Do you think it's possible...

[soothsayer]

The word hate is not the issue here...or am I wrong? The intended topic of this discussion, I believe, is....Is it possible to have extremely conflicting emotions toward an individual person.

Hate is an emotion that is being discused here...or am I wrong? I simply gave my two cents. Did you find something wrong with my post? If so, please tell me.

[Marblez]

I see the question as more about the conflict as opposed to the semantics of the meaning of one word in the sentence. He uses hate as an extreme negative emotion. Whether one agrees or disagrees with his chosen verbiage it appears to affect the question little.

In my opinion, replace HATE with any of the following words (courtesy of Rogets): despise, detest, dislike, execrate, feel disgust for, hate, loathe, scorn, view with horror and the question remains very much the same.

[Brenda Starrr]

Hate is just easier to spell and usually the first word that comes to people's minds when it comes to the difference between the two.

[Daniel]

I see the question as more about the conflict as opposed to the semantics of the meaning of one word in the sentence.  He uses hate as an extreme negative emotion. Whether one agrees or disagrees with his chosen verbiage it appears to affect the question little.

In my opinion, replace HATE with any of the following words (courtesy of Rogets): despise, detest, dislike, execrate, feel disgust for, hate, loathe, scorn, view with horror and the question remains very much the same.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

While words are similar, they do not mean the same thing. I dislike eating carrots, but it is hardly the same thing as loathing a person. Hate is an intense emotion, like love. If you want to have a conversation specifically about how hate and love relate to one another, you need to discuss what it means to do both, and what sort of context you are using them in. Are you detesting carrots, or loathing a person? Do you like potatos or adore your lover? Sometimes words are not as simple as the dictionary makes them out to be. This is why we have semantics, philosophy and poetry. Hate and love happen to be two of the more complicated words and emotions that exist. I don't see why anyone would think this isn't a relevent angle to discuss.

In fact, in philosophy or debate, outlining your relevent terms is standard practice. Casual conversation doesn't need to be as rigid, but if discussing the terms becomes part of the exchange, it should be encouraged for clarity.

[The_Dark]

I have issues with people who say that can't hate or that there is no reason to hate. Hate is a natural human emotion. Your human... get off your high horse. You can deny your emotions and pretend they don't exist all you want. Your still human, you still feel and hate is very much an option for you. Perhaps you havn't cared enough about anything to hate it yet.. If thats the case, I'm sorry... Whats it like to not care about anything? Thats the key.. what love and hate have in common. You have to care to love or hate. I loathe cooked carrots. I don't care if I ever see them again let alone have to eat them. I wont leave the table if they are put on it though. I hate my ex-wife. I wouldn't eat a meal with her if it would save my life.

[torn asunder]

I have issues with people who say that can't hate or that there is no reason to hate. Hate is a natural human emotion. Your human... get off your high horse. You can deny your emotions and pretend they don't exist all you want. Your still human, you still feel and hate is very much an option for you. Perhaps you havn't cared enough about anything to hate it yet.. If thats the case, I'm sorry... Whats it like to not care about anything?

have all the issues you want - that's just it, it's your issue... i think the reason you don't believe it is because you can't see it in your life, which i can completely understand, but to claim that someone/everyone must hate is just ignorant. is it possible for some people to not love/be able to love? i'm sure it is. so why not the same for hate? i can understand getting angry, and i occasionally do, but it's my processing of an incident that makes me mad. people will do what they will, and you have no control over that - what you can control is your reaction. anger is an emotion, and true, it will occur - hate is one's projection of anger (or some other negative emotion) at another, which i believe can be completely controlled, and is entirely a choice.

tell you what - give me any reason you want that you consider to be a valid reason to hate someone, and i'll explain why i don't consider it valid. it might be interesting to see each others' viewpoint on this!

as for "not caring enough about something to hate it", i don't understand - why would you hate something you love? maybe you could explain this to me...

[Daniel]

I have to agree with torn asunder. Hate is not necessary. Sure, it is natural and human, but with discipline, you can control your emotions. You are ultimately responsible for them. If it is ok by you to hate things, by all means procede along with that course of action. This isn't necessarily the path everyone is on. Personally, I can't bring myself to hate or loath anything, and find myself incapable of holding grudges for very long. I can certainly be angry or irritated at things, but I do not "hate" the object of my anger.

