And Yes Bush Really Wants To Know Everything

[Hellion]

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20070919/ap_on_...h_eavesdropping

even though it was intended for foreign tourists,I would not doubt it will be used against

people born and raised here too.

[machine]

So are you saying that you don't want our govt. to know what others are doing in the interest of our security (aka spying)?

[Msterbeau]

Not without reasonable protection from abuse. As always... he uses fear tactics to gain support for questionable legislation, or to expand executive powers.

[Gaf The Horse With Tears]

Fear tactics... I disagree. I mean... sure, he says that without these tools it will be that much harder to stop people from flying more planes into buildings in the future... How would you propose he word that to not be a fear tactic? I mean, thats the whole point of security. Keeping bad people from doing bad things to the innocent... How can you justify wanting a program to do that without bringing up that fact?

[Destroit]

Personally I really don't give a shit. If he wants to spy on my myspace so that he can see me make plans for the weekend, go right ahead. If he wants to see on my debit card that I bought a 5 dollar pizza at Little Caesars, he can knock himself right the fuck out. Wants to hear me calling my mom and telling her about my day? Tap my damn line, who gives a shit?

Personally I'd rather have the government know everything I stated above then well...you know...be dead. Seems like a pretty common sense answer to me, no?

It's not like the govt could catch you doing anything else wrong. If you buy drugs, hookers, illegal anything...you use CASH. Untraceable. They'd be none the wiser.

SO....as long as you're not on the internet/phone/etc saying "Hmmm well on Tuesday I'm THINKIN I might fly a plane into the RenCen" or "HEY! I got a kilo of cocaine I need to get rid of, any buyers?" than I think you should be just fine.

[Scary Guy]

Personally I really don't give a shit. If he wants to spy on my myspace so that he can see me make plans for the weekend, go right ahead. If he wants to see on my debit card that I bought a 5 dollar pizza at Little Caesars, he can knock himself right the fuck out. Wants to hear me calling my mom and telling her about my day? Tap my damn line, who gives a shit?

Personally I'd rather have the government know everything I stated above then well...you know...be dead. Seems like a pretty common sense answer to me, no?

It's not like the govt could catch you doing anything else wrong. If you buy drugs, hookers, illegal anything...you use CASH. Untraceable. They'd be none the wiser.

SO....as long as you're not on the internet/phone/etc saying "Hmmm well on Tuesday I'm THINKIN I might fly a plane into the RenCen" or "HEY! I got a kilo of cocaine I need to get rid of, any buyers?" than I think you should be just fine.

That's not the issue, it's a right to privacy issue and a direct violation of the 4th amendment.

The right of the people to be secure in their persons, houses, papers, and effects, against unreasonable searches and seizures, shall not be violated, and no Warrants shall issue, but upon probable cause, supported by Oath or affirmation, and particularly describing the place to be searched, and the persons or things to be seized.

Granted you can say this doesn't cover electronic communications or things they couldn't foresee back then, however there are things that do (current scope of wiretap power). http://www.cdt.org/wiretap/wiretap_overview.html

This doesn't even take into account data mining for what you read, watch, hear, do, say, THINK, etc... At this rate we'll hit 1984 sometime between 2010 and 2012.

But you're right, they no longer need to hunt for our information. We're giving it to them freely through our blogs, social networking profiles, websites, unencrypted communications, etc...

Then when they finally get rid of paper money and switch everything to credit, or chip and track everything. Then you won't even be able to buy illegal drugs, hookers, guns, etc... They'll track every aspect of your lives and when you don't meet up to standards they label you a "terrorist" or "enemy combatant" and haul you off to a work camp for "reeducation".

In short, not caring means you're giving in to them monitoring and controlling your lives (because controlling is the next step).

[angusfergus]

That's not the issue, it's a right to privacy issue and a direct violation of the 4th amendment.

Granted you can say this doesn't cover electronic communications or things they couldn't foresee back then, however there are things that do (current scope of wiretap power). http://www.cdt.org/wiretap/wiretap_overview.html

This doesn't even take into account data mining for what you read, watch, hear, do, say, THINK, etc... At this rate we'll hit 1984 sometime between 2010 and 2012.

But you're right, they no longer need to hunt for our information. We're giving it to them freely through our blogs, social networking profiles, websites, unencrypted communications, etc...

Then when they finally get rid of paper money and switch everything to credit, or chip and track everything. Then you won't even be able to buy illegal drugs, hookers, guns, etc... They'll track every aspect of your lives and when you don't meet up to standards they label you a "terrorist" or "enemy combatant" and haul you off to a work camp for "reeducation".

In short, not caring means you're giving in to them monitoring and controlling your lives (because controlling is the next step).

Check this out:

The Foreign Intelligence Surveillance Act governs when the government must obtain warrants for eavesdropping from a secret intelligence court. This year's update — approved just before Congress' August break — allows more efficient interceptions of foreign communications.

Under the new law, the government can eavesdrop without a court order on communications conducted by a person reasonably believed to be outside the U.S., even if an American is on one end of the conversation — so long as that American is not the intended focus or target of the surveillance.

