Thoughtcrime

[Steven]

So the lesson he needs to learn is to have the same sense of humor as everybody else, and he will learn that lesson through repeated anal rape? Harsh.

perhaps the lesson needing to be learned is tha there are consequences for personal decisions that affect the group as a whole.

we do it in here dont we? if someone carries on too far and continues to disregard certain societal boundries that thread gets locked, that person gets shunned, possibly even banned.

simply because they are introducing (willfully) dischord into the harmonius homogonized single mindset that is DGN (I jest I pun I kid) and we then rally against this interloper for rocking our collective world.

Tina isint saying what your saying shes saying Erin.

[Marblez]

perhaps the lesson needing to be learned is tha there are consequences for personal decisions that affect the group as a whole.

[Steven]

De Nada

[BrassFusion]

perhaps the lesson needing to be learned is tha there are consequences for personal decisions that affect the group as a whole.

we do it in here dont we? if someone carries on too far and continues to disregard certain societal boundries that thread gets locked, that person gets shunned, possibly even banned.

simply because they are introducing (willfully) dischord into the harmonius homogonized single mindset that is DGN (I jest I pun I kid) and we then rally against this interloper for rocking our collective world.

Tina isint saying what your saying shes saying Erin.

Those consequences are purely social and are NOT included in the laws of the land. If you feel the constitution should be amended to restrict freedom of speech and assembly, either write your congressman or run for office yourself and put forth a bill to amend it. That's how the government works, paco, cuz right now, what that kid did is protected by our constitution.

As for DGN, none of us have the right to arrest or fine any other members for acting like jerks. There's no way to translate this to the activities of an irresponsible government.

[Steven]

Those consequences are purely social and are NOT included in the laws of the land. If you feel the constitution should be amended to restrict freedom of speech and assembly, either write your congressman or run for office yourself and put forth a bill to amend it. That's how the government works, paco, cuz right now, what that kid did is protected by our constitution.

As for DGN, none of us have the right to arrest or fine any other members for acting like jerks. There's no way to translate this to the activities of an irresponsible government.

first, dont call me Paco. I'm a far cry from Paco and I allready know you dig me.

next - then you'd better include laws like inciting a riot - its just words, just freedom of speech.

what that kid did was stupid. and it was probably intended to cause harm. we sue people for slander for similar reasons, because spoken words or printed material were inteded to cause harm - and the plaintiff would argue that harm was caused and therefore you better pay me. Again I sincerely doubt Tina wants him butt raped. And you of all people Brass my Paco calling friend, should be able to appreciate s dash of sarcasm.

The DGN thing was made to prove a point. that we like to hold people responsible for their actions if affects a group. That kid got shaken down. Maybe it was a little extreme, but his butthole is intact and he's been given something to think about and he was a dumb ass so I really dont feel sorry for him.

I need a sandwich.

[TygerLili]

The details of the arrest are pretty vague. Maybe they just detained him for questioning first and he said or did something that led to him being arrested, such a threatening an officer.

Personally I'd say he needs better parenting, a shrink and an ettiquite coach.

[Marblez]

The details of the arrest are pretty vague. Maybe they just detained him for questioning first and he said or did something that led to him being arrested, such a threatening an officer.

Personally I'd say he needs better parenting, a shrink and an ettiquite coach.

He was arrested, the judge set $1000 bond which his father (who supports him) will have to pay. The judge who set the bond is fully knowledgeable, I am sure, of our constitutional right to freedom of speech and felt that there was sufficient cause to continue with the case and institute a larger bond than requested by the defense.

[Marblez]

I wonder if the prosecution will be using "clear and present danger" as a way to overrule the freedom of speech defense?

[Scary Guy]

Wow, ok, so most of the things I was going to say and argue Brass already has, but I still feel I can add to this a bit.

Sometimes people just need to know when NOT to be an asshole.

Apparently I'm not that smart as Steven pointed out, and I shouldn't be punished for that, nor should anyone else for that matter. I say crazy shit all day long, and so do many others on the street. People are allowed to have different ideals and voice them out loud. Just because others disagree with them does not make it a bad thing, even if those "others" happen to be the majority.

