Help Me!

[CixWicked]

I'm not much for therapy... well that's not true... I'm not much for 'Therapists', but it's hard to get one without the other. Of course I also don't believe in knocking another persons Parenting, or Religion unless it's causing definitive harm to someone else.

Now coming from someone who's never been to a therapist, and doesn't foresee going to one, I have a fundamental problem with the way I perceive them to work.

ANALOGY TIME!!!

Let's say I have a computer... and I take it to a shop, and I say 'Somethings wrong with the computer... I can't get it to behave correctly.' He's gonna tell me one of several things... (This is whats wrong with it, this is what it takes to fix it, here's how much it cost. OR you're out of luck. There's no way to fix that problem, get a new computer), but never will he tell me. "Well, bring it in once a week... forever..."

Now, I said before, and I'll say it again. This is a prejudgemental view of things. I admit, I may be way off base, and I don't know anything about Therapy from any experience, because I have no experience. It just seems to me that therapy never ends. The Therapist would always perpetuate a return visit, where as with any other service industry, they would be out of business.

Now don't get me wrong, I'm certain that there are -awesome- therapists out there, and I don't doubt that the majority help people cope and deal with life. I also don't doubt that there are lots of people in the world who -are- mentally incurable, and who's only attachment to proper behavior is a therapist, but I doubt there are -ANY- therapist in regular practice who solve a reliable number of their cases, and send a good majority of their patients home 'fixed'.

If I were to do the therapy thing, I couldn't commit to someone regularly. I would much rather see a Social adviser, than a Therapist. Someone who you come to with your problem, and pay them some set amount, and they work at fixing the problem that you have. It's fixed, go home.

Treat them like a mechanic. I ask for your help, and if you tell me "I almost got it fixed... come back next week." I say screw you, and find one who -will- fix me right.

I just can't see myself sitting in an office, yapping at a guy for 50 minutes about my dreams, my parents, my wife, my kids, what's bothering me, and he spends 10 minutes asking me what I think it means, assuring me that I'm wrong, and giving me pills to take until the next time I come back and go through the same thing. AND I'll be damned if I'm gonna pay -him- for that...

Like I said, I don't doubt that there are people out there who -need- therapy, and I don't doubt that there are great therapists out there. I just know that if -I- were a therapist, and I saw that all I had to say was 'Come back next week' and I'd make another dollar... I'd be hard pressed to 'cure' anyone.

But what do I know?

:: SHRUG ::

[Rayne]

Now don't get me wrong, I'm certain that there are -awesome- therapists out there, and I don't doubt that the majority help people cope and deal with life. I also don't doubt that there are lots of people in the world who -are- mentally incurable, and who's only attachment to proper behavior is a therapist, but I doubt there are -ANY- therapist in regular practice who solve a reliable number of their cases, and send a good majority of their patients home 'fixed'.

If I were to do the therapy thing, I couldn't commit to someone regularly. I would much rather see a Social adviser, than a Therapist. Someone who you come to with your problem, and pay them some set amount, and they work at fixing the problem that you have. It's fixed, go home.

Treat them like a mechanic. I ask for your help, and if you tell me "I almost got it fixed... come back next week." I say screw you, and find one who -will- fix me right.

I just can't see myself sitting in an office, yapping at a guy for 50 minutes about my dreams, my parents, my wife, my kids, what's bothering me, and he spends 10 minutes asking me what I think it means, assuring me that I'm wrong, and giving me pills to take until the next time I come back and go through the same thing. AND I'll be damned if I'm gonna pay -him- for that...

Like I said, I don't doubt that there are people out there who -need- therapy, and I don't doubt that there are great therapists out there. I just know that if -I- were a therapist, and I saw that all I had to say was 'Come back next week' and I'd make another dollar... I'd be hard pressed to 'cure' anyone.

But what do I know?

:: SHRUG ::

They deal with young children much different. When I left my first husband, one of the conditions of me coming to live back home with my parents was that I go into therapy. I went for two weeks before the therapist told my Mom "She doesn't need it." It was a total waste of my time. My Dad has seen a therapist each time he came out if alcohol rehab ... for like a year or so, I've seen it help. My Mom has seen therapists off and on throughout her life to deal with issues she has. I have seen it help. To me ... it was no help.

