so I've been thinking.....

[Steven]

I woke up this morniing with it on my mind......you know what I mean.

and I got online before leaving to work, to find (and rightfully so) that this tug of war between the two Steve's had been mercifully shut down.

Shut

Down.

I mean this is me right? And I had be shut down? Me?

yeah, I did. And was the right thing to do.

I am a big proponent of transparancy. You guys know that. Warts and all, let em see it, perhaps it can be of some use to somebody somewhere along the line. I know for myself - all of whats posted on DGN I take wth me, even the things I may disagree with. But I have to admit, that its not always so effective.

As I drove to work with the radio off and my cigarette burning that's all that kept coming to the forefront of my mind: you got nowhere with this one Steven, except shut down. You may have started off with good intentions, but you were a car crash in the end.

Marc summed it up beautifully: "much ado about nothing" I think in this case, he's right.

I kept telling myself over the last couple of days, that I was drawing something out, exposing something flawed, and I was right.

Me. (long pause for dramatic effect).

and I further realized that after dismissing the option to continue in a PM format - it did not at any point come to my attention that I was co-creating tension and dischord (and exhaustion?) for the group as a whole. Literally all that came to mind was "we started this here (in public), let's finish this here (in public)" and in the process I tossed aside most of the the rules of DGN and disregarded some important guidelines that are set there for a reason. All I saw was Steve (Game of Chance). I ceased to see the rest of you, the community that I am proud of. Every community needs a set of ground rules. I probably broke about 38 of them here this week.

At one point, I charged Steve with failing to look at the end result.

And yet I am guilty of exactly what I charged him with am I not? And If I cannot or will not take a look at what I've done or where it's led, then I simply am not the man I claim to be, or......aspire to be. and trust me, THAT - I'm looking at now.

And I'm not going to speak for Steve. I doubt that we will ever be fishing partners, or bowling buddies, it happens....sometimes certain personalities just clash. Apparently ours do. He wont be calling and I wont be going to his house and we will not be starting up war of the titans 2 when he returns to the board.

for awhile this morning I began to think that maybe I need to take a DGN break.

But I dont really want to do that. I'm proud of DGN, its people, its content, is many facets, I'm even proud of the fact that I got shut down on DGN. I trust you guys. And you Moderators did a good job. And you people that said in effect "hey - dumbass' you did a good job too.

I'll leave you all wth one truth however, that I had stated in our war of wills that I simply cannot abandon: Kelly's ass is definately cuter than mine. (we have to pick our battles)

Steven

[Msterbeau]

And this is why I respect you Steven. Your thought process is there for all of us to see, even if it's painful on your side.

When the two Marc/Marks had our last test of wills... I thought a vacation from DGN might be a good idea. It still might be. But I agree... I like this place and most of the people here, even if I disagree with various viewpoints, I generally learn stuff worth learning. I'm staying and I'm glad you are too.

[HipsterDufus]

Don't take it too hard Steven. In any discussion, in can be easy to have a heated argument flare up seemingly out of nowhere. With no facial expressions or body language to go on, it's even easier to misinterpret what another person says and take it in a bad way.

Heck the first time I joined up on this board and started posting last December, I was all fired up. I would attack anyone/anything that didn't agree with me. I'd get argumentative for stupid reasons (remember the Christmas prayer thread?). Um, yeah, I needed a break. I'd like to think I grew up a little since then; I no longer look to be offended by anyone on this board. So, I decided to start posting again, mostly because of some very interesting conversations that had taken place since my absence (that include you, mind you). For me, I'd like to think it's all about exchange of ideas. No one was right or wrong in that thread, but I do think that the exchange of ideas got muddled by some very negative emotions. Just take a deep breath and regroup. As long as we can keep the ideas flowing, I'd say we all stand a chance at bettering ourselves (or at least finding some entertainment along the way!) :grin

[kellygrrrrrl]

You're such a thoughtful person Steven.

I would say a lot of people would not take the time to point out thier own error, and you did.

That is very admirable, and again, thoughtful.

You know, just a thought.

Which is a thought I think a lot of people think....(get that?)

It is really alarming how such a topic can create such heat between people.

It really upsetting that minor dissagreements in opinion on faith can cause so much conflict.

I mean, this is on a small scale.....

The whole world is in conflict over faiths....or "what they believe in".....

You know?

Somethings gotta give.

But it won't, as long as there is dissagreement in how we should / shouldn't worship.

People really do have to find thier own ways.

Nobody can tell anyone what to believe. We as individuals can always offer up our expiriences, and offer them our own knowledge, but things work in strange ways....once the "information" is offered and it usually is in some way or another, things work in weird ways....internally....people will find thier lot.

I think you - Steven, understand what I mean.

One thing that is so hard to rid yourself of is Anger.

If you have anger, how can you successfully talk about something where this is differences, and not get upset....angry.

Takes MUCH patience, and MUCH counting to 10.....(yeah I'm one to talk OK....)