“If all mankind minus one, were of one opinion, and only one person were of the contrary opinion, mankind would be no more justified in silencing that one person, than he, if he had the power, would be justified in silencing mankind.” — John Stuart Mill

Yeah, that would suck. but if you put yourself in a position that you would be arrested every other day...well you are probably doing something you shouldn't be doing anyway - or you might want to change your surroundings.

That's the other thing, what if I don't want to change my surroundings. I like my surroundings just fine. Everyone on my block hates me pretty much since I got my hearse. Before they couldn't care less because they didn't see me, but now every time they walk out they get to stare at my preferred method of transportation. This does not give them the right to vote me off the block.

Sure it is not good to be arrested, but he goes in, says "hey, i really didn't mean thos things, honest". The police shrinks determine him to not be a threat and he goes back to class a little worse for wear. Only this time he thinks twice before freaking out his classmates.

He meant them, and I agree with him (so arrest me fuckers). He didn't say he would, he just said he could see the gunman's point of view, which I can see too. This doesn't make me crazy or in need of therapy, it just makes me sympathetic to his plight. I can understand wanting to take a gun and start taking out everything within range that has a heartbeat. The fact that I don't makes me sane (well more so than him anyhow).

So the lesson he needs to learn is to have the same sense of humor as everybody else, and he will learn that lesson through repeated anal rape? Harsh.

Yes, CONFORM AND SUBMIT OR FALL AT THE HANDS OF BUBBA.

He was arrested, the judge set $1000 bond which his father (who supports him) will have to pay. The judge who set the bond is fully knowledgeable, I am sure, of our constitutional right to freedom of speech and felt that there was sufficient cause to continue with the case and institute a larger bond than requested by the defense.

The judge set that amount because the government likes money. They shouldn't have to pay anything, THIS SHOULDN'T EVEN BE HAPPENING!

I wonder if the prosecution will be using "clear and present danger" as a way to overrule the freedom of speech defense?

If I was there I wouldn't have seen any danger, because no danger existed, ever. The only problem is that people are scared sheep.

edited to say: I love me my first amendment, and I'll shoot every motherfucker I see before I let them take that away.

[BrassFusion]

He was arrested, the judge set $1000 bond which his father (who supports him) will have to pay. The judge who set the bond is fully knowledgeable, I am sure, of our constitutional right to freedom of speech and felt that there was sufficient cause to continue with the case and institute a larger bond than requested by the defense.

God damn but you are trusting.

[Marblez]

God damn but you are trusting.

Trusting in the american public to vote for judges who know how to do their jobs, yes, I am.

[Steven]

Wow, ok, so most of the things I was going to say and argue Brass already has, but I still feel I can add to this a bit.

Apparently I'm not that smart as Steven pointed out, and I shouldn't be punished for that, nor should anyone else for that matter. I say crazy shit all day long, and so do many others on the street. People are allowed to have different ideals and voice them out loud. Just because others disagree with them does not make it a bad thing, even if those "others" happen to be the majority.

“If all mankind minus one, were of one opinion, and only one person were of the contrary opinion, mankind would be no more justified in silencing that one person, than he, if he had the power, would be justified in silencing mankind.” — John Stuart Mill

That's the other thing, what if I don't want to change my surroundings. I like my surroundings just fine. Everyone on my block hates me pretty much since I got my hearse. Before they couldn't care less because they didn't see me, but now every time they walk out they get to stare at my preferred method of transportation. This does not give them the right to vote me off the block.

He meant them, and I agree with him (so arrest me fuckers). He didn't say he would, he just said he could see the gunman's point of view, which I can see too. This doesn't make me crazy or in need of therapy, it just makes me sympathetic to his plight. I can understand wanting to take a gun and start taking out everything within range that has a heartbeat. The fact that I don't makes me sane (well more so than him anyhow).

Yes, CONFORM AND SUBMIT OR FALL AT THE HANDS OF BUBBA.

The judge set that amount because the government likes money. They shouldn't have to pay anything, THIS SHOULDN'T EVEN BE HAPPENING!

