If You Want To Be Equal Then Don't Be A Separatist.

[Vater Araignee]

Ok here is one example that got me started on this.

I am into chainmail.

A person that creates chainmail is called a Chainmailer or Mailer for short.

Wile researching a specific weave, I happened upon a group calling themselves Femailers.

My brain started screaming!!!!!!!

First, we don't call an Afro centric mailer a Blackmailer.

Second, femail is a specific type of decorative chainmail clothing designed to hug the contours of the female form.

Third, not a single one of these women make armor or decorative clothing effectual rendering them Jewelers or Metal Smiths.

We don't call Female Jewelers Fejewelers. We don't call women Black Smiths, Feblack Smiths. We don't call women Glass Blowers, Female Glass Blowers. I'm sure Mr. Glass wouldn't like that yuck yuck yuck.

There are tons of examples like the preceding.

My grand father, I'm sure you can imagine how he was.

My father, some place in between.

Me? I can except a woman as an equal, that is until she insists on considering her self separate or superior because of her sex.

There is only one solution for this problem that is legal. Grow the fuck up!

Now do I have to also complain about the chauvinists to keep people from acting like a child and bitching at me about them.

like I said "Grow the fuck up!" Do unto others as you would have them do unto you, not as they do unto you.

[Scary Guy]

"And those beastly man-haters, tell those chicks to shave their pits then call me!" - Rand from P.C.U.

[Msterbeau]

In automotive design, clay-modelers are also called "sculptors". Fair enough... that's a large part of what they do and many of them are fine artists to begin with. There was one woman in particular (Super sweet lady, BTW.) that HATED when we jokingly used the term "sculptress" to denote those of the feminine persuasion. So she was the only one we refered to that way. :-)

[Scary Guy]

At least you didn't call her bitch. Point is things could be worse.

What pisses me off are the ones who want equality but complain when they get the same workload as a man would have in their position. Then again there are others who just work non stop and should probalby make more, but don't because of their gender. If we started paying people what they were actually worth though the economy would colapse, but we'd probably have enough money left over to pay the national debt at least.

[Troy Spiral (13)]

Often there are terms like "female driver" or "female firefighter". I assume the idea there is that it is/was unusual to see females doing such things so they come up with a special phrase for it? Depending on perspective it could be viewed as an asset to use such terms or a liablity. Difficult to say as there are many takes on such language.

Not sure its meant to be offensive nessisarly. Just "feels" that way at first reading.

But i do understand your point. Often "equality" means "treat me equally only when it suits me... otherwise treat me separately when its to my benefit".

[BrassFusion]

I'm not sure what Vater's problem is. The word "Femailers" is a pun, and therefore, it's freaking awesome. I <3 puns. It could have something to do with penpals or some bullshit... who cares? Aren't there better things to get worked up about?

[Vater Araignee]

In automotive design, clay-modelers are also called "sculptors". Fair enough... that's a large part of what they do and many of them are fine artists to begin with. There was one woman in particular (Super sweet lady, BTW.) that HATED when we jokingly used the term "sculptress" to denote those of the feminine persuasion. So she was the only one we refered to that way. :-)

You are cruel and she is commendable.

Often there are terms like "female driver" or "female firefighter". I assume the idea there is that it is/was unusual to see females doing such things so they come up with a special phrase for it? Depending on perspective it could be viewed as an asset to use such terms or a liablity. Difficult to say as there are many takes on such language.

Not sure its meant to be offensive nessisarly. Just "feels" that way at first reading.

But i do understand your point. Often "equality" means "treat me equally only when it suits me... otherwise treat me separately when its to my benefit".

Not meant to be offensive and my one joke was based off of Judy Browns joke in Medusa, a bad joke but one that seemed to fit.

I'm not sure what Vater's problem is.

The separatist attitude.

The word "Femailers" is a pun, and therefore, it's freaking awesome. I <3 puns.

There is already a pun called Femail or did you not bother to read that as the pun that it obviously is.

It could have something to do with penpals or some bullshit... who cares? Aren't there better things to get worked up about?

Are you saying that sexism is nothing to get worked up over, or perhaps you are kicking up a double standards and saying that it is ok when women practice it?

Allow me to put one thing in better perspective.

Even if I didn't have issue with the term Femailer, I would still take issue with the fact that these particular women do not make...