[The_Dark]

You both assume anger is involved in the hate. Not all hate is based in anger.

Careing is not loving. To Care is a degree of emotion felt toward something. You have to care to love, you have to care to hate, you have to care to be hurt. Hate is just dislike at it's purest.

I see your points. Indifferance counts and is really the opposite of careing.

[Fierce Critter]

Far be it for me to agree with Dark on much... :

But I'm afraid I had a similar, if less confrontational reaction to your post, TA.

Not to derail the thread, but it goes beyond just whether you feel hate or not. You've mentioned similar non-reactions before, such as having no reaction to things like derision, mockery, etc. - that "it's all in how you take things".

I'm sorry, and I don't mean to come off as cold or like I'm attacking you, but it just seems so... robotic.

I can't help wonder if this is all just being repressed in you. And for the most part, what I know of the results of repression isn't real pleasant in the long run.

Feeling unhappy, or hateful, or sad, or other negative things of the sort isn't real pleasant. But it's part of being human. It's what makes the yin/yang of our make-up work.

[Onyx]

This is one of the most interesting discussions I've read.

If it is possible to control emotion and stop feeling hate, is it also possible to control emotion and stop feeling love for someone who doesn't love you back?

Isn't it more that you control what you do about your emotions? Love and hate can sometimes be so overpowering I can't imagine any way to just stop feeling.

[Daniel]

Most people say passion is giving into your emotions. I think passion is being in charge of your emotions. You should encourage yourself to feel, but really feel what you need to. For me, there isn't a need to hate, so I don't. I don't even feel compelled to do so. If you think that is me repressing hatred, you live in a little too self-centric world. If you can't relate, don't jump to false conclusions.

I do not equate hate with anger. Like I said, I certainly feel anger and frustrations. Hate I do not feel. I experience certain levels of "dislike" but never "the most extreme dislike". And never anything with any permanence. Even when angered or frustrated, I move past that very quickly if it isn't serving me well. I experience all forms of "bad emotions", hate just isn't one of them. And I have every reason to hate a number of people, if I were so inclined to.

But, back to what you are asking Onyx... emotions are just chemicals. With discipline and serious circumstances, you will only feel what you need to feel. With enough practice and experience, you just... do it. I could probably give a course on this. it is very complicated and is a life style reform sort of thing, and not really fit for this post. It isn't "stopping feeling", it is losing the baggage. You feel MORE this way. You feel more distinctly, and more alive. You are more spontanious and aware. I have not always been this way, so can tell you what it is like before and after. I think a lot of popular psychology damages people.

And yes, you can stop loving someone if you don't want to love them. I love very, very powerfully, as anyone who knows me can attest to. But, if someone betrays me, I can write them out of my life immediately. I just move on. I don't hate them. I don't hold grudges against them. I just move on. I focus my love and attention elsewhere. It isn't a big deal, and making it such is what makes it difficult to move on. That doesn't mean you can't hurt from it, but be mindful of your emotions and don't let them control you.

[Marblez]

I still feel that this thread has taken a permanent tangent. With no apparent complaint from the thread owner, I will no longer fight it.

I actually agree 100% with Torn Asunder. I can tell you in full honesty that I have NEVER hated anyone. Sure I had feelings very closely resembling that of hatred, but if you asked me in that time even at the height of anger toward a person "Do you really "hate" them? The answer would be a definitive "No". I am knowledgeable enough of my own feelings and inability to maintain a grudge to know that it is not hate.

My mother always told me that to hate someone is the same as wishing them dead, if you could feel comfortable knowing that you caused this person to not wake again, then it is truly hate. If it is anything less, then it is a strong dislike. Even when I dislike someone, I wil always wish the best for them.

My ex-husband - when I felt the most anger toward him, I was always cordial and wanted the best for him. An ex-boyfriend that had wronged me terribly, I could not hate him for it, although I was extremely angry - it would be a horrible thing if any harm would come to him. The closest to hate I have ever been was with a female acquaintance, I would literally get ill when in her prescence. I left the room/building where we were because I knew that if I was to spend another moment with her that I would assault her or I would throw up. Even at that moment although the word hate may have even escaped my lips - it was not truly hatred. That was a very negative feeling and I very strongly disliked her, but would I want harm to come to her? Would I relish any thought of harm to her? No.