If I was there I wouldn't have seen any danger, because no danger existed, ever. The only problem is that people are scared sheep.

edited to say: I love me my first amendment, and I'll shoot every motherfucker I see before I let them take that away.

you think too much.

I called you a dumb ass, for acting like a dumb ass. And I hate seeing smart people do dumb things.

[Steven]

God damn but you are trusting.

are you friggen serious???!!!

so are you when it suits your arguments.

[BrassFusion]

Trusting in the american public to vote for judges who know how to do their jobs, yes, I am.

If judges all agreed on how to interpret the law, there would never be split decisions in the supreme court and lower court decisions would never be challenged or reversed.

Edit: Oh, and forgot to mention: Assuming this case DOES get thrown out (because it sounds like an incredibly obvious breach of the kid's First Amendment rights), the narcs and the cops are still fucking retarded for making an issue out of it in the first place.

[Scary Guy]

Trusting in the american public to vote for judges who know how to do their jobs, yes, I am.

Bush got elected into office how many times? Ok granted each time could have been fixed but the fact that people STILL SUPPORT HIM makes me afraid.

Most Americans are too stupid to live IMO, and too lazy to go out and vote IN A PRESIDENTIAL ELECTION, so what makes you think they'll take time out of their busy lives to lift a finger to go out and vote for a judge (unless it suits their interests).

you think too much.

I called you a dumb ass, for acting like a dumb ass. And I hate seeing smart people do dumb things.

One cannot think too much, and if anything everyone should think more.

Also just because you think I'm doing something dumb in fact does not make it a dumb thing, again that's just your opinion.

But thanks for the thinly veiled complement none the less.

[CixWicked]

This frightens me

I'm scared of spiders, coach.

CixWicked

[sinmantyx]

This is Mr. I-want-attention simply being a bit harsh...

"During a discussion of the shooting in a gender and race class, Max Karson made comments sympathetic to the VT shooter, saying “if anyone in here says that they’ve never been so angry that you wanted to kill 32 people, you’re lying,” and that he was “angry about all kinds of things, from fluorescent light bulbs to the unpainted walls, and it made him angry enough to kill people.”"

He crossed the line here...

"Karson was also reportedly asked: “Would you kill all of us?” His response: “No. Not all of you.”"

"Scary Guy" - you are misrepresenting what this man said because you're having a knee-jerk reaction to someone being arrested for saying something.

He essentially said that he was angry enough to kill *some* of his classmates. This made his classmates frightened enough that they did not want to attend class. That was a disruption of the normal operations of the educational institution. Doing so just happened to be a misdemeanor.

I don't take kindly to those who seem to want to push the boundaries of law and of freedoms, just because they can. It is dangerous - tends to desensitize people to more deserving cases and invites further eroding of freedoms for everyone else.

This guy is out-spoken: good for him. However, if the accounts are accurate, he also threatened his classmates.

I also have a little bit of faith in people: I have faith that some dip-shit who wants to get attention will use a horrific event to freak-out his classmates for the pure fun of it. I also have faith that, the authorities around him know very well that taking this course of action toward this young man is going to be a pain in their necks; and provide this selfish little man with the attention he craves. I know that *I* certainly wouldn't act (out of pure laziness) unless I felt the situation warranted such action and I had a snail's-chance-on-salt to defend my decision.

NOTE: We are NOT talking about someone getting booted or arrested for saying something unpopular: Such as: Women have smaller brains than men (which is true), blacks are more likely to have sickle cell anemia (which is also true), or I don't believe in what you are teaching me because I put my faith in the Flying Spaghetti Monster.

Again: Sick sense of humor or not: he allegedly told his classmate - bluntly after being asked - that he was angry enough to kill some of them.

If I ever have to fight for my right to express an actual opinion: I don't want to be placed in the same category as stalkers, people who yell "fire" in movie theaters or smarmy shit-heads who directly threaten other people's lives.

[Steven]

Bush got elected into office how many times? Ok granted each time could have been fixed but the fact that people STILL SUPPORT HIM makes me afraid.