Main Entry: chain mail

Function: noun

: flexible armor of interlinked metal rings

... and are therefor jewelers not mailers.

And this is only but one example that I see this type of garbage. Lets take the welders at my place of employment.

9 of the 11 women that weld will correct you if you just call them a welder "That's Female Welder".

Yea like that makes you better then me? I "know" not. Out of the 11 only one is on my skill level and none are above and that one get offended when she hears the term female or woman welder.

Sexism makes me want to vomit no matter what direction it comes from.

[BrassFusion]

I wonder if the doctors who perform sex changes could turn people into hermaphrodites with really androgenous secondary characteristics. Then we could all be the same gender and probably stop poverty and war.

[Troy Spiral (13)]

I didnt think you were trying to be rude vater. Its obvious your just upset and trying to voice/vent your thought/opinion on the subject.

Im sure someone might think its overly blunt but its fine.

The idea that this is "you making a big deal out of nothing" i think is a common cultural repsonse to such things.

For instance there is a longstanding (illegal in many situiations btw there are articles about it aplenty if you care to research such things) tradtion of having "ladies night" where they get in free or free drinks or whatever without also having a "mens night". This subject is often viewed as "wtf is his problem?? is he an ass or just cant get a date or something??" I really DONT care about such a thing, just an example of the double standard.

Not sure if thats fair or not but it is just a common viewpoint. When the "argument" is against some subject that favors a minority it seems to be either unethical or unfair or just plain "pointless". If it favors whatever the "majority" happens to be then its usually an outrage.

[Scary Guy]

Or what about "male nurse" or "male steward(ess)" or "flight attendent" as they're known now or "the lady on the plane" as George Carlin says, male secretary. Funny thing is you can drop the male from infront of all of them and it sounds somewhat normal these days. Oh yeah can't forget male stripper.

[Troy Spiral (13)]

good examples SG. I was trying to think of some a moment ago and was drawing a blank.

[creatureofthenyte]

The thing that really makes me mad is when I hear people say in conversation: all men do this, or all women do this.....

I was at work the other day, and I heard a woman claim that all men base everything on sex.

Bullshit. total bullshit. I hear men and women make generalized statements along those lines and it really pisses me off. just because one person of each gender might do/say something, doesnt mean we all do/say it.

[sass_in_the_pants]

The thing that really makes me mad is when I hear people say in conversation: all men do this, or all women do this.....

I was at work the other day, and I heard a woman claim that all men base everything on sex.

Bullshit. total bullshit. I hear men and women make generalized statements along those lines and it really pisses me off. just because one person of each gender might do/say something, doesnt mean we all do/say it.

ALL men say that! :grin

[BrassFusion]

ALL men say that! :grin

So I guess all men are hypocrites, too!

[Vater Araignee]

Or what about "male nurse" or "male steward(ess)" or "flight attendent" as they're known now or "the lady on the plane" as George Carlin says, male secretary. Funny thing is you can drop the male from infront of all of them and it sounds somewhat normal these days. Oh yeah can't forget male stripper.

This was actually done to degrade males, especially Male Stewardess, considering stewardess is the feminine of steward.

[Fierce Critter]

I happen to agree with Vater.

I can tend towards extreme feminism.

But I really actually just prefer that things in daily life not be seperatist in any way. I'm also anti affirmative action, anti "quota" of any kind.

Hire the best applicant. Fire the bad worker. etc.

I bristle at things like "ladies' nights," but I don't have a problem with "men's clubs". Oh for pete's sake - I'm not interested in your stodgy old-man talk and stinky cigars. Go off with your man-friends and beat your chests for a couple hours, then come home and give me a fucking foot rub.

:grin

[BrassFusion]

I used to get concerned about ladies' nights, but the thing is, men are generally more desperate to get laid than women. You could argue that it's how we're wired, or just how it is in our culture, but that's why men pay for more dates than women, and that's why men get annoyed by "sausage fests," but women can still have fun with a "girls' night out."

Ladies' nights are good for everyone. They draw women, and guys will go to them because they know there are going to be chicks taking advantage of no cover and/or drink specials. It would be cool if bars DID do "Mens' Nights," and YES, I would definitely attend something like that, but would they really be as successful?