Which defeats the whole purpose. If the presentation is bad, an impression is made on the inforamtion as a whole.....which will naturally detere people...

OK>RAMBLING again....

:whistling

[BrassFusion]

And this is why I respect you Steven. Your thought process is there for all of us to see, even if it's painful on your side.

When the two Marc/Marks had our last test of wills... I thought a vacation from DGN might be a good idea. It still might be. But I agree... I like this place and most of the people here, even if I disagree with various viewpoints, I generally learn stuff worth learning. I'm staying and I'm glad you are too.

Is it just a shitstorm waiting to happen when you have two people with names that are one letter difference but not exactly the same?

Y'all know I'm not a religious person, but God help us all if an "Erinn" ever joins the board.

[Brenda Starrr]

I love you, Steven.

Yes, you went a bit far. But you came out and apologized like a big boy. That is so grown up.

[Msterbeau]

Is it just a shitstorm waiting to happen when you have two people with names that are one letter difference but not exactly the same?

Y'all know I'm not a religious person, but God help us all if an "Erinn" ever joins the board.

I was thinking that myself... :whistling :laughing

[phee]

One of the best and most rare human traits these days is the ability to take a step back and realize that a mistake was made...

Admirable self reflection... and so rare

[Steven]

Marc - much apprecaited. you always set a good example. and no no - no DGN breaks...

Hipster - I'm fine but thank you anyway. Very good point about the lack of a visual to go with the delivery. And I forgot about the X mas prayer thread!!!

Kelly - I think I know what your thinking......thank you love. ANd your dead on about the anger.

Brass - you DO crack me up. Good timing.

Brenda - XOXOXOXOXOXOX (XXX)

Phee - I'm diggin you dude. Your pants rule.

Steven

[Msterbeau]

Marc - much apprecaited. you always set a good example. and no no - no DGN breaks...

Always?? :blink

Dude... I'm human too...

[Shade Everdark]

Hell, I don't always set a good example.

Anyway, Steven, I'm glad you've the honesty, and the courage to do a little self-reflection.

Right or wrong, it's too seldom seen in the world today.

Kudos.

[Guest Game of Chance]

Ready to start a new thread?? :doh

All kidding aside, I honestly didn't think there was anything wrong with the thread UNTIL it got personal.

It takes a lot of, shall we say cajones, to defend your principles. Personally, I feel more so when they don't necessarily coincide with the mainstream. It wasn't that long ago that they burned people at the stake (in this country even) for having views outside of Christianity.

At no point (in my mind), was I attacking you, simply the morals and dogma that go along with most western religious philosophies.

I hope you can appreciate that.

-Steve

P.S. As a matter of fact, my name is spelled Stephen

[BrassFusion]

Damn, that was pretty close to an apology.

[Guest Game of Chance]

Damn, that was pretty close to an apology.

Let's not start this whole thing over again, BUT...I really have nothing to apologize for.

[BrassFusion]

Let's not start this whole thing over again, BUT...I really have nothing to apologize for.

yeah, I totally understand, it can be super hard to admit that.

[Guest Game of Chance]

LOL...<bites tongue>

Nope, I'm going to say it after all. I'm not the one who's into the whole sin/forgiveness thing. I do my Will and ultimately the only one that I feel I need to explain myself to is...my Self.

That alone is enough for me.

[Homicidalheathen]

I don't always agree with you but like your posts. It ads to the flavor of the board, we need all sides...all views....all opinions.....

I guess taking a break once in a while from the internet in general is good for the mind and soul.......just....hope you pop in once a week or so and come back when your ready.

[BrassFusion]

LOL...<bites tongue>

Nope, I'm going to say it after all. I'm not the one who's into the whole sin/forgiveness thing. I do my Will and ultimately the only one that I feel I need to explain myself to is...my Self.

That alone is enough for me.

I don't believe in sin, either. I do believe in treating people as you'd like to be treated, however. It works pretty well, usually.

[Steven]

I'm going to try to be breif here - in an effor to avoid a debate - as that was not the intention fo this particular thread.

Perhaps I am and perhaps I am not the oen Steve alluded to who is "into the whole sin/forgeiveness thing"

that's not my thing. So in response to that I can only say "I'm not either". I'll add the followign thoughts.

ON "SIN":

as I've previously described before - the (*or one, or an) definition of Sin from the translation of text , a verb, and action desribed as an archery term that literally means "to miss the mark".

"SIN", to me (me) is a basic condition, no different than say....the bilogical condition of regression (age) that affects us all unti death takes us. It is a state of being then, part of our human package.

on perfection and the apparent inability on Gods part to allow imperfection caused by sin to enter his presence:

this is a crude example, but I do the best I can:

lets use a hospital surgical or clean room.

it has a self contained and protected sterile environment for a specific purpose.

those who enter it - cover themselves with specific "sterilized" garments and use a specific cleansing routine to protect that sterile environment, to prevent it's being compromised.

the Messianic intervention therefore - is like that covering. It is intended to "purify" an imperfect vessle in an effort to prepare it for introduction into a specific environment. It is a vehicle.

on being into the who sin/forgivenss thing":

not what I'm into.

