Delisted Endangered Species

[BrassFusion]

How long before I can get a bald eagle hunting permit?

One landowner ready for delisting is Minnesota retiree Edmund Contoski.Contoski, 69, wants to build five log homes on his undeveloped seven-acre property along Lake Sullivan. However, the Endangered Species Act has prohibited development within 330 feet of an active bald eagle's nest on his property -- that covers all of Contoski's usable land.

"Eagles don't pay taxes; I pay taxes," Contoski said. "I'm paying taxes, and I can't do anything with the property."

In 2005, he challenged the Fish and Wildlife Service to make good on its 1999 proposal to delist the bald eagle. He took the agency to court and won. His court battle led to the June 28 delisting.

[Gaf The Horse With Tears]

I highly doubt you will ever get a permit to killa Bald or Golden eagle. It's never been completly legal to do. I really dont see the hype some people are spewing.. not you, others i know and read.. anyway... they are throwing fits because the eagles and other animals are no longer considered endangered. If thier numbers are in a natural range for the enviroment... and it can support it's self.. wtf is the problem?

[Msterbeau]

If he develops all those houses... there's no more natural environment for the Eagle to live in. At least where he's currently at. Will that screw up the Eagles mating/nesting/living habits? I dunno. Seems likely, though. Will that lead to another decline in population? I don't know that either. But I'm pretty sure that's how they got on the list in the first place. I'm sorry for the guy but there's gotta be a balance between preserving species and making a buck.

[phee]

If he develops all those houses... there's no more natural environment for the Eagle to live in. At least where he's currently at. Will that screw up the Eagles mating/nesting/living habits? I dunno. Seems likely, though. Will that lead to another decline in population? I don't know that either. But I'm pretty sure that's how they got on the list in the first place. I'm sorry for the guy but there's gotta be a balance between preserving species and making a buck.

the original killer of Bald Eagles was DDT used after WWII...

[Msterbeau]

the original killer of Bald Eagles was DDT used after WWII...

Ah. Did not know that. We did some brilliant stuff during the last century didn't we?

[Gaf The Horse With Tears]

it was an unforseeable side affect. DDT doesn't go away fast. Bugs eat it or touch it and die. But not always before something eats them. Fish even eat the dead bugs on the water surface. So an eagle comes along and eats a small animal or fish thats been eating the bugs that have DDT in/on them... the Eagle gets DDT in it's blood system. The female's egg shells don't develop properly and the egg she lays can't sustain the embryo inside. No more baby eagles.

[Head Wreck]

and DDT toxifies rather than metabolises. its only ever builds up

[Hellion]

and DDT toxifies rather than metabolises. its only ever builds up

Kinda like what "Agent Orange"(Dioxin),did to Vietnam,and the enviroment there.,now back to the original subject.

[phee]

it was an unforseeable side affect. DDT doesn't go away fast. Bugs eat it or touch it and die. But not always before something eats them. Fish even eat the dead bugs on the water surface. So an eagle comes along and eats a small animal or fish thats been eating the bugs that have DDT in/on them... the Eagle gets DDT in it's blood system. The female's egg shells don't develop properly and the egg she lays can't sustain the embryo inside. No more baby eagles.

That is 100% correct

[mallochai]

Hey guys, remember the buffalo? Aren't they awesome? I'm so glad we brought them back from near extinction.

What's that, you're eating a buffalo burger? Dude, isn't that illegal, are you a poacher? You... you bought it ground up at your super market???

[Gaf The Horse With Tears]

Eagles are not game birds. People don't eat them. People used to shoot them for thier feathers and such. They are still a protected animal even though not endangered. That is, you cant just go kill one.. infact.. you cant kill one. You can drive it off.. as long as what ever you do to make it go away in no way hurts the bird. Even then, you need permission to do that. Sure, some people are assholes and will kill them.. but they did that when they were on the list.

As for Buffalo.. your talking about tame Buffalo. Raised to be food. We could bring the Bison and Buffalo back to pre-eropean migration levels.. but we like to eat bread and other grains. To support thier population natural population levels.. we would need to significantly reduce the amount of farming we do now. We already have reduced farming to levels that make us import grain.. even though we have the land to produce enough grain to feed whole world...

Apples and oranges

[mallochai]

I do understand that it is a completely different bag of beans. I wasn't trying to say that just because they're no longer endangered that we'll start hunting them. Erins comment about the license just gave me a chuckle. I do agree that letting buffalo roam wild could be a serious hazard, both to the buffalo, and to the average american.

As for the eagles, I think it sucks that they were taken off the list because of an action as selfish as land development, but I also think it's a success, since they were deemed to be doing well enough to be taken off the list as a result of said action. Hopefully they can stay lively.

even though we have the land to produce enough grain to feed whole world...

That, on the other hand, is another issue entirely, since an extremely large portion of the grain resources available to the world are used to feed a small number of cows and pigs and chickens so we can have meats and milks and eggs which feed a significant amount less people than the grains would.... etc, etc.

