.

the complexity of things is intriguing. 

Sometimes I think we as humans get in a little deep over our heads with information.  It confuses. 

We want to know everything.  But knowing isn't everything. 

I mean really, is the origin of the Universe relevant to anything? 

If we knew the answer scientifically what would that give us? 

Just some knowledge.

I believe science and "I hate the word religion"......go together.

What is that little spark when the sperm reaches the egg that makes it start to grow more cells.....and then growe into a person.

Electric charges make the body go...but how did it get there?  Why? 

Who how, what huh?

I think there is more than meets the eye!

But I don't know what.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

once again.......great post.

[kellygrrrrrl]

God, Design, and the Constants of Physics

What are some of these fundamental constants of physics that are essential for life to exist in the universe? A report in The Orange County Register of January 8, 1995, listed a few of these constants. It stressed how fine-tuned these features must be, stating: "The quantitative values of many basic physical constants defining the universe—for example, the charge of an electron, or the fixed velocity of light, or the ratio of the strengths of fundamental forces in nature—are ravishingly precise, some to 120 decimal places. The development of a life-breeding universe is exceedingly sensitive to these specifications. Any tiny variation—a nanosecond here, an angstrom there—and the universe might well have been dead and barren."

The author of this report then mentioned the usually unmentionable: "It seems more reasonable to assume that some mysterious bias lurks within the process, perhaps in the action of an intelligent and intentional power who fine-tuned the universe in preparation for our arrival."

George Greenstein, professor of astronomy and cosmology, gave a longer list of these physical constants in his book The Symbiotic Universe. Among those listed were constants so fine-tuned that if they were off to the very slightest degree, no atoms, no stars, no universe, would have ever been possible. The details of these relationships are listed in the accompanying box. They must exist for physical life to be possible. They are complex and may not be understood by all readers, but they are recognized, along with many others, by astrophysicists trained in these areas.

As this list lengthened, Greenstein became overwhelmed. He said: "So many coincidences! The more I read, the more I became convinced that such 'coincidences' could hardly have happened by chance. But as this conviction grew, something else grew as well. Even now it is difficult to express this 'something' in words. It was an intense revulsion, and at times it was almost physical in nature. I would positively squirm with discomfort. . . . Is it possible that suddenly, without intending to, we have stumbled upon scientific proof of the existence of a Supreme Being? Was it God who stepped in and so providentially crafted the cosmos for our benefit?"

Sickened and horrified by the thought, Greenstein quickly recanted, recovered his scientifically religious orthodoxy, and proclaimed: "God is not an explanation." No reason—it was just so unpalatable that he could not stomach the thought!

A Listing of Some of the Physical Constants Necessary for Life to Exist

The charges of electron and proton must be equal and opposite; the neutron must outweigh the proton by a tiny percent; a matching must exist between temperature of the sun and the absorptive properties of chlorophyll before photosynthesis can occur; if the strong force were a little weaker, the sun could not generate energy by nuclear reactions, but if it were a little stronger, the fuel needed to generate energy would be violently unstable; without two separate remarkable resonances between nuclei in the cores of red giant stars, no element beyond helium could have been formed; had space been less than three dimensions, the interconnections for blood flow and the nervous system would be impossible; and if space had been more than three dimensions, planets could not orbit the sun stably.—The Symbiotic Universe

Just an interesting read I found

[Steven]

Sickened and horrified by the thought, Greenstein quickly recanted, recovered his scientifically religious orthodoxy, and proclaimed: "God is not an explanation." No reason—it was just so unpalatable that he could not stomach the thought!

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

this.....is exactly what I mean.

[BrassFusion]

I don't buy it. The reason I don't buy it is because while it may be true that the forces of physics are so exact that nothing would exist without them, it's ALSO possible (likely, if you ask me) that infinite universes exist that we cannot see. Out of a set of infinite universes, a few of them would have to have physical laws that produced stable matter. The ones that don't fail, and we're never aware of them. It's just like survival of the fittest on a much larger and smaller scale.

[kellygrrrrrl]

this.....is exactly what I mean.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

What do you mean?

About what?

Sorry slow...

or point me to your post preceeding it!

:whistling

[HipsterDufus]

Here's an interesting perspective on the universe. Much more "goth" than we've discussed up until this point. =)

Oh yeah, keep in mind that's from a horror author. Just a passage that I liked.

[Steven]

What do you mean?

About what?

Sorry slow...

or point me to your post preceeding it!

:whistling 

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

that the 'scientific' potential for acknowledging that there may indeed be an all knowing universal power often causes an instantaneous and emotional dismissal.

ie: nobody wants to acknowledge "GOD" - because nobody wants to have to yeild to him/he/she/it .....

[BrassFusion]

that the 'scientific' potential for acknowledging that there may indeed be an all knowing universal power often causes an instantaneous  and emotional dismissal.

ie:  nobody wants to acknowledge "GOD" - because nobody wants to have to yeild to him/he/she/it .....

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

No, the reason science doesn't acknowledge God is because God is the antithesis to science. For millenia we've been using God to explain things Science couldn't. At least not yet. Now people are using Science to explain things that have been attributed to God, and people get pissed off about it for some bizarre reason.

[torn asunder]

No, the reason science doesn't acknowledge God is because God is the antithesis to science. For millenia we've been using God to explain things Science couldn't. At least not yet. Now people are using Science to explain things that have been attributed to God, and people get pissed off about it for some bizarre reason.

actually, in a lot of the interviews i read with scientists, they're starting to warm up to the idea of combining spirituality (in some form) and pure science, especially when discussing things like superstring theory...

[BrassFusion]

actually, in a lot of the interviews i read with scientists, they're starting to warm up to the idea of combining spirituality (in some form) and pure science, especially when discussing things like superstring theory...

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

But any scientists who base new theories on the idea that there is NECESSARILY a higher consciousness aren't real scientists.

[Gauge]

But any scientists who base new theories on the idea that there is NECESSARILY a higher consciousness aren't real scientists.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

your kidding right. . .

[BrassFusion]

your kidding right. . .

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

No. What did I just say, in your own words?

[Steven]

No, the reason science doesn't acknowledge God is because God is the antithesis to science. For millenia we've been using God to explain things Science couldn't. At least not yet. Now people are using Science to explain things that have been attributed to God, and people get pissed off about it for some bizarre reason.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

your missing my point babe.

[Steven]

But any scientists who base new theories on the idea that there is NECESSARILY a higher consciousness aren't real scientists.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

sez you.

incidently you may want to check out scientists like chuck missler.

[Steven]

No. What did I just say, in your own words?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I said sez you (sez me)

[BrassFusion]

I'll reiterate:

Any scientist who tries to formulate a new theory that presupposes there is definitely a higher power in the universe is NOT A REAL SCIENTIST, because the point of science is to explain nature in the context of logic, not faith.

Not to say there's no god, or no spiritual scientists. Far from it. But the job of the scientist is to assume that there's no god and go from there.