Most Americans are too stupid to live IMO, and too lazy to go out and vote IN A PRESIDENTIAL ELECTION, so what makes you think they'll take time out of their busy lives to lift a finger to go out and vote for a judge (unless it suits their interests).

One cannot think too much, and if anything everyone should think more.

Also just because you think I'm doing something dumb in fact does not make it a dumb thing, again that's just your opinion.

But thanks for the thinly veiled complement none the less.

zzzzzz

[Steven]

This is Mr. I-want-attention simply being a bit harsh...

"During a discussion of the shooting in a gender and race class, Max Karson made comments sympathetic to the VT shooter, saying “if anyone in here says that they’ve never been so angry that you wanted to kill 32 people, you’re lying,” and that he was “angry about all kinds of things, from fluorescent light bulbs to the unpainted walls, and it made him angry enough to kill people.”"

He crossed the line here...

"Karson was also reportedly asked: “Would you kill all of us?” His response: “No. Not all of you.”"

"Scary Guy" - you are misrepresenting what this man said because you're having a knee-jerk reaction to someone being arrested for saying something.

He essentially said that he was angry enough to kill *some* of his classmates. This made his classmates frightened enough that they did not want to attend class. That was a disruption of the normal operations of the educational institution. Doing so just happened to be a misdemeanor.

I don't take kindly to those who seem to want to push the boundaries of law and of freedoms, just because they can. It is dangerous - tends to desensitize people to more deserving cases and invites further eroding of freedoms for everyone else.

This guy is out-spoken: good for him. However, if the accounts are accurate, he also threatened his classmates.

I also have a little bit of faith in people: I have faith that some dip-shit who wants to get attention will use a horrific event to freak-out his classmates for the pure fun of it. I also have faith that, the authorities around him know very well that taking this course of action toward this young man is going to be a pain in their necks; and provide this selfish little man with the attention he craves. I know that *I* certainly wouldn't act (out of pure laziness) unless I felt the situation warranted such action and I had a snail's-chance-on-salt to defend my decision.

NOTE: We are NOT talking about someone getting booted or arrested for saying something unpopular: Such as: Women have smaller brains than men (which is true), blacks are more likely to have sickle cell anemia (which is also true), or I don't believe in what you are teaching me because I put my faith in the Flying Spaghetti Monster.

Again: Sick sense of humor or not: he allegedly told his classmate - bluntly after being asked - that he was angry enough to kill some of them.

If I ever have to fight for my right to express an actual opinion: I don't want to be placed in the same category as stalkers, people who yell "fire" in movie theaters or smarmy shit-heads who directly threaten other people's lives.

good job.

i liked this post

[Marblez]

This is Mr. I-want-attention simply being a bit harsh...

"During a discussion of the shooting in a gender and race class, Max Karson made comments sympathetic to the VT shooter, saying “if anyone in here says that they’ve never been so angry that you wanted to kill 32 people, you’re lying,” and that he was “angry about all kinds of things, from fluorescent light bulbs to the unpainted walls, and it made him angry enough to kill people.”"

He crossed the line here...

"Karson was also reportedly asked: “Would you kill all of us?” His response: “No. Not all of you.”"

"Scary Guy" - you are misrepresenting what this man said because you're having a knee-jerk reaction to someone being arrested for saying something.

He essentially said that he was angry enough to kill *some* of his classmates. This made his classmates frightened enough that they did not want to attend class. That was a disruption of the normal operations of the educational institution. Doing so just happened to be a misdemeanor.

I don't take kindly to those who seem to want to push the boundaries of law and of freedoms, just because they can. It is dangerous - tends to desensitize people to more deserving cases and invites further eroding of freedoms for everyone else.

This guy is out-spoken: good for him. However, if the accounts are accurate, he also threatened his classmates.

I also have a little bit of faith in people: I have faith that some dip-shit who wants to get attention will use a horrific event to freak-out his classmates for the pure fun of it. I also have faith that, the authorities around him know very well that taking this course of action toward this young man is going to be a pain in their necks; and provide this selfish little man with the attention he craves. I know that *I* certainly wouldn't act (out of pure laziness) unless I felt the situation warranted such action and I had a snail's-chance-on-salt to defend my decision.