I've seen mixed results with my daughter. I've seen it help and I've seen it do no good. But just because it's not helping at the moment, I'm not going to deny her something that may be helping in a long term sense ... just not immediately.

Kids are so impressionable ... she's going to remember the majourity of what each of her therapists have taught her when she gets older. If she chooses to use it or not -- that's up to her.

[BrassFusion]

meaning no disrespect to your decisions... i think the overwhelming message put forth by sending a child to several therapists is "you're in need of therapy," which could be interpreted other ways, like, "you shouldn't have to depend on yourself to make unaided decisions," or even, "you're incapable of making good decisions on your own." i really can't stand adults like that, who have no faith in themselves.

[Rayne]

meaning no disrespect to your decisions... i think the overwhelming message put forth by sending a child to several therapists is "you're in need of therapy," which could be interpreted other ways, like, "you shouldn't have to depend on yourself to make unaided decisions," or even, "you're incapable of making good decisions on your own." i really can't stand adults like that, who have no faith in themselves.

She has switched providers once. Other than that, the providers have switched her therapists. I haven't sent her to "several therapists" but she has had four all together.

Also, my daughter has severe psychological conditions that affect her daily actions/interactions ... etc.

[phee]

She has switched providers once. Other than that, the providers have switched her therapists. I haven't sent her to "several therapists" but she has had four all together.

Also, my daughter has severe psychological conditions that affect her daily actions/interactions ... etc.

I can vouch for this from first hand experience. And one thing I will say it is VERY HARD to see what is being discussed here from an outsiders point of view, it is difficult to explain the nature of this unless it is seen first hand. I have heard a lot of people who have never met her say "Oh just give me some time with her and I could straighten it out" or "Therapy makes it worse" or even "It wouldn't be that way if it was my kid"... A lot of the people who say these things either A.) have not kids themselves and cannot judge or B.) have no idea/cannot empathize with the truely extraordinary circumstances that this girl has had in her life up to now that have created the situation.

[Troy Spiral (13)]

You already know what to do, you just need to do it, over and over again, like a prison warden.

Occasionally, iffy, sometimes-enforced rules wont work on anything approaching a "stubborn" child. There is no trick to it. It just requires constancy.

I've babysat plenty of brats (and all my single mother girlfriends kids have been brats), and its always , the lack of full hardcore enforcement of a sound rule that is what makes them continue to be brats. (unless they are just nuts, but you don't have a nut for a kid)

Whatever he likes the most, take that away. But, don't just "oh ill take it away for now". You need to be fairly nazi-ish about it. Hes done, he's never gonna see that toy, the TV, his best friend, YOU ever again as far as hes concerned. Thats it hes through. Life's over son, you broke the rules one to many times. Was nice knowing you. Treats? HAHA yeah right. Bad kids don't get treats, and they get reminded of that.

Then, maybe, after hes been crying in the corner for an hour. (and you IGNORE that crying bullshit as a means of him getting attention) Crying is no longer acceptable means of "getting mommy to pay attention to me". Let him know he can have whatever it is back as long as you don't hear a fucking PEEP out of him ever again.

As soon as they act up again... BOOM back to the concentration camp. No negotiation. A 4 year old has no opinion other than the ones you agree to let him have. Hes not the boss, you are, and he better know it.

If they cant do anything but sit in a corner and have no toys and nothing to do that they enjoy, and you don't give in to their crying and whining, they will shape up. But its more about you as the rule maker/enforcer than it is about them.

If your kid is far gone enough it might take some serious iron-will to re-educate them. Once hes agreed to be a good boy... ok fine here you go you get your privileges back. But as soon as he backslides.. IMEDATLEY hes back in the concentration camp. He'll get the idea right quick.

I know its hard , but you do need to be part prison warden, to fix stubborn kids. Its often more about you than it is about the kid. Kids are a massive life-commitment.

Also if you live with someone or have babysitters they have to be on the same page. The same rules apply regardless if its daddy, mommy or the babysitter.

