Christians Vs Christ Followers?

[phee]

The Christians don;t hide the fact that they think everyone else is wrong about how to worship God.

Didn't you just state above that Christians are discriminating about others with this statement?

[Gaf The Horse With Tears]

Yes? Whats your point? I didn't say it was right. Infact... I'm pretty sure I said it was wrong. My point is/was... Two wrongs do not make a right. The world is never going to get better when people act like this and come up with bullshit justifications like.. "They did it first". Grow a set... be different.. and let people be who they are. You are never going to convince anyone that you are somehow better than someone else when you act just like them.

[torn asunder]

As for me and Muslims... I have no problem with Muslims, never have. I do have problems with assholes who claim to be Muslim with bombs strapped around thier bodys going onto school buses and killing innocent children. People like that gave up thier rights the moment they started killing to make a point.

Nothing is ever going to get better when people act like this. Treating people badly and as less than human is never excusable or right. Discrimination is never right. Nothing is ever going to get better until everyone realizes that. You can think up all the craptastic reasonings you want to discriminate... your still wrong.

who are you to tell me i'm wrong, just because i disagree with you? you've no right to make that judgement. i'm right, because i feel i'm right - you're right because you feel you're right. telling me i'm wrong makes you judgemental, and in essence you're condemning me for my beliefs, which is something you claim to never do.

as for "assholes who claim to be Muslim", just because they're killing in the name of their religion now, doesn't make them any better/wordse than the x-tians in the crusades who killed people in the name of god... the only difference is the century they did/do it in. you call them assholes and condemn them for doing the same kinds of things x-tians did, but you won't let others use something from the past as a reference point, while you cansite the same behavior because it's happening now?? does anyone other than me see a problem with this attitude?

[phee]

Yes? Whats your point? I didn't say it was right. Infact... I'm pretty sure I said it was wrong. My point is/was... Two wrongs do not make a right. The world is never going to get better when people act like this and come up with bullshit justifications like.. "They did it first". Grow a set... be different.. and let people be who they are. You are never going to convince anyone that you are somehow better than someone else when you act just like them.

I agree

[torn asunder]

You are never going to convince anyone that you are somehow better than someone else when you act just like them.

as you sit there condemning others for not believing the way you do, and/or acting out in the world based on their beliefs...

[Gaf The Horse With Tears]

yeah, ok... I'm the bad guy. I'm the one discriminating. whatever.

[torn asunder]

yeah, ok... I'm the bad guy. I'm the one discriminating. whatever.

just pointing out that you'r doing the same thing they are - never meant you were alone in that...

[BrassFusion]

You know I hate to repeat myself, but Mark...

There were TWO CHRISTIANS in that commercial parody. One was showcased as "right," the other was showcased as "wrong," to put it in the harshest way possible.

It's really stupid that the one guy's like, "I'm a Christ-Follower, not a Christian," but that's like someone saying, "I'm not Christian, I'm Catholic." Or...

"I'm not Christian, I'm Mormon."

"I'm not Christian, I'm Pentecostal."

"I'm not Christian, I'm Lutheran."

Just... how oversensitive can you be, here? If it's not the secular humanists or the pagans or the gays or the immigration activists who are out to get you, it's fellow Christians who just missed the morality bullseye by less than an inch...

[Gaf The Horse With Tears]

who are you to tell me i'm wrong, just because i disagree with you? you've no right to make that judgement. i'm right, because i feel i'm right - you're right because you feel you're right. telling me i'm wrong makes you judgemental, and in essence you're condemning me for my beliefs, which is something you claim to never do.

as for "assholes who claim to be Muslim", just because they're killing in the name of their religion now, doesn't make them any better/wordse than the x-tians in the crusades who killed people in the name of god... the only difference is the century they did/do it in. you call them assholes and condemn them for doing the same kinds of things x-tians did, but you won't let others use something from the past as a reference point, while you cansite the same behavior because it's happening now?? does anyone other than me see a problem with this attitude?