[Homicidalheathen]

This is one time I almost wish a govn'mnt agency would lie. As soon as some people hear this they think its ok to go trophy hunting.

[Gaf The Horse With Tears]

Oh, I know... but if we actually started farming to the full extent of the land.. we could feed the people, clean the air, and feed the animals.. and have grain enough for biofuels. Also, another thing that gets little consideration. Algea. We kill it where ever we find. Did you know that it is a great way to clean the CO2 out of the air? Did you know if we grow shit laods of it and then starve it to death it makes shit loads of of sugars and oils.. which can then be turned into biodiesil? and algea is easy to farm... damn easy.

[BrassFusion]

Unless I'm mistaken, the farming industry as a whole underwent a sort of collapse because A. secondary and service industries became more profitable, B. government efforts to subsidize farming tried to reach too many people without really helping anyone, and C. small to medium non-specialized farms couldn't compete with huge corporate-type farms (like mass dairies). If I'm not stupid and that's all somewhat true, what can we do at this point, in a free market, to encourage our lands to be farmed?

It would be a hell of a time to open a new industry. The world could use the output, like you said, Mark, and America could use the jobs. I think I may have a solution...

We white folk have forgotten how to farm effectively. When the pilgrims came to the New World in 1620, they didn't have effective techniques for the land here, either. So where did they learn from? That's right! The Indians! But then we killed them all. However, the Indians did get a couple genetic footholds down before we wiped out the ones from California to the New York Island- the Inuit population, and the Latin Americas, mostly mixing with Spanish conquistador lines.

We need to re-learn farming from the Mexicans. Or just hire them to do it for pesos per day.

OKAY. Sorry for the jack, but it's my thread, dammit. <) and the first part of this post, before I proposed a "solution," was actually serious.

[Gaf The Horse With Tears]

I never went into why so many people stopped farming... but yeah.. your sorta on the money... There is more to it though... A big problem was that we can produce so much grain, dairy, fruits and vegies that we cant get it to the market before it rots. The other side affect is Supply and demand. We can produce more food than there is a demand for. The USA used to be called "The Bread Basket of the World" because we have so much fertile farm land.

The government started subsidizing and paying farmers to not farm so that they could sell what they did produce at a high enough price to make it worth it to plant the fields next year. This caused a social issue to get involded. The farm kids had time to do something other than work. They started having fun. They moved off the farms and into the citys. People have forgotten how to farm. Most people have no idea what it takes to make that loaf of bread they eat at lunch. Really... Do you know how to grow wheat? Can you seperate the chaff? How exactlly do you turn it into flour... now the hard part... how does that white fluffy stuff become a loaf a bread...

[crunchy_pickle (5)]

Firstly, I wanted to state that easting buffalo meat is not illegal. The meat does not come from wild buffalo, but raised buffalo. Also, I think that it's pretty vain to attempt to prevent the extinction of any species. 99% of the species that have graced this planet are now extinct and one day we will be too. Global warming itself is a natural process, and whether we speed the coming of the next ice age or not it will come. We have survived a lot of catastrophies, however this planet will be here long after we are gone. This is my scientific viewpoint. We're actually due for a "supposed" near miss from a comet collision within the next few years (I can't remember the exact year). We are not the keepers of this planet. If you're a theist, then God is. If you're an atheist, well, this world doesn't need a keeper. It will destroy us, or we will destroy ourselves, and that is the only thing that matters. Everyday, we are an endangered species, and putting other animals before yourself, enjoying life, and being the best person you can be, is foolishness.

[ZhukovCodeslinger]

I want the eagles to stay on the protected list even if they are not "endangered". There is no reason to decriminalize hurting them (unless they live on every rooftop and become annoying.... and I dont see that happening, ever.

[BrassFusion]

It's still criminal to fuck with the eagles. They're just not given precedence over other stable species any longer.

And Pickle... at the rate we're going, we'll be out of seafood by 2050. If I'm still alive, that'll certainly affect the quality of my life. My grandchildren's, too.

edited for clarification

[Medea]

Did you know that the Turkey was almost our national bird? That's what Ben Franklin wanted. I wonder... if it had turned out that way, perhaps then we'd be eating bald eagle for thanksgiving?

[Gaf The Horse With Tears]

I doubt it. An eagle is a raptor. A carnivore. We don't eat carnivores. The flesh is tough, there is very litte of it and it dosen't taste good.

[crunchy_pickle (5)]

It's still criminal to fuck with the eagles. They're just not given precedence over other stable species any longer.

And Pickle... at the rate we're going, we'll be out of seafood by 2050. If I'm still alive, that'll certainly affect the quality of my life. My grandchildren's, too.

edited for clarification

Well, despite how much I love seafood, I truly adore your optimism. In all honesty I wouldn't worry about the future too much. By 2050, I expect that what few survivors there are, if any will have an abundant supply of replenished fish. I'm sure you know well that the majority of the world's fish are caught in Alaska. While, I have my doubts as to whether or not the fishing industry will still be as productive as it is today in Alaska (if in fact Alaska is still inhabited), I really don't think if our species hasn't met it's maker yet that our numbers will be great enough to make any "real" impact on the longevity of fish.