Your also not their friends or their buddies your the parent. Every single mother i ever dated has had bad manners kids. It always has stemmed from them giving in to the crying and "cuteness" and not enforcing rules consistently over time.

[Rayne]

You already know what to do, you just need to do it, over and over again, like a prison warden.

Occasionally, iffy, sometimes-enforced rules wont work on anything approaching a "stubborn" child. There is no trick to it. It just requires constancy.

I've babysat plenty of brats (and all my single mother girlfriends kids have been brats), and its always , the lack of full hardcore enforcement of a sound rule that is what makes them continue to be brats. (unless they are just nuts, but you don't have a nut for a kid)

Whatever he likes the most, take that away. But, don't just "oh ill take it away for now". You need to be fairly nazi-ish about it. Hes done, he's never gonna see that toy, the TV, his best friend, YOU ever again as far as hes concerned. Thats it hes through. Life's over son, you broke the rules one to many times. Was nice knowing you. Treats? HAHA yeah right. Bad kids don't get treats, and they get reminded of that.

Then, maybe, after hes been crying in the corner for an hour. (and you IGNORE that crying bullshit as a means of him getting attention) Crying is no longer acceptable means of "getting mommy to pay attention to me". Let him know he can have whatever it is back as long as you don't hear a fucking PEEP out of him ever again.

As soon as they act up again... BOOM back to the concentration camp. No negotiation. A 4 year old has no opinion other than the ones you agree to let him have. Hes not the boss, you are, and he better know it.

If they cant do anything but sit in a corner and have no toys and nothing to do that they enjoy, and you don't give in to their crying and whining, they will shape up. But its more about you as the rule maker/enforcer than it is about them.

If your kid is far gone enough it might take some serious iron-will to re-educate them. Once hes agreed to be a good boy... ok fine here you go you get your privileges back. But as soon as he backslides.. IMEDATLEY hes back in the concentration camp. He'll get the idea right quick.

I know its hard , but you do need to be part prison warden, to fix stubborn kids. Its often more about you than it is about the kid. Kids are a massive life-commitment.

Also if you live with someone or have babysitters they have to be on the same page. The same rules apply regardless if its daddy, mommy or the babysitter.

Your also not their friends or their buddies your the parent. Every single mother i ever dated has had bad manners kids. It always has stemmed from them giving in to the crying and "cuteness" and not enforcing rules consistently over time.

Good advice Troy ... but your reply suggests how to handle "normal" kids. Not all kids fall in the catergory of "normal". In fact, reading all the Psychology I have, about 85% of kids who come from divorce situations have undealt with issues that they carry with them for the rest of their lives. A lot of these kids are your severe ADHD kids and Oppositional Defiant Disorder kids. Occasionally your childhood depression and anxiety kids. Your OCD kids .... it manifests itself in different ways in different children. If they don't learn how to deal with it on their own or get the help they need to deal with it, then they carry it through adulthood. They may not be aware of it and it is not always outwardly apparent. They may have issues accepting or giving love, problems with relationships, problems with emotions ... Even those who regularly see the other parent. No matter how young or old they were. Also in single parent/step-parent/only child situations, parents don't realize the need for rules until their children become more of a burden than making and enforcing the rules would ... by then, it's a long hard road to reform.

Three of mine do - even my Autism Spectrum 4 year old son has behaviour considered "normal" - one of mine doesn't. All the behaviour modification in the world hasn't made a DENT in her behaviour. Trust me, I DON'T give in. EVER. I am VERY strict with her. It's not me and it's not my parenting.

*edited for spelling errors

[rene]

You already know what to do, you just need to do it, over and over again, like a prison warden.

Occasionally, iffy, sometimes-enforced rules wont work on anything approaching a "stubborn" child. There is no trick to it. It just requires constancy.

I've babysat plenty of brats (and all my single mother girlfriends kids have been brats), and its always , the lack of full hardcore enforcement of a sound rule that is what makes them continue to be brats. (unless they are just nuts, but you don't have a nut for a kid)

Whatever he likes the most, take that away. But, don't just "oh ill take it away for now". You need to be fairly nazi-ish about it. Hes done, he's never gonna see that toy, the TV, his best friend, YOU ever again as far as hes concerned. Thats it hes through. Life's over son, you broke the rules one to many times. Was nice knowing you. Treats? HAHA yeah right. Bad kids don't get treats, and they get reminded of that.

