Question Of What Is Right - Satanism + Asatru...

[DarkenedCharm]

What do you think about this? It is something that is confusing me:

I was raised Christian. After a lifetime of unanswered questions, conflict of information, and witnessing (i.e. - being the victim of) mass hypocrisy within the "religion", I left in 1990. I went back to it, confused, as nothing in my life at the time fit. Again, for the same reasons as 1990, I left again in 1996-97, and continued my studies in LaVeyan and Luciferian Satanism. I claimed Satanism for a few years until Asatru (Norse / Odinist philosophies and mythology) began catching my interest. I have been studying Asatru ever since, and have in the past 3 years taken to wearing a Thor's Hammer as my amulet of protection, along with my Sigil of Baphomet. I have gotten quite far reaching opposing reactions to the wearing of both at the same time. My dilemma:

I have gotten people who applaud me for blending the two philosophies, as they are both anti-Christian philosophies, and run along the same lines at times. Then again, I have had people who have accused me of wearing both amulets "simply because they look cool", while not knowing anything of my history.

Does anyone know enough about the two to comment? If I were backed into a corner and made to choose just one to follow, it would be Satanism. Am I a retard, or am I reasonably normal in my confusion? Someone help, please...LOL I'm feeling like an ass as I type this.

[Daevion]

I'm familiar with LaVey. What is Luciferian Satanism?

I've read up on LaVey, although I'm not satanist.

[Daniel]

I tend to blend ideas from existentialism and Zen. You don't have to follow something's code 100% to the letter to take some sort of functional wisdom from it and apply it to your life. Even if the two conflict, what you need to do is discover the conflicts, iron them out and custom them to your own life. Part of the problem with Christianity, or any other doctrine based religion, is that the dogmas are often seen as immutable. You shouldn't feel any particular need to hold LeVey's doctrines, or anyone elses, as infalliable. I suspect, from what I know of LaVey, that he wouldn't want you to do that anyway.

I've read and know quite a bit about Satanism. As a youth, I still didn't like him or his institutions, but found a lot of ideas in his tenants that I related to and agreed with. I still do... very, very marginally, but feel that I have moved past the misanthropist stuff.

[Vater Araignee]

I commend you in you ability to merge

Here is my symbol.

Pagan formost however I have a tendency to swing more Judaic than christian.

And just imagine what people think of me.

I say don't give a shit about your accusers they obviously want to be miserable.

Quick questing about your view on Thor.

Do you view him predominately as Warring or Smithing?

I am a welder a sort of smith and before that a bot operator that had to swing a hammer all day long there by damaging my wrist elbow and shoulder.

now every time I pick up a hammer I give a silent prayer to the smithing aspect of Thor begging for protection. It works for me zero pain.

I'd also love to see what your symbol looks like.

[phee]

I dabbled in the whole Satanism thing a bit in highschool, I found that it just seemed to be another facet of the entire picture of "religion" I believe that taking the parts that you like out of all the choices that are out there and making your own spiritual choices is about the smartest most fulfilling thing that I have ever done... I do like some of the parts of Christianity, I like Some parts of Greek Mythology as well, also some parts of assorted Native American beliefs seem to makes sense

[Onyx]

I dabbled in the whole Satanism thing a bit in highschool, I found that it just seemed to be another facet of the entire picture of "religion" I believe that taking the parts that you like out of all the choices that are out there and making your own spiritual choices is about the smartest most fulfilling thing that I have ever done... I do like some of the parts of Christianity, I like Some parts of Greek Mythology as well, also some parts of assorted Native American beliefs seem to makes sense

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Where can I read more about Native American beliefs (particularly Cherokee)? Can someone point me to a link or a book? I've googled it a bit but there's not much I find online.

[Vater Araignee]

Where can I read more about Native American beliefs (particularly Cherokee)?  Can someone point me to a link or a book?  I've googled it a bit but there's not much I find online.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Native American beliefs

and you could try to google Native American mythology I wish people would stop calling other view points mythology

:

[Brenda Starrr]

I wish people would stop calling other view points mythology

I agree. Just because I'm Christian, doesn't mean that everyone else's beliefs are a myth. We believe what we believe for a lot of reasons. It bugs me when someone calls another's belief a "myth".

