The Draft

[Gaf The Horse With Tears]

Top Democrat: Bring back the draft

WASHINGTON (AP) -- Americans would have to sign up for a new military draft after turning 18 if the incoming chairman of the House Ways and Means Committee has his way.

New York Democratic Rep. Charles Rangel said Sunday he sees his idea as a way to deter politicians from launching wars. He believes a draft would bolster U.S. troop levels that are currently insufficient to cover potential future action in Iran, North Korea and Iraq.

"There's no question in my mind that this president and this administration would never have invaded Iraq, especially on the flimsy evidence that was presented to the Congress, if indeed we had a draft, and members of Congress and the administration thought that their kids from their communities would be placed in harm's way," Rangel said.

Rangel, a veteran of the Korean War who has unsuccessfully sponsored legislation on conscription in the past, said he will propose a measure early next year.

In 2003, he proposed a draft covering people age 18 to 26. This year, he offered a plan to mandate military service for men and women between age 18 and 42. It went nowhere in the Republican-led Congress.

Democrats will control the House and Senate come January because of their victories in the November 7 mid-term election.

At a time when some lawmakers are urging the military to send more troops to Iraq, "I don't see how anyone can support the war and not support the draft," said Rangel.

He also proposed a draft in January 2003, before the U.S. invasion of Iraq.

Sen. Lindsey Graham, a South Carolina Republican who is a colonel in the U.S. Air Force Standby Reserve, said he agreed that the U.S. does not have enough people in the military.

"I think we can do this with an all-voluntary service, all-voluntary Army, Air Force, Marine Corps and Navy. And if we can't, then we'll look for some other option," said Graham, who is assigned as a reserve judge to the Air Force Court of Criminal Appeals.

Rangel and Graham appeared on "Face the Nation" on CBS.

Polls show most Americans oppose a draft

[HipsterDufus]

Absolutely idiotic. Although it doesn't affect me anymore (luckily).

'Cause, y'know, bringing back Vietnam is a great idea. Sarcasm, btw.

[phee]

[kellygrrrrrl]

I'll go to jail before I go to war

[Rayne]

HA Unless they change the draft rules, I cannot be drafted. (Only male son of my father, land is involved.) Even if I had a male sibling to get me out of that loophole, I'd fight being drafted under the term "equal rights". Women still are not required to register for the draft.

But doesn't it say Women would be drafted too?

[Paper Hearts]

I sort of like Charles Rangel, but not necessarily on this issue.

-For whatever reason our government has not deemed it fit to commit more than One hundred, fifty thousand-ish of our about two million troops to this war and considering that this war has become impossible with that current number of resources involved, I suppose that a draft is one idea that some reasonably could arrive at. I've talked to some conservatives that suggest that we need invest more troops to this war, as well liberals, yet I've not witnessed anyone of that mindset standing in a long queue of alike others, at the various recruiter's offices: it is as if Americans don't mind the war until they are made to consider themselves directly involved in it.

And I hear all manor of excuses: I've relatives who've died in this war and many others, I support our troops but I have a successful life to live here, etceteras. Which lends no one any clout whatsoever in anyone's view, I'm sure. It's really laughable.

I suppose that we'll be militarily involved in Iraq in some capacity or another for years to come. And I suppose that whatever capacity which we assume need not be one of out-and-out war.

It does make a bit of sense that if we are to really commit to ridding Iraq's government of all opponents that we shall need more troops, in fact it is obvious. However, I would estimate that this bit from Rangel is more meant as a gut check for that minority still in favor of the idea of escalating this war. Essentially, I see this a tactic to draw more support for the idea of ending the war. And as is obvious in just this topic alone, those in favor of the war and the President, tend to go "Fuck no, not if it's me with a rifle." and that speaks volumes.

[HipsterDufus]

I'll go to jail before I go to war

I'll just amend that to say that I'll go to jail before I go to this war.

[HipsterDufus]

I'll amend that by saying you'll never go to jail or war because you'll never volunteer

I've actually considered joining the military many times over (even recently). I think the discipline that it would offer could add a welcome change into my life. However, because I'm married and own a house, it would just be too much of an upheaval.

[HipsterDufus]

Volunteering would be different for me because I know that I would not be on the front lines, given my college education and computer experience. If you get drafted instead of volunteering (at least, this is how it used to work), you're pretty much guaranteed front lines duty.

[Homicidalheathen]

Personally I think everyone physically able should pitch in when they are young and healthy....and do their part...which would require 4 yrs active service.

This way we always have enough troups...and no draft would be necessary.

Anyone else should be on permanent disabillity.

If we benefit from living here we should do our part.

And, that if you do your part you would get government medical for the rest of your life, and that medical benenfit would not suck.

Make me your leader!

[Rayne]

Personally I think everyone physically able should pitch in when they are young and healthy....and do their part...which would require 4 yrs active service.

I tried. I spent 4 years in Air Force ROTC preparing ... and they turned me down because of health issues.

