And So On That Note....

[torn asunder]

TA - OK. Thats looks fine on paper. In practice it sucks.

Why keep it so secret? If Member A and Member B are having a discussion and it somehow degrades into a flame war... as it so often does when ever Member B is involved... Both party's are involved. Right? They are both in the discussion..

nevermind...

We have talked about this before... the last time someone was baited by BF into a stupid argument and ended up getting a warning for it. Maybe you will see the patteren some day.

i see the pattern to which you're referring, but it's your responsibility to *not* be baited - not mine, not anyone else's... *you* are responsible for your own actions. if you allow someone to behave in that way without "retaliation", they will be the ones to be taken to task, so to speak. as for openness, it's none of your, or anyone else's business, whether anyone else is talked to about their issues. it's between the mod staff, and the poster. and to be bluntly honest, i'm getting tired of having to explain this time and time again...

[Msterbeau]

TA - OK. Thats looks fine on paper. In practice it sucks.

Why keep it so secret? If Member A and Member B are having a discussion and it somehow degrades into a flame war... as it so often does when ever Member B is involved... Both party's are involved. Right? They are both in the discussion..

nevermind...

We have talked about this before... the last time someone was baited by BF into a stupid argument and ended up getting a warning for it. Maybe you will see the patteren some day.

I was thinking about this earlier today and I have to agree. What's wrong with more transparency? On the face of it, the "mature" thing to do is to keep things off line and between the concerned parties. I'm not sure it works best in a forum situation, though. It's what people DON'T know that causes so much drama, and bad feelings. I'm not saying everything with the functioning of the boards HAS to be in full view, but I would suggest looking at all the business that goes on behind the scenes and see if some could be done more openly. Stuff that involves the sort of thing Steven's talking about are a good start.

[Fierce Critter]

I was thinking about this earlier today and I have to agree. What's wrong with more transparency? On the face of it, the "mature" thing to do is to keep things off line and between the concerned parties. I'm not sure it works best in a forum situation, though. It's what people DON'T know that causes so much drama, and bad feelings. I'm not saying everything with the functioning of the boards HAS to be in full view, but I would suggest looking at all the business that goes on behind the scenes and see if some could be done more openly. Stuff that involves the sort of thing Steven's talking about are a good start.

MEGA DITTOS

[Fierce Critter]

i see the pattern to which you're referring, but it's your responsibility to *not* be baited - not mine, not anyone else's... *you* are responsible for your own actions.

Hard to practice when it happens again...

...and again...

...and again...

...and again.

they will be the ones to be taken to task, so to speak.

But they never are. And they are free to do it again...

...and again...

...and again...

...and again.

Even if they are being 'taken to task', it's not "taking".

i see the pattern to which you're referring,

Shouldn't it be staff's responsibility to recognize such patterns and do something about it?

It seems all we get told over and over again is "this is how it is, deal with it."

Hard to enjoy what the board is here for if we're constantly "dealing" with something.

[Gaf The Horse With Tears]

Not my business... really? Are you sure? I thought I had these rights things too. I could be wrong. If someone assaults me, I have the Right to seem them prosecuted, so to speak. As has anyone I assault. The accused also has the right to know his/her accuser.

I know, this is a forum, not the USA.

But, NOYFB doesn't cut it sometimes. How the hell are we supposed to ever see the fairness. You may talk to both people... but they don't know that... they didn't witness it in anyway. All they have is your word, and your "yelling" at them. That's a way to make someone feel singled out. That really pacifies things.

There must be a way you could moderate a discussion about a problem between members. I'm not sure what features the baord has, but theer must be someway you could have a thread that only modes and a given list of people to see. Say... Steven and I get into a right proper pissing match... and the mods decide it's time to step in. Create a thread about this problem that only mods, Steven and I have access too. Chastise us. Let us respond and possibly come to either a resolution or decide the matter just needs to be dropped. Something like that.

[phee]

*Phee tries to figure out how to "man up" and what that means*

[BrassFusion]

God damn. I was hoping this wouldn't be necessary, that unconcerned parties (the lot of you) would stay out of what was ultimately not your business, but fine.

Steven and I received the exact same pm. It's still in my inbox, but I won't copy/paste it because if the author wanted the rest of you to see it, he'd have sent it to everybody.

It basically said, "Hey guys, lay off the insults."

No one fired him from his job, no one killed his puppy. He was just reminded (along with me!) to keep the discussion polite and impersonal.

What's the big fuckin' deal already?