On the other hand, there's also the possibility that either the comet I mentioned earlier, or an ice age resulting from our negligent hastening of nature's cycle will destroy us long before the coming days arrive. That would pretty much be his "style" anyways, considering the days that followed the great deluge. Then again, what would be the point of blind faith, if everybody knew?

I really didn't intend on bringing my faith into this topic though, because there are plenty of "scientific" explanations that support our extinction in the next 25 to 40 years. I'm sure however, that when rational minds no longer prevail, and the wisdom of this world becomes foolishness, there will still be those among us that still believe in a lot of tragic coincidences. I used to think it was just pride, but more and more I think that opening our eyes in the garden gave birth to one of the most prominent epidemic philosophies to ever enlighten us with the power of darkness and destroy our intelligence as well as distort our concept of reality. I'll believe it when I see it aka seeing is believing. Maybe we could honor one Friday per month and have a DGN meetup at Red Lobster or maybe a "good" restaurant somewhere. Eat it while it's hot! : Sounds like fun to me anyways....

Did you know that the Turkey was almost our national bird? That's what Ben Franklin wanted. I wonder... if it had turned out that way, perhaps then we'd be eating bald eagle for thanksgiving?

Probably not, considering Thanksgiving was at least 100 years before Franklin was even a twinkle in his mother's eyes....

I doubt it. An eagle is a raptor. A carnivore. We don't eat carnivores. The flesh is tough, there is very litte of it and it dosen't taste good.

Dude!! What planet do you live on? Have you ever ate bear, dog, cat, or shark?

[Gaf The Horse With Tears]

Probably not, considering Thanksgiving was at least 100 years before Franklin was even a twinkle in his mother's eyes....

What exactly is your point? What we eat as a Traditional thanks giving meal and what was actually eaten at "the first thanksgiving" have little to do with each other.

I have eaten bear, but it is not a staple in the average americans diet. Nor are any of the other animals you mentioned. A bear is an omnivore btw, not a carnivore.

[BrassFusion]

Well, despite how much I love seafood, I truly adore your optimism. In all honesty I wouldn't worry about the future too much. By 2050, I expect that what few survivors there are, if any will have an abundant supply of replenished fish. I'm sure you know well that the majority of the world's fish are caught in Alaska. While, I have my doubts as to whether or not the fishing industry will still be as productive as it is today in Alaska (if in fact Alaska is still inhabited), I really don't think if our species hasn't met it's maker yet that our numbers will be great enough to make any "real" impact on the longevity of fish.

On the other hand, there's also the possibility that either the comet I mentioned earlier, or an ice age resulting from our negligent hastening of nature's cycle will destroy us long before the coming days arrive. That would pretty much be his "style" anyways, considering the days that followed the great deluge. Then again, what would be the point of blind faith, if everybody knew?

I really didn't intend on bringing my faith into this topic though, because there are plenty of "scientific" explanations that support our extinction in the next 25 to 40 years. I'm sure however, that when rational minds no longer prevail, and the wisdom of this world becomes foolishness, there will still be those among us that still believe in a lot of tragic coincidences. I used to think it was just pride, but more and more I think that opening our eyes in the garden gave birth to one of the most prominent epidemic philosophies to ever enlighten us with the power of darkness and destroy our intelligence as well as distort our concept of reality. I'll believe it when I see it aka seeing is believing. Maybe we could honor one Friday per month and have a DGN meetup at Red Lobster or maybe a "good" restaurant somewhere. Eat it while it's hot! : Sounds like fun to me anyways....

Probably not, considering Thanksgiving was at least 100 years before Franklin was even a twinkle in his mother's eyes....

Dude!! What planet do you live on? Have you ever ate bear, dog, cat, or shark?

if the US had really embraced space exploration and self-contained research facilities, extinction would be a non-issue.

i'm confident that we'll have self-supporting moon colonies before the cataclysm on earth that will uh render us all extinct.

(you read the left behind series, don't you? tell me you've played the video game. it looks so bad!!)

[crunchy_pickle (5)]

if the US had really embraced space exploration and self-contained research facilities, extinction would be a non-issue.

i'm confident that we'll have self-supporting moon colonies before the cataclysm on earth that will uh render us all extinct.

(you read the left behind series, don't you? tell me you've played the video game. it looks so bad!!)

I haven't gotten a chance to yet unfortunately. Usually, when I do get a chance to read it's rarely fiction, but I do really want to read that sometime if not for any other reason then what others have told me about it.

What exactly is your point? What we eat as a Traditional thanks giving meal and what was actually eaten at "the first thanksgiving" have little to do with each other.

I have eaten bear, but it is not a staple in the average americans diet. Nor are any of the other animals you mentioned. A bear is an omnivore btw, not a carnivore.

All bears are omnivores? That's interesting.... Most Americans eat cats and dogs dude. At least most eat Chinese food, and if it doesn't look like chicken and it doesn't taste like chicken, well you know the rest....