On your first bit there... Discrimination is wrong. You can justify it in any way you like, it's still just as wrong. You can keep trying to throw it back in my face... twist my words to somehow make me the bad guy while your discriminating. Go for it. Yes, I judge people, I'm human. I do my best to never let my judgements of people influence how I treat them as people. I have to deal with people every day. Of every faith. They all get the same level of service. No matter the color of thier skin, no matter who they have sex with and no matter if or how they worship a god or gods. I don't discriminate but I do judge.. and only one of those two things is illegal.

On the second... Christians are not killing int he name of God now. Well, except a very few nut jobs that we all think of as nut jobs. Muslim extremism is damn near commonplace. But more to the point.. They are killing people now... as I type this. If you cant see how the actions of people long dead have less bearing on the world than the actions of people in the hear and now... I dont know what to say. I'm not sure how punishing a son for the sins of the father is justifiable. So, you cling to your bigotry... it makes you feel better I soppose. Don;t expect me to turn a blind eye to it. I don't hate white people for owning slaves. I don;t hate black people for selling those white people the slaves. I dont look down on Christians because 400 years ago some Christians forced my ancestors to convert. The Christians alive today had nothign to do with it and barely resemble the Christians of that time. I do look down on Islamic extremist that Kill to make a point... because they are doing it right now. They are the ones the commit the crimes so I blame them.

[torn asunder]

On your first bit there... Discrimination is wrong. You can justify it in any way you like, it's still just as wrong. You can keep trying to throw it back in my face... twist my words to somehow make me the bad guy while your discriminating. Go for it. Yes, I judge people, I'm human. I do my best to never let my judgements of people influence how I treat them as people. I have to deal with people every day. Of every faith. They all get the same level of service. No matter the color of thier skin, no matter who they have sex with and no matter if or how they worship a god or gods. I don't discriminate but I do judge.. and only one of those two things is illegal.

On the second... Christians are not killing int he name of God now. Well, except a very few nut jobs that we all think of as nut jobs. Muslim extremism is damn near commonplace. But more to the point.. They are killing people now... as I type this. If you cant see how the actions of people long dead have less bearing on the world than the actions of people in the hear and now... I dont know what to say. I'm not sure how punishing a son for the sins of the father is justifiable. So, you cling to your bigotry... it makes you feel better I soppose. Don;t expect me to turn a blind eye to it. I don't hate white people for owning slaves. I don;t hate black people for selling those white people the slaves. I dont look down on Christians because 400 years ago some Christians forced my ancestors to convert. The Christians alive today had nothign to do with it and barely resemble the Christians of that time. I do look down on Islamic extremist that Kill to make a point... because they are doing it right now. They are the ones the commit the crimes so I blame them.

i just have to say this before i continue... where in the fuck do you see me being bigoted? where have i posted hate, or condemnation of anyone in this thread? what possible justification do you have for calling me a bigot? (and i quote from your post)

"So, you cling to your bigotry... "

where the hell do you get off saying this? please explain...

now, if you can't understand how muslims killing people now, and x-tians killing people then is the same thing, i can't continue this conversation, because you apparently are unable to draw parallels, which leaves us unable to communicate on the same plane.

and this, i think, is the most telling of all, in this...

"I do look down on Islamic extremist that Kill to make a point... because they are doing it right now. They are the ones the commit the crimes so I blame them."

again, the only difference between them (muslims) and you (x-tians - not you specifically) is time frame. you're condemning them for the same reasons they condemn us. they are involved in a holy war, which is exactly what the crusades were. how you fail to see that is beyond me... (and no, i'm in no way saying they are right or justified in that behavior - i'm just making an obvious comparison)

[BrassFusion]

hehehe....

<semi-jack>

I believe the Bible specifically says something against Idol worship does it not?

If that is the case, then why do most forms of Christianity have a GIANT statue of Jesus in their place of worship? Why do Catholics pray to the Mother Mary? Why do they deify human beings so much?

The Bible states "thou shalt worship no man before me or bow before graven images or idols". Yet there's Jesus, hangin on the wall of the church! Mary is chillin in the corner with some candles.

</semi-jack>

<jack-on>

It says something about idol worship right alongside the part where it says that no man shall ever be worshiped as a god, and that any man who claims to be divine is a damn liar.

