Anti-politically Correct

[Msterbeau]

Ok so... Somebody on this board who doesn't love me anymore, and I, got into it because of a comment he made. It was clearly a race-based derogatory comment, I said so and his reply was: "Oh now I've made a "racist" comment?" Well. Yes you did. "Rice-burner" is clearly meant to be offensive towards asian car owners/makers and that my friend is racism. And clearly this person doesn't seem to get that. So I then get called a rather lovely name. Why? You'll have to ask him why he couldn't carry on a civil conversation about it. But... it got me to thinking about other conversations I've seen on this board or witnessed in real life that were similar and so I thought we'd have yet another topic on free speech versus considerateness and self-censorship for the purpose of carrying on a civil adult conversation.

With free speech comes the responsibility to think about what you say and how you say it. The feeling I get is that people are being lazy when they don't take the time to consider someone elses point of view or really understand the language they use. No... you can't know everything about a situation and therefore there's always the potential to be offensive inadvertantly. But.. that's why the words "I'm sorry" exist. You learn something... you grow. If the person can't accept that, I think that's their problem, but at least you put effort into understanding them. Thoughts? Is it laziness or what? Do you truly think you have the right to say whatever you want without regard for the consequences? Why is it some people wear the term "inconsiderate" like a badge of honor when it comes to how they communicate?

Also.. Ever since the term "Politically Correct" was coined, there's been this backlash against it... Some of it is justified... because some of the lengths people have gone to not offend another seem completley overboard. But. I think some people have used this contemp for "restrictions" on speech as an excuse to be as offensive as possible. They point at the first ammendment like it was a license to be rude and annoying. Um... why?

Why do we call each other names? Have you run out of ideas or useful comments?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Freedom_of_speech

"Free speech is not a simple and absolute concept but a liberty that is justified by even deeper values. Third, the values implicit in the various justifications for free speech may not apply equally strongly to all kinds of speech in all circumstances."

Justified by deeper values.... Hmmm. I'm pretty sure selfishness, laziness, hatred and rudeness are not the deeper values they're refering to.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/First_Amendme...es_Constitution

[phee]

Good post

[Paper Hearts]

Some people are truly prejudiced by intent, however, and they're not sorry for it. Isn't it ridiculous?

[Gaf The Horse With Tears]

It could be worse... the could have called it Oriental. You know, something asian people actually take offense at.

and um, since when is calling a car a bad name racists? Cars have a race now?

[phee]

It could be worse... the could have called it Oriental. You know, something asian people actually take offense at.

and um, since when is calling a car a bad name racists? Cars have a race now?

It's racist because of whom it refers to as the manufactures...

If say a car was made in say Africa... and it was called a watermelon wagon, or something.... I am sure you can see the problem that a person might have

[torn asunder]

honestly, while "rice-burner" is a derogatory term, it's kind of taken on a life of its own, kind of in the same way that saying something is "gay" might just mean "stupid". there was a time where everyone knew these were derogatory, but a lot teens/younger people just learned the phrase without the background meaning, and therefore may just need to be educated on the subject. as for the whole "oriental" vs. "asian" thing, i had an online asian friend who actually used to call things oriental, until her college4 professor told her it was insulting, and then she got offended every time she heard it. i'm sorry, but if someone has to tell you you should be offended, you're an idiot. (oh, shit - did i offend someone with that!?"

[Paper Hearts]

It might not offend some people who aren't Japanese, but doesn't that mean that those people who can't see insult in such a terrible manner of expression are not very sensitive to prejudices, in the first place? People who are sensitive to it, don't accept such terms as "rice-burner", ever, and they don't try to defend such terms. Frankly, we shouldn't be worried about offending people who don't find these terms offensive; the concern are the people who will be offended.

[Msterbeau]

It could be worse... the could have called it Oriental. You know, something asian people actually take offense at.

and um, since when is calling a car a bad name racists? Cars have a race now?

What phee said...

Yeah... it seems harmless. I guess in part it was where it was posted. The original post was about belonging to a car club and if anyone else belonged.. and then this person comments "ew rice burner". It didn't need to be said... or could have been said differently. The phrase "If you don't have anything nice to say, don't say anything" comes to mind, in this case.

Something to think about. We as whites in America have been in the majority for a long time. But think back to the 1800's when there was a large influx of Irish, Italians etc. Everyone held predjudices against others. Why? I have no idea but they all used derogatory names. I guess they all wanted to feel better about themselves so they put down others. Even though they were all of the same race. I guess we've learned to accept each other and direct our predjudices eleswhere. So when is that gonna change?

Mark... I think you've mentioned that human's tend to be tribal. (Or something like that) I accept that that may be true.. that we have a natural desire to fit into some select group. But why must it come at the expense of another group? That's my basic point here... Why must there always be ill-will towards someone because of their differences and why do we communicate it out loud? (These questions are for everyone, not just Mark...)

I should qualify all this... I'm not always the most considerate person in the world. I've told my share of Polish jokes etc... I'm probably a lot more "colorful"in person then on the board. But.. I am trying to improve that. I guess one of the things about a forum like this is that you always have time to think about what you're going to say before you commit it to text and press the "add reply" button.

[Gaf The Horse With Tears]

I have never met anyone of Asian decent that finds the term Rice Burner to be offesive. They all seem to understand that it's a jab against a non-american company... not against a people.