NOTE: We are NOT talking about someone getting booted or arrested for saying something unpopular: Such as: Women have smaller brains than men (which is true), blacks are more likely to have sickle cell anemia (which is also true), or I don't believe in what you are teaching me because I put my faith in the Flying Spaghetti Monster.

Again: Sick sense of humor or not: he allegedly told his classmate - bluntly after being asked - that he was angry enough to kill some of them.

If I ever have to fight for my right to express an actual opinion: I don't want to be placed in the same category as stalkers, people who yell "fire" in movie theaters or smarmy shit-heads who directly threaten other people's lives.

Well said, Sinmantyx.

[BrassFusion]

good post, s-(wo)man, but i don't feel it's a threat to say "no, not all of you." it was a pretty funny retort actually. and if he was really gonna do it, he wouldn't tell them, right?

hell, if i was to go on a killing spree and dgn was like, all set up in a school cafeteria, i'd kill a couple dgners. IF I was gonna go on a killing spree, which I can honestly never see myself doing anyway. i'm getting off track, aren't i?

[sinmantyx]

good post, s-(wo)man, but i don't feel it's a threat to say "no, not all of you." it was a pretty funny retort actually. and if he was really gonna do it, he wouldn't tell them, right?

hell, if i was to go on a killing spree and dgn was like, all set up in a school cafeteria, i'd kill a couple dgners. IF I was gonna go on a killing spree, which I can honestly never see myself doing anyway. i'm getting off track, aren't i?

Here is a good comment from "chris" that I lifted from the linked site:

"People forget that schools are in a no-win situation with potential violence.

Arrest the kid who was (unsuccessfully) trying to be funny and get the ACLU shoved down their throats -or- not respond, cross your fingers that he was only joking, and be crucified later if violence does break out.

From the sound of the douchebag's prior record, he would have brought down the ACLU even if they had only removed him from the class for the rest of the term."

He already wrote an extremely misogynistic "satire" about brutalizing women that he self-published on campus and dodged the "hostile environment" issues.

However much we might want to ASSUME he isn't the least bit serious...he seems to lack basic empathy. I don't think the authorities really have the luxury of assuming he's just flapping his mouth; and they certainly have some responsibility towards the other students.

Also, the fact that the other student's are as freaked out as they are and this guy doesn't seem to be taking any responsibility for the fear that he has created: makes me really have no sympathy for the man what-so-ever.

If we find out that, while over-sensitive students were leaving the class shaken and crying, he was assuring them that his comments were satirical and that he had no intention of harming them: then he got carted away by the authorities: I may change my tune.

However, on the face of it, it certainly seems like he left them in fear out of his own enjoyment. This guy is in the same category as the man who threatened me at work (mentioned earlier) and interfered with my life and peace-of-mind.

[BrassFusion]

there's a lot of context we're all missing out on. i guess i'm predisposed to assume that when shit like this happens, MOST of the time, it's people overreacting because they want 15 minutes of fame or some bullshit legal settlement.

[sinmantyx]

there's a lot of context we're all missing out on. i guess i'm predisposed to assume that when shit like this happens, MOST of the time, it's people overreacting because they want 15 minutes of fame or some bullshit legal settlement.

I just wish I was an English teacher right now: I would have a great extra credit assignment called:

Letters to Max Karson: a lesson in satire

[Scary Guy]

I threaten people all the time, however no one takes me seriously because most know I'm kidding around. I don't want to go to jail and I don't wish to die in a blaze of glory/stupidity.

You want to know who to watch out for? The people who don't smile at anything. At least if they're a couple of freaks smiling at dead baby jokes they're still smiling at something. It should have been obvious to anyone who knew that kid that he was joking. The fact that no one has taken the time to know him that well just speaks poorly on them.

Brass has it right too, anyone smart enough to kill 32 people probably won't announce his plans in advance.

Not to mention where were the police in this? They don't announce over the PA that there is a guy with a gun roaming the halls and the cops don't bust in with their armor and guns to take him out. Instead they hide outside behind cars and trees. At the very least give the teachers guns (and mental screenings I guess as well).