I beleive in it yes.

But to be called to holiness is not anything more than being called into being of use for God's purposes, it is a willfull offering of yrou own life and talent pool. Being holy equates to more than "yes, use me". that's it. It has nothing to do with worthiness, or righteousness. In fact righteousness I suppose, is the offshoot of Holiness, which equates to willingness. Again - it does not up yor personal ante. It does not make you better or more worthwhile. It simply makes you usable.

My trip is and always has been, simply that of trying to model myself after Christ the Son of Man. Not Christ the DemiGod. Not Christ the man with no sin. Christ - who willfully limited himself and his own desires to be of use to a greater cause and calling.

I'm looking for the man strung up between two theives. that's it. that's Christianity. In so doing, hopefully it causes me to reach out toward others in every community that will allow me to enter in, as it suits their needs, as it pleases them and not myself. Which in turn, pleases God.

I dont spend a bunch of time on the sin/forgivenss trip.

I simply beleive that I am limited. And a sinner. And that I am forgiven. If there is "worthiness' in any of that process - the worthiness comes from and points back to the forgiver, not back to me.

My name is Steven.

I'm trying to do what God asks me to do thru the model of his son.

I do the best I can, push myself as much as I can, release as much as I can, look outward as much as I can, serve as much as I can. Yes I am a servant. But my strength is given, never taken. If that servitude places me within arguable preconceptions of modern slavery, so be it.

I know what I'm doing. and why. whoevr takes along the way, then they take. As long as I reach my goal - I lived as I beleived, and no one can take that from you.

[phee]

I'm going to try to be breif here - in an effor to avoid a debate - as that was not the intention fo this particular thread.

Perhaps I am and perhaps I am not the oen Steve alluded to who is "into the whole sin/forgeiveness thing"

that's not my thing. So in response to that I can only say "I'm not either". I'll add the followign thoughts.

ON "SIN":

as I've previously described before - the (*or one, or an) definition of Sin from the translation of text , a verb, and action desribed as an archery term that literally means "to miss the mark".

"SIN", to me (me) is a basic condition, no different than say....the bilogical condition of regression (age) that affects us all unti death takes us. It is a state of being then, part of our human package.

on perfection and the apparent inability on Gods part to allow imperfection caused by sin to enter his presence:

this is a crude example, but I do the best I can:

lets use a hospital surgical or clean room.

it has a self contained and protected sterile environment for a specific purpose.

those who enter it - cover themselves with specific "sterilized" garments and use a specific cleansing routine to protect that sterile environment, to prevent it's being compromised.

the Messianic intervention therefore - is like that covering. It is intended to "purify" an imperfect vessle in an effort to prepare it for introduction into a specific environment. It is a vehicle.

on being into the who sin/forgivenss thing":

not what I'm into.

I beleive in it yes.

But to be called to holiness is not anything more than being called into being of use for God's purposes, it is a willfull offering of yrou own life and talent pool. Being holy equates to more than "yes, use me". that's it. It has nothing to do with worthiness, or righteousness. In fact righteousness I suppose, is the offshoot of Holiness, which equates to willingness. Again - it does not up yor personal ante. It does not make you better or more worthwhile. It simply makes you usable.

My trip is and always has been, simply that of trying to model myself after Christ the Son of Man. Not Christ the DemiGod. Not Christ the man with no sin. Christ - who willfully limited himself and his own desires to be of use to a greater cause and calling.

I'm looking for the man strung up between two theives. that's it. that's Christianity. In so doing, hopefully it causes me to reach out toward others in every community that will allow me to enter in, as it suits their needs, as it pleases them and not myself. Which in turn, pleases God.

I dont spend a bunch of time on the sin/forgivenss trip.

I simply beleive that I am limited. And a sinner. And that I am forgiven. If there is "worthiness' in any of that process - the worthiness comes from and points back to the forgiver, not back to me.

My name is Steven.

I'm trying to do what God asks me to do thru the model of his son.

I do the best I can, push myself as much as I can, release as much as I can, look outward as much as I can, serve as much as I can. Yes I am a servant. But my strength is given, never taken. If that servitude places me within arguable preconceptions of modern slavery, so be it.

I know what I'm doing. and why. whoevr takes along the way, then they take. As long as I reach my goal - I lived as I beleived, and no one can take that from you.

I think I get what you are saying... but there are a lot of assumptions about the universe in your statement.. that may only be true to you and you alone.

[Steven]

I think I get what you are saying... but there are a lot of assumptions about the universe in your statement.. that may only be true to you and you alone.

and thats ok with me.

if we cant decide on our own or make up our minds then we'll lack conviction.

just sharing some of mine......

[phee]

and thats ok with me.

if we cant decide on our own or make up our minds then we'll lack conviction.

just sharing some of mine......

Kewl