Then, maybe, after hes been crying in the corner for an hour. (and you IGNORE that crying bullshit as a means of him getting attention) Crying is no longer acceptable means of "getting mommy to pay attention to me". Let him know he can have whatever it is back as long as you don't hear a fucking PEEP out of him ever again.

As soon as they act up again... BOOM back to the concentration camp. No negotiation. A 4 year old has no opinion other than the ones you agree to let him have. Hes not the boss, you are, and he better know it.

If they cant do anything but sit in a corner and have no toys and nothing to do that they enjoy, and you don't give in to their crying and whining, they will shape up. But its more about you as the rule maker/enforcer than it is about them.

If your kid is far gone enough it might take some serious iron-will to re-educate them. Once hes agreed to be a good boy... ok fine here you go you get your privileges back. But as soon as he backslides.. IMEDATLEY hes back in the concentration camp. He'll get the idea right quick.

I know its hard , but you do need to be part prison warden, to fix stubborn kids. Its often more about you than it is about the kid. Kids are a massive life-commitment.

Also if you live with someone or have babysitters they have to be on the same page. The same rules apply regardless if its daddy, mommy or the babysitter.

Your also not their friends or their buddies your the parent. Every single mother i ever dated has had bad manners kids. It always has stemmed from them giving in to the crying and "cuteness" and not enforcing rules consistently over time.

How long shopuld I put him in the corner for?

[rene]

Good advice Troy ... but your reply suggests how to handle "normal" kids. Not all kids fall in the catergory of "normal". In fact, reading all the Psychology I have, about 85% of kids who come from divorce situations have undealt with issues that they carry with them for the rest of their lives. A lot of these kids are your severe ADHD kids and Oppositional Defiant Disorder kids. Occasionally your childhood depression and anxiety kids. Your OCD kids .... it manifests itself in different ways in different children. If they don't learn how to deal with it on their own or get the help they need to deal with it, then they carry it through adulthood. They may not be aware of it and it is not always outwardly apparent. They may have issues accepting or giving love, problems with relationships, problems with emotions ... Even those who regularly see the other parent. No matter how young or old they were. Also in single parent/step-parent/only child situations, parents don't realize the need for rules until their children become more of a burden than making and enforcing the rules would ... by then, it's a long hard road to reform.

Three of mine do - even my Autism Spectrum 4 year old son has behaviour considered "normal" - one of mine doesn't. All the behaviour modification in the world hasn't made a DENT in her behaviour. Trust me, I DON'T give in. EVER. I am VERY strict with her. It's not me and it's not my parenting.

*edited for spelling errors

I have an appointment for us to go meet with a counseler on Tuesday she will then tell us id she is needed or if there is something we can do at home that will help him. Thanks for everyones advice I am about to walk into traffic.

[Gauge]

How long shopuld I put him in the corner for?

untill he gets the point. I use to hate beeing put in the corner so when my mom would make me it was never longer than a couple minutes (basically long enough for me to stop crying and apologize) on the other hand my one cousin would rather sit in the corner for hours just to prove something. just moniter him, once he stops crying or screaming or throwing tantrums and starts calming down go over and ask him if he knows why you put him in the corner and if hes gonna be good. usually youll be able to tell by then cause youll get an ear full or a sorry

[Gaf The Horse With Tears]

Corner/Timeout should be 1 mintue per year of age. Which oddly is about how long they remember WHY they are in the Corner/Timeout.

I have raised/am raising 6 Kids. 5 of which are severly ADHD. Then again, so am I... What were we talking about? Right... Consistancy and understanding. Listening.. really listening to the kids. Recognize warning signs of bad behaivor and steer them toward better behaivor before the bad gets started.

and my pet peeve... Kids are never bad. NEVER. Kids can do bad things and naughty things.. but the kid is not bad. They hear everything and everything you say counts. Everything.

[BrassFusion]

Kids are never bad. NEVER. Kids can do bad things and naughty things.. but the kid is not bad. They hear everything and everything you say counts. Everything.

well put