[Gaf The Horse With Tears]

I don't think anyone was trying to get the specifics on this particular instance... just the ones they may be involved in. See, most people don't know how the other person is being talked to. You may be told they are being talked to, but if you ask if they are in trouble too, you get NOYFB.

It's a "Am I being persecuted?" thing.

[freydis]

*Phee tries to figure out how to "man up" and what that means*

<begin threadjack>

Maybe it involves equipment and costumes?

</threadjack>

[BrassFusion]

In response to Mark cuz I type too slow and think too hard:

No, it's a childish thing. Trying to make sure the other bullies from the schoolyard got in trouble, too. I've been guilty of that, myself.

I'm sure, however, that the mods have had to put up with a lot more shit related to people complaining about how I'm not being publicly reprimanded and that isn't FAAAAAIIIIIR to everyone I "bully." I pity them that, but I think it's bullshit that it's added to the "BrassFusion" permanent record. I know I don't have a choice, and hell, they haven't kicked me off the board for it, so whatever. I'll live. But seriously people, where's all this pointless spite coming from? If we put our heads together, we could be using this to solve the energy crisis!

If you don't like what I have to say, and you don't feel the mods deal severe enough punishment for the HORRIFIC THINGS I DO TO PEOPLE, then put me on ignore.

And if it's important enough to y'all, in the future, I will make a new thread detailing about how a mod (I won't name names, however, no point in that!) chided me for my immature actions. Then can commence the stoning or whatever the fuck will make you feel better.

[Troy Spiral (13)]

Topic post edited along with some of the follow up commentary, and as always an army of PMs.

Anyhow:

1. No matter what system is used there will always be complaints that "my" (whoever speaking) idea is better.

Believe me there's an insane amount of thought that has gone into what to do about situations on the board, rarely is anything black & white and often the armchair quarterbacks dont have to take into account all the factors that a moderator would. They just have their pet factors that they put into what "they would do" and it seems a lot more simple than it is.

2. In particular a LOT of people are talked to / disciplined.

Many "problem posters" are very close to being banned / set to pre-approval only. Maybe not as fast as you (whoever is reading this) might like, or to the level of harshness whoever is reading this might like. Almost always both or multiple parties at the same time are talked to. The harshness of whatever the "talk" is about, or what is exactly done is always going to be a judgment call of the moderators, unfortunately.

I get exhausted sometimes with all the time i spend talking to , suspending people etc.

3. Having a public list of recent hangings on a message board?

Long been known to just cause more drama than it solves. We have enough headaches without every armchair quarterback on the board second guessing every decision that is made. "Discipline" for the most part will continue to be private. Although I've long thought that we might use the warning level system more extensively and make it visible to all posters, but this is a complicated issue.

There are rare cases when publicly saying X was done about Y would be a good idea and it has been done in the past. There are a huge number of factors to take into account. Its rarely as simple as "this one idea here is the best".

[Scary Guy]

Hey I keep an open mind, as long as it's a logical one.

[Scales]

Steven, I never talked to you before, but your posts about sociology and community I found very interesting. You also remind me of my mother, who is an extremely nice woman; but we do go back and forth a lot with religion since I don't want her teaching my little brother any of it, though she finds it important and believes that it's her right to be able to make that choice. I have a lot of friends and relatives who are Christians and Catholics, I've even prayed with them before meals now just to be polite, it's their traditions and I choose to respect them.

I don't think anyone here who isn't a Christian has anything against Christians, this is a misconception to me. There is probably a great deal of hatred for the beliefs and ideologies, not the people who accept them. I think the biggest reason is religion is business, a political motivation, and nets kids (I apologize for being blunt, but let me explain). I was once a Christian and had no doubts in any of it.

You grow up from a child to an adult being told a large ideology is true, and this ideology is practically pounded into your head as truth from your friends, family, and most of the people around you. You are confident in this beliefset, and all of the people you love give you more confidence in it. With any belief, it's as if being walled into this interpretation of the world because of the rules, and your with a huge group of other believers enforcing the rules. Then over time, you begin to make realizations, or lose faith (doesn't matter how you want to interpret this, just try to understand).

An ex-xtian gets to the point where they feel that everything they've been told was lies, the world is actually a very cold place with nothing but questions, and many of the people an ex-xtian loves will never, ever listen to a large part of them that now isn't confined by those beliefs.

