Thoughtcrime

[Scary Guy]

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/conte...7041801584.html

[phee]

This frightens me

[sinmantyx]

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/conte...7041801584.html

I wouldn't worry too much about it. It's already pretty illegal to make threats to other people. Unless what he actually said satisfied particular criteria (which it doesn't seem like it did), the charges will be dropped in no time. Let's hope he doesn't have a hair up his butt about it and he just realizes that it was "too soon".

People are on edge.

Let's see how this plays out before screaming "big brother" or claiming we were always at war with Oceania.

[Marblez]

Sometimes people just need to know when NOT to be an asshole.

[BrassFusion]

No one should ever be arrested for just being an asshole. Fucking cops who don't know how to just do their jobs...

[phee]

Exactly... should he maybe have not said it? Of course.... should he go to jail? Fuck no!!!

[Marblez]

Karson, of Denver, was arrested Tuesday on a misdemeanor charge of interfering with staff, faculty or students of an education institution.

So they arrest him, check him out and determine that he is not a real threat. It does not say that he was convicted of anything.

[BrassFusion]

it would kinda burn my ass to get arrested every other day on bullshit charges that keep getting dropped. i hear that happened a lot in the fifties and sixties.

[Marblez]

Yeah, that would suck. but if you put yourself in a position that you would be arrested every other day...well you are probably doing something you shouldn't be doing anyway - or you might want to change your surroundings.

[BrassFusion]

It was a hypothetical situation. The gist of it is, if i'm doing something that's protected by the constitution and NOT illegal despite its assholishness, I should not be arrested. Ever. Not once, not once a year, not every other day, never.

I passed eighth grade government class, and I only expect the same from our law enforcement.

The sort of attitude that says, "change your behavior to fit the law (or in this case, someone else's values that were NOT law)" is the one that precedes a dystopia like ones I'm sure you've read about. Part of our job as citizens is to make sure our laws reflect our values (in the case of America, liberty is a value of the utmost importance), and to ENFORCE those laws. Turning a blind eye to asshole cops making arrests on bullshit charges is shirking one's civic responsibility.

[Marblez]

Law abiding citizens should not be detained by federal agents for hours at an airport just because they "look" like a terrorist. This is the world we live in.

[sass_in_the_pants]

Brass, you don't actually think that people are going to start getting arrested every other day on trumped up charges, do you? The police have better shit to do with their time too than waste it on dumb kids who can't keep their mouths shut.

[BrassFusion]

Law abiding citizens should not be detained by federal agents for hours at an airport just because they "look" like a terrorist. This is the world we live in.

So what's the plan to change that shitty aspect? Just live with it and hope it doesn't get worse?

Brass, you don't actually think that people are going to start getting arrested every other day on trumped up charges, do you? The police have better shit to do with their time too than waste it on dumb kids who can't keep their mouths shut.

Maybe... because obviously in this case they DIDN'T have anything better to do. There's no telling how much the rights we take for granted could erode if we don't remain vigilant to this shit.

[sinmantyx]

*sigh*

Although the charges seem a bit much...think about this for a little bit before rushing to his rescue.

Whatever he said (we don't know everything he said) and however he said it (we were not there); was disturbing enough that HIS CLASSMATES DIDN'T WANT TO BE IN THE SAME ROOM WITH HIM OUT OF FEAR.

If some asshole student was threatening the rest of my class: I may not charge him with anything as far as state or federal law is concerned, but he certainly would be violating the student code of conduct and I would want him the hell out of my class.

Now: was what he said = a threat? We don't know. As I said, we don't have enough information. We're just jumping to conclusions based on our own fears and generalizations.

If I were the instructor in this case and I deemed the behavior of one of my students as being disruptive, threatening and impinging on the other students' peace of mind: I certainly wouldn't want to be second-guessed by a bunch of people assuming I was a 1984 style fascist.

I tend to assume that authorities don't just charge people for shits. If they are being excessive, it will most likely blow over. Dealing with situations like this (as someone with authority and responsibility for other people) is a pain in the ass.

I hate to bring this to a full-circle debate: but do you also think Cho's stalking behavior was also somehow protected by the Bill of Rights?

Freedom of Speech is NOT absolute; and doesn't mean you have a right to be an asshole or to be stupid. There are responsibilities tacked onto those rights: and one of those responsibilities is not to interfere with your college class by scaring the piss out of everyone.

[BrassFusion]

I don't think anyone's arguing that the prof had no right to kick him out of the class (or even try to get him expelled), but... arrested? That's a whole nother ball of wax.

A University of Colorado student pleaded not guilty Wednesday to making comments that classmates deemed sympathetic toward the gunman blamed for killing 32 students and himself at Virginia Tech, authorities said.