[phee]

Actually all of my beliefs are a myth.... sorry

[Brenda Starrr]

But that's what you believe.

[Daniel]

This definitely falls back into semantics, but it isn't really inappropriate to refer to elements of a belief system as myths. Consider the definiton:

http://dictionary.reference.com/search?q=myth

Part of it indicates that they are fictional or half-truths. But the primary definition is:

"A traditional, typically ancient story dealing with supernatural beings, ancestors, or heroes that serves as a fundamental type in the worldview of a people, as by explaining aspects of the natural world or delineating the psychology, customs, or ideals of society"

When I discuss religions, and the doctrines of them(particularly ones with God(s), legends and fables of which Christianity is included), I view them just as this. I also view them as "half-truths". You can't concretely determine that they are untrue, but I also have no reason to accept that they are true, even though you may believe in them. Thus, to me, they are myths. It isn't really a condescending term, and it is accurate.

Also, I don't think you can so much call a belief a myth. The object of the belief can fairly be called a myth, but not the actual act of believing. I see Adam and Eve, Noah, angels, demons, Satan, et al, as being part of Judeo-Christian mythology. But, I wouldn't say someone believing in the tenants of Christianity, or anything else, is mythology.

[Fierce Critter]

I have gotten people who applaud me for blending the two philosophies, as they are both anti-Christian philosophies...

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Hmm... I'm not comfortable with the "anti-Christian" statement there.

I'm pagan, not 'cause it's "anti" anything. Just 'cause it's where my spirituality has led me. I'm not anti-anything.

It's not the subject here, so I won't derail too much. And according to your statement, it was someone else who used that term, not you. But to practice a religion with the purpose of being anti-Christian, to me, isn't being spiritual - it's being rebellious.

As for satanism/Asatru, I'm familiar with some basics of Asatru, though not really the philosophies behind it. From what I know of Satanism, the basis is "Do what thou wilt shall be the whole of the law", and I find that disturbing. I don't feel humans need to be accountable to others for their actions. But I don't like seeing that interpreted as, "screw everyone else and don't give a damn if what you do hurts others".

As for blending two philosophies, I don't know enough about the ones in question here to comment specifically. But generally, I know it's possible to blend seemingly contradictory beliefs. The form of paganism I believe in dates back to the early Poles around the time of the Christian invasions. They practiced a dual-faith, intertwining their basically nature-based beliefs with complimentary Christian ones, and were quite happy. As someone put it, "they went to mass and came home and fed the fairies".

So while I can't comment on satanism/Asatru directly, I don't doubt it's possible to blend the two.

[LuthienTheFallen]

santanism is Anti, its a rebellion agaist heaven as when Lucifer took a 1/3 of the angels in heaven and started war. anyways darkened if u have questions i belong to the church of satan and would be happy to help if u have questions dilemmas etc...

[Daniel]

From what I know of Satanism, the basis is "Do what thou wilt shall be the whole of the law", and I find that disturbing.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

This is from Crowley's "Book of The Law".

These are LeVey's Satanic Principals:

The Eleven Satanic Rules of the Earth

I Do not give opinions or advice unless you are asked.

II Do not tell your troubles to others unless you are sure that they want to hear them.

III When in another's lair, show him respect or else do not go there.

IV If a guest in your lair annoys you, treat him cruelly and without mercy.

V Do not make sexual advances unless you are given the mating signal.

VI Do not take that which does not belong to you unless it is a burden to the person and he cries out to be relieved.

VII Acknowledge the power of magic if you have used it successfully to obtain your desires. If you deny the power of magic after having called upon it with success, you will lose all you have obtained.

VIII Do not complain about anything to which you need not subject yourself.

IX Do not harm little children.

X Do not kill non-human animals unless attacked or for your food.

XI When walking in open territory, bother no one. If someone bothers you, ask him to stop. If he does not stop, destroy him.

Anton Szandor LaVey, 1967 c.e.

[Brenda Starrr]

I already abide by the large majority of this.

[phee]

He is a little strange... I have heard him speak and say that Satanism is not Devil Worship.... It kinda makes me wonder why they call it Satanism?