[phee]

I have never met anyone of Asian decent that finds the term Rice Burner to be offesive. They all seem to understand that it's a jab against a non-american company... not against a people.

Good for them!

But I do have relatives that live in Texas... and they have seen the term used in not such an understanding way....

[Msterbeau]

honestly, while "rice-burner" is a derogatory term, it's kind of taken on a life of its own, kind of in the same way that saying something is "gay" might just mean "stupid". there was a time where everyone knew these were derogatory, but a lot teens/younger people just learned the phrase without the background meaning, and therefore may just need to be educated on the subject. as for the whole "oriental" vs. "asian" thing, i had an online asian friend who actually used to call things oriental, until her college4 professor told her it was insulting, and then she got offended every time she heard it. i'm sorry, but if someone has to tell you you should be offended, you're an idiot. (oh, shit - did i offend someone with that!?"

I hear ya on the rice rocket/burner thing. and I agree.. Some phrases take on a life of their own despite their origins. They (For the most part) lose their offensivness. But... the original negativeness is still there. Rice has kinda evolved into a word for bad/cheesy modifications... not neccessarily on an import car. But why not use the word cheesy? Or gross. Or poorly thought-out? Or my favorite: hooptie.

[Paper Hearts]

Oh really? Then why does "rice" have anything to do with things? And why is it used in a derogatory way?

It's ridiculous to accept a prejudiced term simply because lots of people use it and it's even worse to act like nobody has the right to be offended by such a stupid remark, simply because you and your constituents employ it absent-mindedly.

[Msterbeau]

I have never met anyone of Asian decent that finds the term Rice Burner to be offesive. They all seem to understand that it's a jab against a non-american company... not against a people.

Yeah... but isn't that a bass-akward jab against the people? Like their products aren't good enough for us?

Maybe they're not offended because they realize it's small potatoes compared to how racist people in their home countries can be? From my reading.. the Japanese especially are notoriously racist. They're just polite about it.

I digress..

[Msterbeau]

So what about the notion of laziness? Are people being lazy when they won't change speech patterns.... even though they may know what they're saying is offensive/annoying/etc?

[Paper Hearts]

It's one thing to say that you don't like most Japanese cars because they tend to have a bit less leg room or something; it's another thing to imply that you don't like Japanese cars because they are made by the inferior, rice eatting, Japanese.

[HipsterDufus]

honestly, while "rice-burner" is a derogatory term, it's kind of taken on a life of its own, kind of in the same way that saying something is "gay" might just mean "stupid". there was a time where everyone knew these were derogatory, but a lot teens/younger people just learned the phrase without the background meaning, and therefore may just need to be educated on the subject. as for the whole "oriental" vs. "asian" thing, i had an online asian friend who actually used to call things oriental, until her college4 professor told her it was insulting, and then she got offended every time she heard it. i'm sorry, but if someone has to tell you you should be offended, you're an idiot. (oh, shit - did i offend someone with that!?"

Good points. I've used the term before in the exact same context that TA explained. It's not because I hate Asians or their cars; I actually used it in a more endearing sense. <shrug> I suppose it's all contextual. Just like a white guy in "Blazing Saddles" using the "N-word" is more acceptable than using it with actual hateful intent.

[Msterbeau]

Good points. I've used the term before in the exact same context that TA explained. It's not because I hate Asians or their cars; I actually used it in a more endearing sense. <shrug> I suppose it's all contextual. Just like a white guy in "Blazing Saddles" using the "N-word" is more acceptable than using it with actual hateful intent.

Another good point. Context.

[Paper Hearts]

vomit.

[Msterbeau]

vomit.

[Homicidalheathen]

I think the term Rice burner is well used and excepted because we live in the motor city.

You don't hear it much out west and more people are excepting of people driving foriegn vehicles.....

[Paper Hearts]

Well, was this person using the term in a historical sense, in order to make a social commentary, like it only properly could be used in art, or were they simply referring to a Japanese car as a "rice burner", because they've accepted this racist term because lots of people they know use it and so they've spoken it with an undisguised lack of care for who it may offend, based on the the notion that they can never be insensitive simply because they use prejudiced remarks for unorthadox reasons?

[phee]

Gaf illustrates a good point in reference to his friends...

It may not offend people that you know, and are familiar with, but to post something like it on a board where anyone can read it, well.... it kind of shows a lack of good judgement.

[Paper Hearts]

^It's curious to use a blanket insult to talk about a culture that one respects. And it's more curious to assume that no one could find such a term unfavorable, or feel that it's an affront, or portrays an indignity towards them. It's just really bad taste.

[phee]

^It's curious to use a blanket insult to talk about a culture that one respects. And it's more curious to assume that no one could find such a term unfavorable, or feel that it's an affront, or portrays an indignity towards them. It's just really bad taste.

Yup

[Msterbeau]

Well, was this person using the term in a historical sense, in order to make a social commentary, like it only properly could be used in art, or were they simply referring to a Japanese car as a "rice burner", because they've accepted this racist term because lots of people they know use it and so they've spoken it with an undisguised lack of care for who it may offend, based on the the notion that they can never be insensitive simply because they use prejudiced remarks for unorthadox reasons?

I was messing with you... since you didn't direct your reply to any particular comment. :-)