Sales Tax On Services

[angusfergus]

Half of the state lives in the Detroit area. It stands to reason that most of the state money should go into the Detroit area. However, It's simply insane that Novi residents can live in Novi thanks to Detroit, but pay not a single red cent DIRECTLY to Detroit.

Novi has as much to do with Detroit as Belleville does with Ann Arbor.

[Gaf The Horse With Tears]

Why should Novi residents pay Detroit to live in Novi? That makes no sense at all.

[ttogreh]

It does not make sense for Bellevile to pay a tax to Ann Arbor because Belleville does not rely on the centralized population of Ann Arbor for revenue, and Ann Arbor is on sound financial footing due to the income from the University and its several industries that require a skilled work force. Of course, Pfizer is leaving, so...

However, Novi, Farmington Hills, Grosse Pointe Farms, Rochester Hills, et cetera rely on the emptying and failing Detroit.

The suburbs have been killing the city center for almost fifty years. Something has to change.

[Gaf The Horse With Tears]

So, you want to tax people for wanting to live in the sub-burbs...

and you somehow think the sub-burbs are killing the inner-city... even though the sub-burbs are a creation of the inner city...

You logic fails me.

[ttogreh]

The logic of getting away from it all yet adding thirty to forty five minutes to one's commute fails me. The creation of upper middle class enclaves on the fringes of the city center in the fifties and sixties were out-and-out racist acts. The jobs, culture centers, and utter reason for the wealth needed to allow white flight of the city center... need to be maintained.

The rot is finally making its way to the inner suburbs, and unless an equitable taxation scheme is worked out, it will continue to spread.

Hey, the Battle Creek/Grand Rapids and Lansing metroplexes can't subsidize the suburbs forever. Indeed, people might start vacating BC/GR for Chicago if things continue.

The single business tax was killing job creation. The people of Michigan got rid of it, so Granholm filled the hole in the budget with cuts and tax increases. However, the slow rot of the city center is still happening. Maybe if a rebound in jobs can come about now with a balanced budget and a more equitable taxing scheme is in place, maybe the rot can be ignored for a few more years.

Ignored. Not fixed. The only thing that will fix it is if the suburbs start paying into the city. People in Bad Axe and Ironwood should not be asked to support the lifestyle of Novi residents.

[Gaf The Horse With Tears]

Sub-burbs happen. In every large city. Thats how it works, in every country in the world. Some of those areas you talk about used to be completely separate towns. Urban Sprawl.

[ttogreh]

Yeah. The largest city in the world, Tokyo, is actually 23 separate cities. However, the Japanese realize that they must all hang together or hang separately, to quote Benjamin Franklin.

Each of the twenty three special wards have their own mayor and assembly. There is a profit-sharing scheme in place that spreads money to wards that need it, and takes money from wards that can afford it.

I am not suggesting anything so... Japanese. However, I am suggesting that we realize our common destiny and make sure that services and such are paid for in an equitable fashion.

The outer and inner ring of suburbs take from the city center without giving back. The residents of the state at large should not be asked to save Detroit when the suburbs can pay for the bills themselves.

[angusfergus]

Yeah. The largest city in the world, Tokyo, is actually 23 separate cities. However, the Japanese realize that they must all hang together or hang separately, to quote Benjamin Franklin.

Each of the twenty three special wards have their own mayor and assembly. There is a profit-sharing scheme in place that spreads money to wards that need it, and takes money from wards that can afford it.

I am not suggesting anything so... Japanese. However, I am suggesting that we realize our common destiny and make sure that services and such are paid for in an equitable fashion.

The outer and inner ring of suburbs take from the city center without giving back. The residents of the state at large should not be asked to save Detroit when the suburbs can pay for the bills themselves.

Tokyo is unique in Japan in that it is a metropolitan area that is, in itself, a prefecture, which is the Japanese equivalent of a state. Tokyo's 23 wards are also unique in the fact that they are cities within a city because the city is a state; wards in other Japanese metropolitan areas do not have separate governments.

As far a American cities? Tokyo would most closely be associated with a place like Jacksonville where the city and county have merged into a single unit; Jacksonville is 885 sq mi, and the largest city in the United States in terms of land area. Tokyo is approximately 830 sq mi. Wayne County is 672 sq mi, so enlarging Detroit to the size of Tokyo or Jacksonville would mean enveloping most of Wayne and Macomb counties, as well as the corner of Oakland that includes Birmingham.

I am not saying such a situation would not benefit Detroit; It likely would as it would increase the size, population, and tax revenue considerably, while significantly reducing administrative costs and striking down the subtly racist 'city vs suburbs' argument that is often tossed about by the clueless and ineffective Detroit City Council and bounced back and forth by others. I don't think it has a real chance of happening; due to reputations people would rather live in 'Birmingham' instead of 'Detroit' even if they live in the same city. However, my point still stands that Novi still would be outside of that conglomerate.

[ttogreh]

I disagree. I think Novi to Rochester Hills are the outer ring of suburbs. That slice of Oakland county was primarily developed during the last half of the prior century. Macomb county is not without blood on its hands, either. Warren's population went from 42,000 to 89,000 between 1950 and 1960.

A Jacksonville style restructuring of Wayne county and Wayne county only, would be the most ideal and most likely solution, however.

[violentivy]

I don't think it has a real chance of happening; due to reputations people would rather live in 'Birmingham' instead of 'Detroit' even if they live in the same city. However, my point still stands that Novi still would be outside of that conglomerate.

So, why are you leaving out good ol' Number 4?

[n0Mad]

So, why are you leaving out good ol' Number 4?

Number 6. No. VI

Number 4 would be Noiv.

[ttogreh]

Be that as it may, Both Novi and Warren, among the others, are not in Wayne county. As such, Unless we are willing to dramatically alter the county lines of Wayne, Oakland, and Macomb, Novi, Rochester Hills, Warren, and the rest are off the hook as far as any restructuring of the Detroit tax base and government.

I am rather liking the idea of a Jacksonville-style restructuring of Wayne county. Did you know that not only can non-Jacksonville city residents that live in the county vote in city elections, but they can also RUN in them?

Freman Hendrix would most likely have won if the suburbs could have voted in the election...

Think about that.

[angusfergus]

Be that as it may, Both Novi and Warren, among the others, are not in Wayne county. As such, Unless we are willing to dramatically alter the county lines of Wayne, Oakland, and Macomb, Novi, Rochester Hills, Warren, and the rest are off the hook as far as any restructuring of the Detroit tax base and government.

I am rather liking the idea of a Jacksonville-style restructuring of Wayne county. Did you know that not only can non-Jacksonville city residents that live in the county vote in city elections, but they can also RUN in them?

Freman Hendrix would most likely have won if the suburbs could have voted in the election...

Think about that.

Technically, there is no such thing as a non-Jacksonville city resident who lives in the same county. Either you're in both or you're in neither.

There was an article in the Free Press I think a while ago about the Royal Oak area and the ridiculous number of small cities that inhabit such a tight space, and how if those cities centralized their government they could cut costs DRAMATICALLY without having to cut services.

I do support the idea of all the suburbs paying into the city of Detroit, but only if the whole area was under one city government. It's not only unfair, but illegal for the City of Detroit to tax residents of a separate city, so that will never happen in that fashion.

[ttogreh]

John Delaney, the Mayor of Jacksonville, Florida, is a resident of Neptune Beach, which is in Duval county. Jacksonville... is also in Duval county.

Look it up.