[Gaf The Horse With Tears]

Paper.. I'm not sure where your coming form on one thing... I have as yet to see one person who is pro war give an opinion on this.. including myself.

[phee]

I do think it is ironic that most people were frightened that GOP/Bush would do this... and then... well...

[Gaf The Horse With Tears]

That was my reason for posting this really... People have been blaming the Draft scare on Bush and the Republicans for the last few years... and I keep pointing out that it's the Democrats that keep drafting the Bills.

[phee]

That was my reason for posting this really... People have been blaming the Draft scare on Bush and the Republicans for the last few years... and I keep pointing out that it's the Democrats that keep drafting the Bills.

Indeed

[Paper Hearts]

Paper.. I'm not sure where your coming form on one thing... I have as yet to see one person who is pro war give an opinion on this.. including myself.

I can't argue against what you've seen, but I perceive that you at least somewhat agree with me that a draft is not the best thing. I am almost certain that you wouldn't like Charles Rangel and I know you're not much in favor of this countries lead "liberal" party. When you put "here it comes" and " top Democrat: bring back the draft" I didn't assume you were making a great risk, but whether you were or not is not necessary for my point.

I would like to add (perhaps for someone other than yourself) that Charles Rangel has been "pro-draft" since almost the beginning of this war.

-If I am wrong, that this is not a tactic Rangel is using against the war, it would only further cement my attitude of opposition to the Democrats--they, like the Republicans only use issues for political reasons, their mock ethical debate of topics is only that and it's comical. As one might notice, when these people are actually in power their attitudes turn to what a "loss" in Iraq might mean towards the question of their being reelected.

As for myself, I would attend this war, if called on, even not supporting it, without regard to my present situation. Although saying so as someone against the war is much different than saying so as one who supports the war..and I have known many of those in favor who have not met even that level of cowardice.

It's just that I don't understand what the war supporters think they will gain from staying here and arguing with those against--I mean what do they want from me? All that needs be done is to visit a recruiter, I can't give people any more advice than that. It's ostensible that the military is asking more people to volunteer--how more can I advice those in favor of sustaining war than to direct them to the military? It seems that nothing short of enlistment really recommends many of these style people.

Many of our current troops have families and other lives as well, they might appreciate some relief in that area.

[BrassFusion]

This guy's a moron. If the dems try to force a draft, I'm staging a coup.

That said... How could anyone be "pro-war," in a general sense? War for fun and profit? War for land? War to squash the religious beliefs of others?

[Vampyro]

This is by far, the most sickening stinking pile of HORSE SHIT our government is trying to come up with... WTF?!?!

A draft means, I'm candidate number UNO. With 5 years prior service in the marines, on an honorable discharge, and still a young healthy 25 year old... they can still "draft" me and I can't do shit. This war is so completely idiotic too, and I really felt the democrats could see that... and they're trying for a draft?! I said something before how this country will become totally unglued if they issue a draft... Needless to say, it seems now that the democrats and republicans both are having their part in fucking this country to the point of a pink sock. The republicans set up all the peices against america, and now the democrats are in turn to finally push us past the end. This may sound crazy but really I got a strong feeling that if a draft is administered to up military numbers enough to continue attacking other countries in the middle east like iran... The majority of America is going to Revolt, and hard.

Head fer the hills ya'll!!!! If the gov't starts a draft, a major shit infested storm will unleash.

[Vampyro]

Personally I think everyone physically able should pitch in when they are young and healthy....and do their part...which would require 4 yrs active service.

This way we always have enough troups...and no draft would be necessary.

Anyone else should be on permanent disabillity.

If we benefit from living here we should do our part.

And, that if you do your part you would get government medical for the rest of your life, and that medical benenfit would not suck.

Make me your leader!

In some respects, I do agree to this but for the most part I can't say I do. I'd like it better if it was still an option you could choose NOT to do, however, I feel that the ones that choose to serve should have special perks after signing out. Like free medical, no matter what, programs that help them find good employment. Sorry but if I was hiring someone, I'd pick a military background over a college degree with 10 years exp. Service men have made great sacrifices in life, and It really pisses me off how most of americans are just too fucking selfish to notice this sacrifice.

I'm a homeless vet, I'll have a place soon, but I took care of myself, I have had absolutely NO help from VA, or anything in getting a job, or financhial help. And here goes another rant...

I'm sick and fucking tired of seing all these fat ass fucks in their SUV's with the "I support our troops" ribbon on the damn bumper... yet what do they really do to show their so called "support" for the men and women in the service, including the ones that are out. America is all talk and no show.

[Gaf The Horse With Tears]

Paper. to clear something up.

I will take credit for the topics title, but the headline I gave the link is directly from CNN's site. i felt no need to change it from what they wrote and further show my bias.

I would welcome mandatory national service for everyone. 2 years at least. In either a civilian serivce sector.. fireman, police or some such or the military. The choice of service type given to the person doing the serving.