The very wording of the law states that an American in America CANNOT be the target of the eavesdropping. Yes, if you are on an overseas call you 'might' be listened to. But guess what? Even if you said 'I'm gonna go smoke some crack and shoot some smack' they couldn't do shit. Why? Because if they tried to use that as evidence against you, it would be thrown out in court as inadmissible due to improper collection. And btw...if you use a cellphone or VoIP...all of your calls are recorded ANYWAY. That's simply how the technology works.

[sass_in_the_pants]

Then when they finally get rid of paper money and switch everything to credit, or chip and track everything. Then you won't even be able to buy illegal drugs, hookers, guns, etc...

I won't even be able to buy illegal drugs, hookers or guns? What is this place coming to?

[asphyxian_doll]

That's not the issue, it's a right to privacy issue and a direct violation of the 4th amendment.

Granted you can say this doesn't cover electronic communications or things they couldn't foresee back then, however there are things that do (current scope of wiretap power). http://www.cdt.org/wiretap/wiretap_overview.html

This doesn't even take into account data mining for what you read, watch, hear, do, say, THINK, etc... At this rate we'll hit 1984 sometime between 2010 and 2012.

But you're right, they no longer need to hunt for our information. We're giving it to them freely through our blogs, social networking profiles, websites, unencrypted communications, etc...

Then when they finally get rid of paper money and switch everything to credit, or chip and track everything. Then you won't even be able to buy illegal drugs, hookers, guns, etc... They'll track every aspect of your lives and when you don't meet up to standards they label you a "terrorist" or "enemy combatant" and haul you off to a work camp for "reeducation".

In short, not caring means you're giving in to them monitoring and controlling your lives (because controlling is the next step).

very fucking true

[machine]

Break out the tin hats.

[know_buddy_kares]

Break out the tin hats.

better than drinking the koolaid

[angusfergus]

better than drinking the koolaid

Hmm....I'm a moderate and I don't subscribe to either side of 'government rules!!' or 'government is evil!!' regarding government in general or any specific administration...so does that mean I drink kool-aid from a tin hat?

[know_buddy_kares]

Hmm....I'm a moderate and I don't subscribe to either side of 'government rules!!' or 'government is evil!!' regarding government in general or any specific administration...so does that mean I drink kool-aid from a tin hat?

heheh... i liked that lmao. Sure why not. I merely said the kool-aid comment to be a smart ass but what the hell, lets go with it lol

[Scary Guy]

OK what's worse, being too paranoid or knowing you should be?

This is supposed to be the land of the free. But when they start throwing out your freedoms and start ignoring the constitution for "security", just so people can feel "safer" it makes me weep for the country. I hate both parties because each one just wants to take away your rights. With the republicans it's a thought issue. You can't think this or that or live the way you want to and democrats are the same as communists. With the Democrats it's always "for the children" or "for the good of the people" and all republicans are Nazi scum. Better get rid of those guns before you hurt someone or yourself.

In reality there is just one party that passes power back and forth to and from one another. Their major goal is to give you the illusion of choice and make you feel like you're a part of the republic, that you have some control. They take away your freedoms and put the fear in you that if you step out of line you'll be labeled a terrorist, sex offender, insane so you don't question authority and obey orders. On top of that you'll go to hell for it as well and burn for all eternity (if you believe in that stuff). Media is shoved in your fact for subliminal messaging and to display propaganda, while distracting you from reality (it's in there but it's saturated with crap). Oh and don't think that just because you're in a counter-culture you're safe either, where do you think Evanescence came form? Keeping up with the Joneses is given off as the way to be happy, to out do your neighbor. Spending every dime you have just to prove that in some way you're better than they are and vice-versa. Insurance is a scam, this is why health care will never be privatized.

The two things that the religious and political groups want from you are your money and your obedience.

I think I'm done ranting for now.

[machine]

OK what's worse, being too paranoid or knowing you should be?

This is supposed to be the land of the free. But when they start throwing out your freedoms and start ignoring the constitution for "security", just so people can feel "safer" it makes me weep for the country. I hate both parties because each one just wants to take away your rights. With the republicans it's a thought issue. You can't think this or that or live the way you want to and democrats are the same as communists. With the Democrats it's always "for the children" or "for the good of the people" and all republicans are Nazi scum. Better get rid of those guns before you hurt someone or yourself.

In reality there is just one party that passes power back and forth to and from one another. Their major goal is to give you the illusion of choice and make you feel like you're a part of the republic, that you have some control. They take away your freedoms and put the fear in you that if you step out of line you'll be labeled a terrorist, sex offender, insane so you don't question authority and obey orders. On top of that you'll go to hell for it as well and burn for all eternity (if you believe in that stuff). Media is shoved in your fact for subliminal messaging and to display propaganda, while distracting you from reality (it's in there but it's saturated with crap). Oh and don't think that just because you're in a counter-culture you're safe either, where do you think Evanescence came form? Keeping up with the Joneses is given off as the way to be happy, to out do your neighbor. Spending every dime you have just to prove that in some way you're better than they are and vice-versa. Insurance is a scam, this is why health care will never be privatized.