[Troy Spiral (13)]

I do.. behind closed doors use language like "men do..." "women do..." as i think its acurate. Thats not to say that "all men" or "all women" do X. Its , i think assumed to mean "a large number , perhaps the majority of men/women" Just doesn't take as many words to say.

I do realize many dont view such terminology so open mindedly so i tend to avoid such terms in more mixed company (such as on a message board) No need to rub people the wrong way when i can make my point by just adding another sentence or two. =)

[sass_in_the_pants]

I used to get concerned about ladies' nights, but the thing is, men are generally more desperate to get laid than women. You could argue that it's how we're wired, or just how it is in our culture, but that's why men pay for more dates than women, and that's why men get annoyed by "sausage fests," but women can still have fun with a "girls' night out."

Ladies' nights are good for everyone. They draw women, and guys will go to them because they know there are going to be chicks taking advantage of no cover and/or drink specials. It would be cool if bars DID do "Mens' Nights," and YES, I would definitely attend something like that, but would they really be as successful?

I have actually been to a Men's Night at a bar. It was in a college town in Minnesota and the college had something like 80% women so they were actually trying to lure the MEN into coming into the bar. Even better, the bar was called the Library and the band playing was called "Hot Professors". Still, I made my friend Todd pay for me and buy me beers. In my mind at least, it's ALWAYS ladies' night!

[Hellion]

The thing that really makes me mad is when I hear people say in conversation: all men do this, or all women do this.....

I was at work the other day, and I heard a woman claim that all men base everything on sex.

Bullshit. total bullshit. I hear men and women make generalized statements along those lines and it really pisses me off. just because one person of each gender might do/say something, doesnt mean we all do/say it.

:devil Yeah how many times have I heard this before,men being 100% for everything.IMO

[Hellion]

At least you didn't call her bitch. Point is things could be worse.

What pisses me off are the ones who want equality but complain when they get the same workload as a man would have in their position. Then again there are others who just work non stop and should probalby make more, but don't because of their gender. If we started paying people what they were actually worth though the economy would colapse, but we'd probably have enough money left over to pay the national debt at least.

:devil good point SG,People who work harder don't get paid as much as the people who don't do hardly anything,IMO,heard this from other people I have work with in the past.

[TygerLili]

In English we do have unisex words to describe a person in most professions, ex: doctor, lawyer, teacher, etc.

When I first started learning German I was really surprised that for almost every profession, they distinguish between men and women by adding -in to the end of a word.

For example: the word "teacher" = der Lehrer for male, and die Lehrerin for female.

[BrassFusion]

In English we do have unisex words to describe a person in most professions, ex: doctor, lawyer, teacher, etc.

When I first started learning German I was really surprised that for almost every profession, they distinguish between men and women by adding -in to the end of a word.

For example: the word "teacher" = der Lehrer for male, and die Lehrerin for female.

We do have a lot of gender-specific professions. Waitress, actress, fireman, shit like that. Some of them have been co-opted to gender neutral, or we've just started using the masculine ones to describe either gender (She's an actor).

The romance languages gender-categorize all their professions, too. And their objects. El reloj. La mesa. La plantana. El agua (irregular).

[creatureofthenyte]

I just don't like when one gender bashes a whole entire other gender for the mistakes or misbehavior of one person.

If a man dates a woman, and he cheats on her, that does not mean that All men are dogs; just the one who cheated is a dog.

Men and Women both have faults, shortcomings and quirks.

I just get really upset when I hear one gender bashing the other unfairly.

Gender based, prejudicial, chauvanistic comments have no place in society if we are supposed to be equals.

[Troy Spiral (13)]

I just don't like when one gender bashes a whole entire other gender for the mistakes or misbehavior of one person.

If a man dates a woman, and he cheats on her, that does not mean that All men are dogs; just the one who cheated is a dog.

Men and Women both have faults, shortcomings and quirks.

I just get really upset when I hear one gender bashing the other unfairly.

Gender based, prejudicial, chauvanistic comments have no place in society if we are supposed to be equals.

Heh that is frustrating to be lumped in with "all" of whatever it is. "I hate all men" Really? What did i do? Or "i hate all women drivers" really ? Every single one? "Its all you americans" Really? WTF did we >all:cry

Seems redicioulus when you calmly think about it, but often its an emotional response rather than a rational one. Its ALL WOMEN that do that!! (obviously joking) But then ALL MEN are idiots so what do i know.