I want people in the military that want to be there. Conscripts don't do as good a job as people that are willing.

Just so you know.. My duaghter came to me to get advise.. she was thinking of joining the miliarty (Air Force). I did not try to talk her out of it. I told her it was her choice and that I was proud she at least considered it. My two oldest sons have made it clear they will be joining the Army as soon as they graduate. My heart swelled with pride. Am I happy about it. No. I don't want my sons to die.... ever. But I wll accept thier bodys with pride if need be, knowing they died fighting for something they beleive in. Knowing they did thier best to make the world a better place and made the ultimate sacrifice to that end. I hope it does not come to that... bt if it does... I want it to be thier choice... not the luck of the draw.

and beleive me.. if they would take my old crippled ass.. I would be in Iraq right now.

[Hellion]

Either I'll have to get out of this nation,before I am forced to die for

the oil companies and the POS Bush administration.imo

[Paper Hearts]

Paper. to clear something up.

I will take credit for the topics title, but the headline I gave the link is directly from CNN's site. i felt no need to change it from what they wrote and further show my bias.

I would welcome mandatory national service for everyone. 2 years at least. In either a civilian serivce sector.. fireman, police or some such or the military. The choice of service type given to the person doing the serving.

I want people in the military that want to be there. Conscripts don't do as good a job as people that are willing.

Just so you know.. My duaghter came to me to get advise.. she was thinking of joining the miliarty (Air Force). I did not try to talk her out of it. I told her it was her choice and that I was proud she at least considered it. My two oldest sons have made it clear they will be joining the Army as soon as they graduate. My heart swelled with pride. Am I happy about it. No. I don't want my sons to die.... ever. But I wll accept thier bodys with pride if need be, knowing they died fighting for something they beleive in. Knowing they did thier best to make the world a better place and made the ultimate sacrifice to that end. I hope it does not come to that... bt if it does... I want it to be thier choice... not the luck of the draw.

and beleive me.. if they would take my old crippled ass.. I would be in Iraq right now.

Of course, I don't look down on you for this.

I wonder if anyone knows how many more troops we would need send to Iraq and or Afghanistan to make the difference people speak about when they speak about gaining clear victories in either area or if anyone knows that the size of our military could support that.

So far, for many troops, the rate of rotation has amounted to their leaving the war front only when the war is over which suggests that we perhaps cannot justify committing enough troops to mean anything significant towards "victory". It may also suggest that our government is perhaps of the notion that escalating the war would make this war that much more unpopular with the American people--and this later idea is actually what Rangel has been getting at in speaking for a draft since almost the beginning of fighting.

Whatever the case, our military has communicated a need for more volunteers but have not been answered with an adequate surge in enlistment. Which does say that two million or so troops are not enough.

Interesting is that this is the second time I've heard the age of forty-two listed by one of those most informed on the specifics of our military needs in Iraq. The first time I've heard this number mentioned it was said by an American General who supported escalation, citing that our current military has too many "forty-two year old grandmothers" as a reason that we need more people--which probably means we are somewhat dire in this area.

-I would estimate that if we don't have enough troops to complete whatever version of "victory" people talk about when they become glassy-eyed about "freedom on the march", and we're not able to persuade enough people to volunteer as evidently, we haven't been able...omitting that we should stay in Iraq forever in some stalemate (despite that we may at any route), what other than a draft do we really have to look to?

And where are our eighteen to forty-two year olds who think we need only commit enough military to be able to go door-to-door, every door in Iraq, to make this war seem over and good to the rest of humanity? -Especially those who are against a draft- As I've said, I've met these types and yet I've witnessed none of them going to get a rifle and helmet.

[Gaf The Horse With Tears]

I ask the same question... but normally the answer comes back to Monday Morning quaterbacks without spines.

[Paper Hearts]

I ask the same question... but normally the answer comes back to Monday Morning quaterbacks without spines.

Well, that's just it. I mean one can't be Rommel without a tank.

[Soulrev]

I'm pro-war so I'll post an opinion.

Draft? Eh. If it happens it happens. I have to agree with HH in saying that I think everyone should do their part. We should be like Sweden and require a couple years service from every able-bodied 18 year old male.

The only thing that pisses me off about a draft is this..

I struggled for a long time to get away from smoking pot so I could join the military. I finally did it and I'm signed up and leaving for basic in January. What pisses me off is if there was a draft, it wouldn't matter if I smoked pot and shot smack, they'd take me then, wouldn't they?

I'm just glad I signed up before the Dems got into their seats in Congress/Senate. Cuz that 40,000 dollar sign on bonus limit is going to disappear real soon I'm betting.

As far as going to Iraq, I'm probably going to volunteer to go there when I finish my training. I'll come back with a loaded bank account if I don't get my ass killed. And if I do, well, I won't have to worry about money anymore anyways. Either way it's a good deal.

-B