During a class discussion Tuesday of Monday's massacre at Virginia Tech, Max Karson "made comments about understanding how someone could kill 32 people," university police Cmdr. Brad Wiesley said.

If he was charged for threatening violence, it would've been mentioned in the article. It said his misdemeanor charge was "interfering" with the educational institution, et al. I'm not sure I like the wording of that. At all.

[sinmantyx]

I don't think anyone's arguing that the prof had no right to kick him out of the class (or even try to get him expelled), but... arrested? That's a whole nother ball of wax.

If he was charged for threatening violence, it would've been mentioned in the article. It said his misdemeanor charge was "interfering" with the educational institution, et al. I'm not sure I like the wording of that. At all.

"Several witnesses told investigators Karson, who turns 22 on Thursday, said he was "angry about all kinds of things from the fluorescent light bulbs to the unpainted walls, and it made him angry enough to kill people," according to a police report. Witnesses "said they were afraid of him and afraid to come to class with him," Wiesley said."

In order to be charged with threatening someone, there is various criteria that needs to be fulfilled. It's actually very difficult to legally do that (as it probably should be). For example, the guy that came into the store and threatened to "break my jaw" and "kill my faggot boyfriend" was charged with disorderly conduct. To actually charge him with assault (the verbal kind) I supposed he would have had to be more specific or something. That guy wasn't arrested -- he was simply charged -- leaving me working alone until 6 in the morning frightened that he was going to come back and cause trouble; jumping with anxiety every time the door opened. (Maybe my experiences are coloring my perception of this whole thing.)

If this guy was arrested -- I think it would have been mentioned in the article as well. He was charged with a misdemeanor. That does not mean that he was arrested or detained in any way.

We have no idea if they are going to convict him or what punishment they may met out. They have a law against interfering with the educational institution (probably a reaction policy due to the fact that state colleges can be considered public land: so Brother Jed screaming at the top of his lungs, making it so you can't conduct class is completely legal without such an ordinance.) and the result of his actions certainly did result in interference. Maybe it will set him back $75 or something; in some sort of plea bargain to avoid a circus-like jury trial.

PS: Actually, what I would suggest is to bargain with him that the charges will be dropped if he formally apologizes to his class, not for the content of what he said, but for frightening them, with the reassurance that he has no plans or inclination to actually harm anyone.

[Marblez]

I don't think anyone's arguing that the prof had no right to kick him out of the class (or even try to get him expelled), but... arrested? That's a whole nother ball of wax.

If he was charged for threatening violence, it would've been mentioned in the article. It said his misdemeanor charge was "interfering" with the educational institution, et al. I'm not sure I like the wording of that. At all.

Kick him out of class? Get him expelled? I am thinking that these are MUCH more harmful to him and his rights. If he were a nutcase on the edge...now you have expelled him from the school that he worked years to get into, went to class, felt mistreated and now is disgraced even further, how could he now be accepted by another school.... that's a nice way to piss him off even more.

Sure it is not good to be arrested, but he goes in, says "hey, i really didn't mean thos things, honest". The police shrinks determine him to not be a threat and he goes back to class a little worse for wear. Only this time he thinks twice before freaking out his classmates.

[sinmantyx]

OOPS!

I didn't actually read the title. So he WAS arrested.

Wow.

That article really doesn't give a lot of information about how everything went down. I mean: WHEN was he arrested? Is he actually in jail right now? Was bail set? Has he been allowed to come back to class?

I do agree with being vigilant. There just isn't enough information there to get my civil liberties hard-on gut reaction at this point.

[Marblez]

Here is some more information on this incident. The guy was just being an asshole... his usual MO. Let the charges stand. Similar to inciting a riot...he incited fear into his classmates who were already at a very troubled emotional point. Society (with some legal system help) and maybe a bunkmate named bubba can help this guy learn a badly needed lesson.

[Marblez]

Oops, heres the link.

[Marblez]

Oops, heres the link.

[Steven]

Here is some more information on this incident. The guy was just being an asshole... his usual MO. Let the charges stand. Similar to inciting a riot...he incited fear into his classmates who were already at a very troubled emotional point. Society (with some legal system help) and maybe a bunkmate named bubba can help this guy learn a badly needed lesson.

[BrassFusion]

So the lesson he needs to learn is to have the same sense of humor as everybody else, and he will learn that lesson through repeated anal rape? Harsh.

[sinmantyx]

So the lesson he needs to learn is to have the same sense of humor as everybody else, and he will learn that lesson through repeated anal rape? Harsh.

Yeah, not quite the lesson in empathy that I would propose. I'm certainly of like mind with the blogger.

PS: However, I will say that "first amendment champion or fucktard" is a false dichotomy.

[sass_in_the_pants]

I like the word 'fucktard'

That is all.