But those are just Jews, their laws don't apply to modern Christians.

Except for the line or two that alludes to homosexuality maybe being unclean. That part remains totally relevant.

<jack-off>

[AstralCrux]

Hmmm... Well I'm fine with it if Christians want to make fun of themselves. We all just get used to being picked on at some point in history, although the Jews did get the worse end of the stick with WW2. It's a cycle. The Muslim Jihad (sp) are currently taking their turn to pitch a fit.

However, the Christian vs. Christian thing is not new. Catholics and Protestants have been having at it for what about a hundred years or so? If not longer? We've just got some new expansions on the Christian concept for the older groups to poke fun at. Ya'll are arguing over something that is currently happening in Ireland only here it is with different types of Christian.

Personally, I think we need a hippie to walk around preaching peaceful protest, but I don't see people following that anytime soon. We like flashy and that my dears is not flashy!

Resume arguement, thank you.

[AstralCrux]

That could work.

[Gaf The Horse With Tears]

torn.. you are the one defending your right to practice discrimination and bigotry against Christians... not me. If you dont like being called out on that... stop doing it.

If you can't see the difference between what people did 400 years ago and what people are doing today... well.. you are right, we are on different planes. I do not beleive in punishing the son for the sins of the Father. Christians today do not act like they did 400years ago. So why punshish them as if they are? The Muslim extremists are acting that way.. they are killing innocents on a dialy basis. There is a difference.

maybe you can understand this... I dont condem people in South Carolina for owning slaves. None of them do... they did 100 years ago. Should I condem the people now for what people did back then?

[torn asunder]

torn.. you are the one defending your right to practice discrimination and bigotry against Christians... not me. If you dont like being called out on that... stop doing it.

If you can't see the difference between what people did 400 years ago and what people are doing today... well.. you are right, we are on different planes. I do not beleive in punishing the son for the sins of the Father. Christians today do not act like they did 400years ago. So why punshish them as if they are? The Muslim extremists are acting that way.. they are killing innocents on a dialy basis. There is a difference.

maybe you can understand this... I dont condem people in South Carolina for owning slaves. None of them do... they did 100 years ago. Should I condem the people now for what people did back then?

ok, i'm seriously asking - where am i defending my right to discriminate!? where have i discriminated? please quote, because all i remember doing is drawing comparisons between two situations. my whole point is, no one group is better/worse than another. how is that discrimination? i have no hatred/anger towards x-tians, or any group as a whole, because groups are made of individuals, and i don't make any kind of personal determination about anyone until having first-hand experience with said individual. i understand what you're saying about "x-tians aren't killing people today" (which i'll argue in the next paragraph) - just as i understand that in a few hundred years, it won't necessarily be muslims who are doing it - it could be anyone. and who is punishing x-tians? (or did you mean that the muslims were/are? i think i'm confused on that point...)

anyway, back to this x-tians vs. jesus-followers - how can anyone point fingers outside of their group, when it's their own group who is doing the condemnation? sort of like was mentioned earlier, the whole thing in ireland... i'm not well-educated on the topic, but weren't they x-tians killing x-tians? weren't they doing it in the name of their respective "religions"? how is that different than anything else we're discussing? this whole thing is just confusing me...

[Gaf The Horse With Tears]

Torn.. I think this is one we are going to have to wait until we can sit down and talk about it. I'm no writer but I am a talker.

[torn asunder]

Torn.. I think this is one we are going to have to wait until we can sit down and talk about it. I'm no writer but I am a talker.

yeah, you may be right... i think we're just not communicating effectively on this. we must be missing each others' point somehow. cool, i'll try to hit you up on yahoo or something one of these mornings...

[Fierce Critter]

hehehe....

<semi-jack>

I believe the Bible specifically says something against Idol worship does it not?

If that is the case, then why do most forms of Christianity have a GIANT statue of Jesus in their place of worship? Why do Catholics pray to the Mother Mary? Why do they deify human beings so much?

The Bible states "thou shalt worship no man before me or bow before graven images or idols". Yet there's Jesus, hangin on the wall of the church! Mary is chillin in the corner with some candles.

