Holocaust And Crusades Might Be Offensive

[Dubh Aingeal]

It appears that some UK schools are ignoring the Holocaust. A government-backed study, funded by the Department for Education and Skills, found that some teachers are reluctant to teach history lessons on the Holocaust for fear of offending Muslim students whose beliefs include Holocaust denial. Additionally, similar problems are being encountered with lessons on because these lessons contradict teachings from local mosques.

[n0Mad]

Boo hoo. You don't like it? Send your kids to private schools. Or better yet, home school them. As for public schools, anything they teach shouldn't be influenced by religion at all. Especially in America where we supposedly have seperation of church and state. Who knows what goes on in the UK though. Well, HeadWreck does.

[BrassFusion]

Oh, GREAT idea, let 10-year-olds dictate class curriculum for fear of "offending" their parents.

Most history IS offensive and that's why it must be taught. Fucking prophet Muhammed, you figure these stupid cunts on a schoolboard should realize at least that. What in the world justification could muslims POSSIBLY have for denying the holocaust? were they there in europe while it was... well... NOT happening?? didn't they fucking see schindler's list???

(okay bad joke lol)

[Mizuna]

What of the Jewish and Amerian people who had suffered from the Holocausts? What about them?

That argument isn't very reasonable, I mean, anything could be found offensive. Why the hell care what a minority thinks? If people did care, they wouldn't be a minority, aka Stfu.

[Scary Guy]

History is just that, history. To deny that it happened is ignorance pure and simple.

I highly doubt that a whole bunch of jewish people came up with this hoax. I've seen the tattoos and heard the stories first hand.

I'll respect anyone's belief structure as long as it doesn't suck. To deny the truth is to royally suck IMO.

[maeve]

This type of thing is also happening in the US. I believe it is Missouri (but don't quote me on the specific state), where the schools have forbid the teaching of the Holocaust and the Crusades because it is offensive to some of the Muslim students who have been taught that the Holocaust is a fabrication and have also been told that the crusades did not happen the way "we" say they happened. I understand different perspectives on history, I really do. It varies greatly depending on who is telling the story and which government, or power, (whatever) wins control after a battle. The victoriuos party is always going to be able to present their side of the issue in a more dominant light. That's the way history works; think about it. A group comes in, wins, destroys the defeated culture (and its artifacts), the dominant culture presents its version. Now technically, as historians, we already know this. And knowing this is what makes teaching history important. Many times the accounts are different due to many various reasons; predjudice, bias, personal advancement, etc... This is why a "true" historian will look at the "primary" evidence (the actual documentation of the time in question) and then compare it to many diverse "secondary" (written by people not of the period) accounts to try and piece together as much fact as possible. In my opinion then, what needs to be taught in the schools is the understanding that history is not an exact science, but it does involve very precise proceedures that credentialed historians follow in order to come up with the most accurate account possible. It also needs to be stressed that not everyone will agree with the account, and then offer some insight into what critics of the account may claim and show their evidence next to the evidence that was used to create the generally excepted account. This way you teach the children that our knowledge of history is not necessarily exact, but that according to the evidence we have, the generally execpted accounts are, in fact, the most probable. If this offends anyone, well, tough; depending on what period of history one is looking at, you could most certainly offend someone at any time, but the evidence should stand for itself and that is what should be taught. Students need to learn how to look at the various pieces of evidence and then determine for themselves their belief. If they are taught the proper research proceedures, they'll most likely understand why the gernerally accepted account is generally excepted.

[Head Wreck]

and people looked at me odd when i mentioned i wouldnt mind emigrating to s ensible country

[BrassFusion]

that's very insightful, maeve, and i like to think that's how most college level courses are approached. i'll admit it IS trickier with teaching kids (who don't understand shades of gray so well), but eliminating that shit from the curriculum is unforgivable

[Gaf The Horse With Tears]

DEnial of the Halacaust is pretty common. If you acknoledge the halacaust it gives some legitimacy to Isreal existing as a Jewish state. What good Muslim wants to do that?