The two things that the religious and political groups want from you are your money and your obedience.

I think I'm done ranting for now.

This is the first anti-gov post of yours that i have read that didn't contain any tin-hat feeling. I enjoyed reading this, and I see your points.

Good Post

[Destroit]

OK what's worse, being too paranoid or knowing you should be?

This is supposed to be the land of the free. But when they start throwing out your freedoms and start ignoring the constitution for "security", just so people can feel "safer" it makes me weep for the country. I hate both parties because each one just wants to take away your rights. With the republicans it's a thought issue. You can't think this or that or live the way you want to and democrats are the same as communists. With the Democrats it's always "for the children" or "for the good of the people" and all republicans are Nazi scum. Better get rid of those guns before you hurt someone or yourself.

In reality there is just one party that passes power back and forth to and from one another. Their major goal is to give you the illusion of choice and make you feel like you're a part of the republic, that you have some control. They take away your freedoms and put the fear in you that if you step out of line you'll be labeled a terrorist, sex offender, insane so you don't question authority and obey orders. On top of that you'll go to hell for it as well and burn for all eternity (if you believe in that stuff). Media is shoved in your fact for subliminal messaging and to display propaganda, while distracting you from reality (it's in there but it's saturated with crap). Oh and don't think that just because you're in a counter-culture you're safe either, where do you think Evanescence came form? Keeping up with the Joneses is given off as the way to be happy, to out do your neighbor. Spending every dime you have just to prove that in some way you're better than they are and vice-versa. Insurance is a scam, this is why health care will never be privatized.

The two things that the religious and political groups want from you are your money and your obedience.

I think I'm done ranting for now.

I will agree with Machine on this one, good points in this post. To make it clear, I'm not totally non-paranoid either, I'm not totally stupid. Hitler for instance, he rose to power because people buried their heads in the sand and turned the other way. So I do know that it CAN happen...but alot of the "government is against us" blah blah stuff is usually people who are really bored, love to feel important (by thinking they know stuff that is "important"), love to smell their own shit (full of themselves), and seriously just need to get a life. However, yeah there is cause for concern when the government clearly violates our rights. I don't think we're going to be like 1984 by the year 2012 or anything...but as Americans we should be at least on the LOOKOUT for shit like that happening. For instance...if Bush were somehow able to weasel his way back into power this election or something along those lines, even if it's in a very suttle way that were to seem "innocent/necessary" etc...that to me would be a cause for concern. As of right now...the Patriot Act isn't. They could have so easily been abusing the power OF the Patriot Act thus far...and to me...really haven't yet. So I dunno, to me actions speak louder than words, sure they have the power to abuse the law but I haven't had any direct proof that they have. (Except for the Patriot Act in itself, which at this point I'm not too concerned with, but that doesn't mean I won't be in the future if it escalates...)

[know_buddy_kares]

I will agree with Machine on this one, good points in this post. To make it clear, I'm not totally non-paranoid either, I'm not totally stupid. Hitler for instance, he rose to power because people buried their heads in the sand and turned the other way. So I do know that it CAN happen...but alot of the "government is against us" blah blah stuff is usually people who are really bored, love to feel important (by thinking they know stuff that is "important"), love to smell their own shit (full of themselves), and seriously just need to get a life. However, yeah there is cause for concern when the government clearly violates our rights. I don't think we're going to be like 1984 by the year 2012 or anything...but as Americans we should be at least on the LOOKOUT for shit like that happening. For instance...if Bush were somehow able to weasel his way back into power this election or something along those lines, even if it's in a very suttle way that were to seem "innocent/necessary" etc...that to me would be a cause for concern. As of right now...the Patriot Act isn't. They could have so easily been abusing the power OF the Patriot Act thus far...and to me...really haven't yet. So I dunno, to me actions speak louder than words, sure they have the power to abuse the law but I haven't had any direct proof that they have. (Except for the Patriot Act in itself, which at this point I'm not too concerned with, but that doesn't mean I won't be in the future if it escalates...)

well look at it like this... it's like a game of chess... you wanna set all your pieces in the right spots before making your move...

that's to be used as an analogy only... the fact that things are getting set up to make this possible is a cause of concern to me.

[Scary Guy]

It should be a cause for concern of most US citizens as well. However most are too stupid to realize what is happening. I'll agree with Machine that there are a lot of idiots in the tinfoil hat community as well. But like I said it's better to be overly paranoid than not paranoid at all. Although again all things in moderation, paranoia is no exception. Research sources before you come to conclusions and never taken anyone's word as fact unless it is backed up by proof. Also beware of the well paid scientists and their "junk science" and "disinformation" tactics.

Also to be clear I'm not actually anti-government. I am however against the current administration and a lot of things that the government has done. Government is a good thing when it works with you and doesn't try to control you.