Perhaps I am lucky to never have hated anyone. Perhaps it is those that have angered me that are lucky, I don't know. Perhaps if someone were to damage my son that would be the ultimate test, one that I do not look forward to.

http://www.anabaptists.org/places/reaching/theyhate.html[/urlS]]The Bible says "Love your enemies, bless them that curse you, do good to them that hate you, and pray for them which despitefully use you, and persecute you" (Matthew 5:44).

Because of this Scripture and others, we know that it is sin for a Christian to hate others or to mistreat them. Hate is never right, no matter how wrong the other person is.

[torn asunder]

if i were emotionally repressed, i might agree with thedark and fierce - however, i'm not... personally, i haven't been depressed or severely negative in several months, and with the understanding i have now, i don't believe that i ever will be again. regarding hate, there are two main reasons, in my mind, to hate - 1) being upset that a certain event didn't turn out like you expected, or 2) being upset that a certain person/persons didn't act/treat you/others in a manner you expected/think they should have. if you'll notice, each of these is based on your interpretation of things, your expectations... it is having an attachment to a certain outcome that makes a person upset, nothing more...

to address thedark's statement about hate not necessarily being related to anger, i can only say this - hate is only one person's judgement about a particular situation/person, based entirely on that person's values, opinions, and beliefs - it is entierly based on opinion, and as such, it is also entirely controllable. remember, when you judge another, you don't define them, you define yourself... you basically are stating "i don't like/agree with that, i think this person is wrong, and i'm going to hold on to/harbor ill will/bad thoughts for/of them, because they acted in a way that was inconsistent with my beliefs..." all emotion, all opinion, all judgement, comes first from thought, and you can control those thoughts... hatred, resentment, justice, revenge, are all things that are based in an individuals sense, their opinion, of right and wrong. another thing to remember is that forgiveness isn't for them, it's for you.

well, as it's st. patty's day, and i've had a few, and i fear i've been rambling, i will stop here - i'll visit this thread tomorrow, and make sure that my words still make sense...

[JaneDead]

" if you could feel comfortable knowing that you caused this person to not wake again, then it is truly hate. If it is anything less, then it is a strong dislike. Even when I dislike someone, I wil always wish the best for them. "

this is how i feel. i really have never hated anyone. i don't think it is wrong to hate, i just don't actually hate. not people individually anyways.

i might say i "hate" child molesters, or i hate bigots, or i hate when people mistreat other people - but that is just me hating the actions of any various people that i might not even know. not the actual people themselves. but again i don't think it is impossible to hate. or that hate is wrong. i just don't know how to feel actual hate.

more likely when i dislike someone so strongly i will always feel a pang of something else for them too. like maybe pity, that they are so stupid. or hurt, because they did something i feel was wrong against me or someone i love. or a disconnection from them because i just can't relate to where they are coming from.

i definately don't like everyone i meet. and there are some people i can not stand to be in the same room with - but i really do not hate them. i just wish to never have to see them.

[Brenda Starrr]

While I've never actually hated anyone, I know that it exists in others. I may severely dislike my ex husband or the girl that broke my nose in high school, I could never hate them because there are reasons why they are the way they are. Things that they may not be able to control and are within their actual emotional/mental makeup. I don't ever want to be hated, and I don't hate. That being said, my disdain for certain people can be pretty high up there. As a Christian, it's not in me to actually hate, although I do believe that it's possible for others to do so. I've never even said that I hate anyone. Instead, I've always said that I don't like them at the moment.

[ManicQueen]

Definitely :whistling:

B~

[Head Wreck]

i've hated someone i've loved

as an ex put it when i was angry at said person "you can only truly hate something you love"

wish i'd have listned to mell and burried the hatchet there and then

who knows. maybe i wouldnt have been such an asshole when she appologised to me every time she saw me for 2 months

[Fierce Critter]

I hesitate to bring this point up, as it really is taking the thread derailment further away from the "can you love/hate someone at the same time" question.

In the direction of feeling hate period, take away the human target and I bet more people would find themselves realizing they are capable of hating SOMETHING.

For instance, cancer. I lost my brother to cancer and when I think of the disease and the havoc it wreaks on people's lives, I feel utter, deep hatred. You might be thinking, "what good is it to hate cancer? That doesn't make it go away". Well, no it doesn't. But maybe that hatred could be a means to a good end. It might encourage me (or another affected person) to decide to go into cancer research and be THAT person who comes up with a cure. It might cause another person to donate money for research that finds a cure. etc.