As for the Crusades... well duh... As much as the devil white men from Europe are blamed for all the evils in those wars.. well... The Muslims did thier fair share of bad mojo. At least one outbreak of Black Death has been proven to have been done deliberately by the Muslims.

The thing is... You can't always smell of Roses if you are planted firmly in bullshit. There isn't a person alive who can't be connected, at least in some remote way, to some autracity or another.

[Onyx]

Boo hoo. You don't like it? Send your kids to private schools. Or better yet, home school them. As for public schools, anything they teach shouldn't be influenced by religion at all. Especially in America where we supposedly have seperation of church and state. Who knows what goes on in the UK though. Well, HeadWreck does.

Exactly.

If a parent wants their child educated in some unusual way that leaves out certain facts then they should foot the bill, not me.

[maeve]

that's very insightful, maeve, and i like to think that's how most college level courses are approached. i'll admit it IS trickier with teaching kids (who don't understand shades of gray so well), but eliminating that shit from the curriculum is unforgivable

Thanks...and I do think that we can begin to teach proper research technique in the primary grades, as well as secondary, and college level. I see my elementary age kids coming home with research projects in Science where they have to document (all be it, not at the college level) where they found their information. That's a start. Apply this to history, english, even art projects and it will begin to open up a whole new world to them. As for understanding the concepts...we teach our kids that not everyone sees things the same way. That's a concept that, yes, does have to develop with age, as the human brain just takes a while to understand that what it is thinking, is not necessarily what everyone, or anyone, else is also thinking. But continued reinforcement of that idea by the time they have reached school age will eventually help them to become more open minded when preforming research. Historical "fact" changes quite a bit as we progress through the annals of time; I just read an interesting article on the pyrimids which suggests that a good portion of the stones were cast as opposed to being cut and hauled up the sides before being put into place. This was determined through some type of geological testing that shows the stones are not actual limestone but rather a combination of materials. This find, for example, could end up changing history as we know it. I guess what I'm trying to say is this: Personally, I believe the Holocaust happened. One reason I belive this is because growing up I had a neighbor whom I spoke with and knew well, who had been in a concentration camp (Primary evidence). The problem: As more and more people who lived at that time die, the more lack of primary evidence we have. Eventually our secondary sources will be more abundant than our primary; this will open up the door for more scepticism, which could possibly create a time in the future where the Holocaust is no longer believed to be true. History is a tricky field and is highly subject to critisicm. That's why knowing proper research methods can help sort out the probable from the improbable. When you can be fairly certain that your source followed correct proceedures, you can be more certain that their information is accurate. You have to verify your sources, and then verify their sources, and so on. Ingraing that idea, I think, can begin as early as the 1st grade with a simple "why" question, i.e. "Billy, what state do you live in?" "Michigan." "Why do you think you live in Michigan?" "Because my mom said so" "Well, let's see if we can verify that...look here on the map, can you find Michigan, can you find our city's name? Yes? Well, then chances are pretty good that your mom is right" Just a senerio that I thought would help demonstrate the ease that verifying sources and doing research could begin to be taught. Establishing the habit/practice of verification can be done without having to initially apply the technique to more complicated material; and by the time the child is ready to begin serious research, the habit will already be there. Just my two cents. I'll try to stop rambling now.

[Mizuna]

I agree that some education should be compulsory, mainly history, not because its important to some people in general, but to help with the ignorance factors of, if you haven't heard of it, it hasn't happened. It is a lot like the old argument of evolution and religion,but I believe this problem will be solved the same way sex education was.... If you don't want your kids ot learn it, make them sit the fuck outside.

[Troy Spiral (13)]

Unfortunately, history doesn't have strong enough and active enough proponents.

The benefits of history, while they might be clear-cut in the minds of some is a very hard sell in the face of voting, active, fire breathing opposition.. So, if they can avoid some grief by ignoring or downplaying certain aspects of history, thats how its gonna go.

The proponents of accurate, honest, unvarnished history are few, and typically moderate in their tone.

They gloss over WWII nazi history in germany so fast it makes the head spin. Because, its uncomfortable. Does that make it right? No, but Who Wants To Marry A Millionaire is on so fuck it, im outa here! :peanutbutterjellytime