Whether your a Christian reading this or not, to change the perceptions you've been brought up in takes a tremendous amount of inner strength; your effectively physcologically scarring yourself for life. It's not a "pitty me I'm different" thing, it's a "this world is truly a growing apathetic nightmare". I still use word phrases/curse words with the name "God" in them, especially when in pain, it's been conditioned into me by growing up in religion and I'm still trying unsuccessfully to stop myself when it happens. I think everyone can agree that looking at the world from an Atheist viewpoint is extremely depressing- all that's left is the simple fact that there are and will always be people who choose that viewpoint, no matter how painful it is or will continue to be, it's what we feel is truth.

It's my personal belief that the most rational people will try to look at the world as close to reality as they can get it, and in doing so, emotionally destroy themselves; things are messed up, it's the way it is. There's nothing wrong with it, a rational person can't take their life because it would simply only give ammunition for what they consider nonsense. It just seems with all the turmoil in the world that a person most sided with rationality would be in pain, they would not have a god, and they would constantly be trying to pull out inner strength.

I personally think that the less you allow the world to condition you, the stronger you become; if you have to suffer you'll advertise your perception of the world in a way that attacks the beliefs, ideas, and generalizations that made you suffer- it's human nature, and I find it beautiful and "open-minded", while many find it the exact opposite.

With all that said, I'm not perfect, but I don't hold grudges or start petty arguments. I don't ignore anyone either, I do as much as I can to look at posts towards me on any board that are seemingly negative as an opportunity to craft a post that dissipates negativity. If someone isn't on equal terms with me, I take a step back and cool until I figure out a way to fix things. Online it takes maybe ten minutes, but in real life there are people and situations where it's taken me a lot longer- or they're even now still up in the air. Just my rambling..

[Medea]

@Steven - You have PM from me.

@Scales - I highly disagree with your premise that introspection that leads to a change in your beliefs is "psychologically scarring", nor do I believe it leads you to come to the conclusion that the world is an apathetic nightmare. I don't disagree that this might be what -you- may have went through, but for myself, the experience was much different, and I know it was for Steven as well.

For myself, I grew up with Catholicism, and in fact went to Catholic schools from kindergarten to grade 12. However, there came a time around when I was fourteen, when I started looking into different religions, and I found one that more closely fit the beliefs that I had been holding for a while, that seemed in disjunction with Catholicism. I found something that made -sense- to me, and honestly, that gave me a tremendous sense of relief. I found a tool to help me lead a good life. For some it's religion, whichever one they find suits them, for some, it's simply a general sense of ethics and morals.

For those with any religion, it is true that they have themselves and their own code of ethics and perceptions of reality to rely on, but for those who chose -not- to believe in anything, is sort of a belief in and of itself. I'm fairly certain that not all atheists are quite so... lost as you perhaps seem to be (forgive me if I am misjudging on that point).

As for Steven (and please forgive me Steven for speaking for you, I'll edit/delete this part if you wish), he is a re-Christian. He once followed without really understanding what it really meant. Then he lost his faith for a long time, did a lot of things that were not good for him, physically or spiritually, and then, through his own choice and introspection, came to the decision that a return to Christianity was the right thing for him.

Introspection that leads to you thinking hard about your path in life and CHOOSING it, rather than it being something that your recite by rote, is a GOOD thing, not a bad thing, no matter which path you end up taking.

[Homicidalheathen]

The bullying will never stop on this board. I have seen things I thought I would never see. There are some real creeps out there. But to let a disagreement like religeon scare ya away.......screw that. Grow a tough skin.

[pharoh]

The bullying will never stop on this board. I have seen things I thought I would never see. There are some real creeps out there. But to let a disagreement like religeon scare ya away.......screw that. Grow a tough skin.

You totally don't get it do you. This is nothing about religion.

[Homicidalheathen]

As for Steven (and please forgive me Steven for speaking for you, I'll edit/delete this part if you wish), he is a re-Christian. He once followed without really understanding what it really meant. Then he lost his faith for a long time, did a lot of things that were not good for him, physically or spiritually, and then, through his own choice and introspection, came to the decision that a return to Christianity was the right thing for him.

Looks like it is to me.

Or censorship......

[pharoh]

As for Steven (and please forgive me Steven for speaking for you, I'll edit/delete this part if you wish), he is a re-Christian. He once followed without really understanding what it really meant. Then he lost his faith for a long time, did a lot of things that were not good for him, physically or spiritually, and then, through his own choice and introspection, came to the decision that a return to Christianity was the right thing for him.

Looks like it is to me.

Or censorship......

Censorship of what? Have you followed this thread at all?

[torn asunder]

well, that's going to get us nowhere... topic closed...