[Brenda Starrr]

Maybe I'm the one who is confused.

[Daniel]

They treat Satan as an icon or a symbol, they don't worship him. Satan represents rebellion, etc.

Satanism, at least per LaVey's Satanic Bible, seems less like a religion to me, and more like a code to live by. It is harsh and ruthless, but somewhat practical and just if you are inclined to be misanthropic anyway. But, what they do not do is worship devils, or anything else. Well, seems he might have encouraged worshipping yourself, but I could be wrong.

[phee]

Cuz religion is confusing

[soothsayer]

I find life is easier when you try to not understand religions. All religions have something fucked up about them and there are too many zealots that wanna kill others for not being of the same faith. What's more fucked than people that say they follow a religion and then do things that their religion denotes or condems? By that I mean living or behaving in manners that would be considerd against their beliefs. Some people are good but most people just use it to try and make themself look good.

[Fierce Critter]

living or behaving in manners that would be considerd against their beliefs. Some people are good but most people just  use it to try and make themself look good.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Amen, brutha!

[Troy Spiral (13)]

Added later: Bah i screwed up this post but dont have the energy to re-construct it so the thoughts are a bit disjointed, its all there , just cut & pasted wrong a few times so its a bit messy.

First off, very interesting topic. (and im trying to stay on-topic as defined by Darkened) Glad to see it. Been in and around this type of conversation for at least a decade, specifcily with the two "faiths" mentioned actually. So heres my minimum-frills, a bit blunt but well intended spin:

Satanism will , if taken at its word as set down in The Satanic Bible tend to lead one to Agonstic/Atheisitic sentiments (its possible to weave theistic ideas into satanism but difficult , once you get around the symantic argument of "man as god"). Satanism is Ayn Rand style Virtue of Selfishness type thinking. Nemo , a well-known satanist who tries to contrast LaVey with Rand still recognizes its extreem similarity with Objectivism.

While i assume your average Asatru gothi (male elder) will tend to assume the "real existance" of the dieties. Not just as symbols but as actual living entities, doesnt go along with "man as god", is group/family/world oriented as opposed to Satanisms individualism.... as well as a lot of other issues i think your average and leads , at least in the forms im aware of, to a harmony for-the-good-of-all-mankind type ideals. Which is if not directly rejected , is looked upon with very stern frowns from satanism.

Asatru at least the versions that im aware of, generally rejects the sort of cultural darwinism that LaVey satanism entails.

Then theres the Troth (loyalty) to the Asatru pantheon. Which is virtually impossible to jive with Satansims "the only god is man".

i guess my final answer would be "yes it is difficult" to put these two together. Especially with some of the Asatru stern moral-code issues and collective-good Asatru vs Individual-good me-first satanism.

Both are very interesting regardless. I've been tiptoeing around Satanism and various forms of neo-paganism for many years.

[DarkenedCharm]

Thank you for everyone's input on this topic. It has given me a bit to think about.

[DarkenedCharm]

I commend you in you ability to merge

Here is my symbol.

Quick questing about your view on Thor.

Do you view him predominately as Warring or Smithing?

I am a welder a sort of smith and before that a bot operator that had to swing a hammer all day long there by damaging my wrist elbow and shoulder.

now every time I pick up a hammer I give a silent prayer to the smithing aspect of Thor begging for protection. It works for me zero pain.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

When I look at Thor, I see him as (for all intents and purposes) a warrior. Asatru as a whole has a very "survival of the fittest" ethic to it that attracts me, and in that respect every facet of life has a bit of "battle" to it.

In regards to my symbol, I have just a typical Thor's Hammer that I wear. However, I did work up my own rune, based on the numerology of the runes that I really have no way of reproducing here. It is a combination of Tyr (Creator), Thorn (essentially, shield of protection), and Ansur (Mouth, or Word).

[The_Dark]

It's religion, there is no "right". At least, none we will ever know and still be breathing.

My only words of advise are that perhaps you should not focus on being "anti-christian". I know it's trendy to be anti-christian, but a belief system should be about believing in something, not how much you don't follow the beliefs of something else.