</semi-jack>

I only recently discovered there is a massive hatred of Catholics by the fundamental Christian community. I was not aware of this until recently, when I picked up some Chick Tracts for shits and giggles. (And don't anyone try to tell me it's not hatred.)

One of them has Mother Mary weeping for Catholics on earth because they are damning themselves to hell by worshipping her.

This actually bothered me. Not that it made me think I'm going to hell (I am, and always have been, a devotee of Mary). But that people can be so picayune as to so anally distinguish what is and isn't holy & right.

Back to my overall view of religion on the whole - that which is written by man is subject to the shortcomings, motives & interpretion of men.

And men suck.

/my rare threadjack

[BrassFusion]

You're right, FC... Chick doesn't represent a majority, lol. It's fucking insane.

http://www.chick.com/reading/tracts/0046/0046_01.asp

http://www.epsilonminus.com/darquedungeon/

[Steven]

Yep.. more anti-christian propoganda... from a church no less... because being a Christian is such a bad thing.

Dont bother telling me I should not be offened by it or try to somehow convince me that it's not anti-christian propoganda... and please, don't go into some long to explain how evil being a Christian is and the long history of bad things the church has done... I don't care. This is just another fine example amung many others, that show how it's ok to practice religious discrimination as long as it's against Christians.

Hey.

go back and watch it again and leave your defenses at the door when you press play.

seriously.

as a christian, I appreciated it.

thought it was thought provoking.

and rather transparent in a refreshing way.

The Body of beleivers in general, has problems.

I'm going to go out on a limb and say that most of the people who are part of the problem, were offended by that video.

[Steven]

However, the Christian vs. Christian thing is not new.

your right.

go back to the bible and you'll find it even there.

and you'll also find in in Pre Christ judaism - in the rift between Jews and Samaretins who worshipped the same god.

in essence you see it everywhere, wherever there are people.

[phee]

However, the Christian vs. Christian thing is not new.

your right.

go back to the bible and you'll find it even there.

and you'll also find in in Pre Christ judaism - in the rift between Jews and Samaretins who worshipped the same god.

in essence you see it everywhere, wherever there are people.

Correct

[Steven]

<jack-on>

It says something about idol worship right alongside the part where it says that no man shall ever be worshiped as a god, and that any man who claims to be divine is a damn liar.

But those are just Jews, their laws don't apply to modern Christians.

Except for the line or two that alludes to homosexuality maybe being unclean. That part remains totally relevant.

<jack-off>

Reply to JACK ON:

Study the manuscript and you'll see evidence of the Jews recognzing a tri-une nature to YHWH, for example looka t thow the text translates to a plural approach many times as Abraham was originally interacting with God, and notice how there are often three "angels" thrown intot he text as Abrahm, deals with God. Study the priophesies that the Jews were awaiting to be fullfilled, and you'll understand that the Messiah (whomever he was to be) was worthy of worship. Some Jews didint liek that - they wanted a military general instead. The jews of "the way" and now modern era christians, recognize Jesus Christ as God, the fullfillment of the messianic prophesies, therefore there is no contradiction for them. Or for me. By the way Brass or whomever why did god insist on this Idol Worship thingy? WHat was going on at the time that would cause "GOD" to make this rule? (I'm giving you an opening for your legalistic based argument)

As for the laws of the Jews not applying to Modern Christisna: another question to you -

why not? How does the mesianic provision address that? and if this large group of beleivers who's identity was founded in the law while they waitied on their messiah - why was there disharmony between the keepers of the lawa and this alleged Messiah when he finnally did show up? (I'm giving you openingumber two)

ANd the Homosexuality thing. I know that pisses you off Brass. But let's be real here, there are a WHOLE BUNCHA other issues brought up that still apply to modern christians right? You just threw that one in there cause it bugs. My only problem with this approach is that there are some people who will take what you say verbatim and never do their own homework.

That is all.

[BrassFusion]

I was sarcastically insulting hypocrisy, not targeting any specific biblical edicts or anything.

[pharoh]

Kill the infidals, Jyhad bitches!

*crickets chirp*

*Turns around and leaves*

lol