Similarly, you can hate a system that doesn't allow for decent medical care for people without a ton of money or decent healthcare programs. Again, the same example with possible positive results of feeling that hate. Perhaps a person would so hate that system that they would go into politics, get elected and make a change that would enable more people to be treated before becoming terminal. etc.

And back to the hating another person topic. Again, if you feel hate for someone, it can lead to a change in your own life. A refusal to settle for something that is negative in your life perhaps. And possibly what starts out as genuine hate may eventually develop into something different. Often, in myself, I find that to be pity. I may initially hate someone for something they have done for me. But when I see how pathetic they are, how they lie to themselves and those around them, then that hate changes into a head-shaking pity for how pathetic that person really is.

I would MUCH rather be hated than pitied.

Hate does not necessarily lead to a negative result. Often it can be the impetus to an improvement in a situation.

[Daniel]

I'm not arguing that people can't experience hatred if they want to. I am saying I personally have better ways to deal with things in my life. Your previous reply seemed to indicate you feel this is impossible for people to do.

Personally, it isn't necessary for me to hate something in order to be wise enough to find impetus to change a situation I do not agree with.

[Fierce Critter]

By the way, this isn't the religion forum. But I have to roll my eyes at the "being Christian doesn't allow me to feel hate" piety.

May be true for people particular to this discussion, and if so, I apologize and feel free to exclude yourself from the kind of example I'm about to give.

But the world is rife with examples of how the "hate the sin, love the sinner" hypocrisy allows for plenty of examples of just how deeply Christians feel hate for others. Just one pleasant example: GodHatesFags.com, the former home of the "Matthew Shepherd has been in Hell for _____ days" counter.

I'm a lot more able to buy into the argument, "I don't feel hate because I, as a person, have chosen to live beyond hate" than "I don't feel hate 'cause I'm a Christian and the Bible tells me not to."

[torn asunder]

I hesitate to bring this point up, as it really is taking the thread derailment further away from the "can you love/hate someone at the same time" question.

i honestly see no thread derailment here - strictly speaking, the question only requires a "yes/no" reply, but that would make for a very dull thread! it's natural to discuss the reasons for the yes/no answer, which seems to be precisely what's going on. : i have more to write, but it'll have to be tonight, as i'm still at work...

[Onyx]

i honestly see no thread derailment here - strictly speaking, the question only requires a "yes/no" reply, but that would make for a very dull thread! it's natural to discuss the reasons for the yes/no answer, which seems to be precisely what's going on.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

It seems to me at times we are too oversensitive about thread derailment. Every one of the comments and discussions here seem very relevant to me also.

Very much enjoying reading this thread!

[Daniel]

It seems to me at times we are too oversensitive about thread derailment.  Every one of the comments and discussions here seem very relevant to me also. 

Very much enjoying reading this thread!

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Speaking of things that annoy me... don't get me started on the sensitivity to thread derailment around here. Drives me batty! =)

[Fierce Critter]

I personally enjoy the tangents some of these more thoughtful threads take.

I guess I worry about others getting ticked off about it, though.

Hey - don't be HATIN' on the tangent pirates, ya'll!!! :

[Daniel]

By the way, this isn't the religion forum. But I have to roll my eyes at the "being Christian doesn't allow me to feel hate" piety.

May be true for people particular to this discussion, and if so, I apologize and feel free to exclude yourself from the kind of example I'm about to give.

But the world is rife with examples of how the "hate the sin, love the sinner" hypocrisy allows for plenty of examples of just how deeply Christians feel hate for others. Just one pleasant example: GodHatesFags.com, the former home of the "Matthew Shepherd has been in Hell for _____ days" counter.

I'm a lot more able to buy into the argument, "I don't feel hate because I, as a person, have chosen to live beyond hate" than "I don't feel hate 'cause I'm a Christian and the Bible tells me not to."

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I agree, but have been avoiding bringing religion into this, despite other people introducing it. Don't get me started. =) I could point out many New Testament verses that show Jesus encouraging hateful values. And shit... what could be more hateful than the crap that went on in the Old Testament (which Jesus gave his stamp of approval on, btw)? But! I don't want to go there. Not in this thread, anyway. =)