School Shooting In Ohio

[Steven]

I blame the media in part. Look at all the coverage they gave Cho after V-Tech. He got what he wanted; they turned him into a celebrity. While most normal people see Cho as a monster, to those troubled souls who can empathize with him the media reports made him look like a hero. Even people who are a few crayons short of the 8 box let alone the 120 know that movies are fiction. But news reports are real life events and its from these that these kids get their inspiration.

totally disagree.

these kids are allready fucked up, the news media does not awaken their inner predator, their parents, lack of social skills, general detachment, and environement did this for them allready. That urge lies in sustained dormancy until enough personal frustration releases it, nobody does that shit because they saw it on TV, thats ridiculous.

We so love to blame the media but when we do that we almost present and argument akin to its being some twisted puppeteer yeilding power over us. That argumetn alone should be disturbing...keep it quiet lest we BECOME what the media is feeding us...you guys really have that much fear of it?

somebody birthed that kid, conditioned that kid, failed to nurture that kid. it always, always, always - starts at home. Fox news does not live in my home.

Interesting side note:

In my day we had HUGE media coverage of Charlie Manson and then the Hillside strangler, also the zodiac killer. later on as a teenager we then had Richard Ramirez. Now Manson - there was (and is) a celebrity, with minions and disciples. You dont ever see that twisted devotion from people as an end result from media coverage nowadays, you guys like to say that shit, but its far from true. The last true media fueled celebrity loser was Rodney King.

[ttogreh]

we've had over 25 american school shootings since columbine.

and of those firearms you've listed, very few crimes are committed by registered firearms owners.

we have a social ill. a growing trend. were hunting children now, call it what it is....

Ok, do you really, truly want me to beat you to death with numbers? I will, trust me on this.

All right, just because I don't want to calculate the exact number of days since Columbine, let's say eight years and 90 days have passed since then. That is 3012 days.

3012 / 25 = an average of 120 days and twelve hours between school shootings. Lets say that the average death count is... oh, 7 people. I pulled seven out of my ass, but I can tell you right now, that no matter what the real average is, I will win this argument.

7 * 25 is 175 people. That seems low... Perhaps the average ought to be higher. No matter.

In eight years and 90 days, 175 people have died in school shootings.

About 42,000 people die on our highways every year. That's 115 people A DAY. EVERY DAY.

Some are children, some are elders, some are adults, ALL did not deserve to die.

In the most armed nation on earth, a Cadillac Escalade is statistically more dangerous than a 12 gauge shotgun.

[Hellion]

And a Mack truck will turn an Escalade into an accordion scrape piece of metal.

[Steven]

Ok, do you really, truly want me to beat you to death with numbers? I will, trust me on this.

All right, just because I don't want to calculate the exact number of days since Columbine, let's say eight years and 90 days have passed since then. That is 3012 days.

3012 / 25 = an average of 120 days and twelve hours between school shootings. Lets say that the average death count is... oh, 7 people. I pulled seven out of my ass, but I can tell you right now, that no matter what the real average is, I will win this argument.

7 * 25 is 175 people. That seems low... Perhaps the average ought to be higher. No matter.

In eight years and 90 days, 175 people have died in school shootings.

About 42,000 people die on our highways every year. That's 115 people A DAY. EVERY DAY.

Some are children, some are elders, some are adults, ALL did not deserve to die.

In the most armed nation on earth, a Cadillac Escalade is statistically more dangerous than a 12 gauge shotgun.

your attempting to argue against points Im not making.

we can both statistic each other to death.

or I can just say "In the 70's, nobody was shooting schoolchildren"

and even that would not be completely accurate - but close. dont miss my point in favor of your passion - we have a problem here, and its growing, and its NOW, and your kids will worry about, what I NEVER had to worry about, and that should tell you something.

[ttogreh]

The world is a dangerous place, full of dangerous things. There IS a chance that my child (for the sake of argument, let us say I have a kid) could be killed in a school shooting.

However, my kid is several times more likely to die in an automobile accident. We have to worry about things that are likely.

I'll teach my kid to use his seat belt, and I will buy a car with high safety ratings.

I won't buy a bullet-proof backpack for him.

[Scary Guy]

SCHOOL - 1957 vs. 2007

Scenario:

Jack goes quail hunting before school, pulls into school parking lot

with shotgun in gun rack.

1957

- Vice Principal comes over, looks at Jack's shotgun, goes to his car and gets his shotgun to show Jack.

2007

- School goes into lock down, FBI called, Jack hauled off to jail and never sees his truck or gun again. Counselors called in for traumatized students and teachers.

Scenario:

Johnny and Mark get into a fistfight after school.

1957

- Crowd gathers. Mark wins. Johnny and Mark shake hands and end up buddies.

2007

- Police called, SWAT team arrives, arrests Johnny and Mark. Charge them with assault, both expelled even though Johnny started it.

Scenario:

Jeffrey won't be still in class, disrupts other students.

1957

- Jeffrey sent to office and given a good paddling by the Principal. Returns to class, sits still and does not disrupt class again.

2007

- Jeffrey given huge doses of Ritalin. Becomes a zombie. Tested for ADD. School gets extra money from state because Jeffrey has a

disability.

Scenario:

Billy breaks a window in his neighbor's car and his Dad gives him a whipping with his belt.

1957

- Billy is more careful next time, grows up normal, goes to college, and becomes a successful businessman.

2007

- Billy's dad is arrested for child abuse. Billy removed to foster care and joins a gang. State psychologist tells Billy's sister that she remembers being abused herself and their dad goes to prison. Billy's mom has affair with psychologist.

Scenario:

Mark gets a headache and takes some aspirin to school.

1957

- Mark shares aspirin with Principal out on the smoking dock.

2007

- Police called, Mark expelled from school for drug violations. Car searched for drugs and weapons.

Scenario:

Pedro fails high school English.

1957

- Pedro goes to summer school, passes English, and goes to college.

2007

- Pedro's cause is taken up by state. Newspaper articles appear nationally explaining that teaching English as a requirement for graduation is racist. ACLU files class action lawsuit against state school system and Pedro's English teacher. English banned from core curriculum. Pedro given diploma anyway but ends up mowing lawns for a living because he cannot speak English.

Scenario:

Johnny takes apart leftover firecrackers from 4th of July, puts them in a model airplane paint bottle, and blows up a red ant bed.

1957

- Ants die.

2007

- BATF, Homeland Security, FBI called. Johnny charged with domestic terrorism, FBI investigates parents, siblings removed from home, computers confiscated, Johnny's Dad goes on a terror watch list and is never allowed to fly again.

Scenario:

Johnny falls while running during recess and scrapes his knee. He is found crying by his teacher, Mary. Mary hugs him to comfort him.

1957

- In a short time, Johnny feels better and goes on playing.

2007

- Mary is accused of being a sexual predator and loses her job. She faces 3 years in State Prison. Johnny undergoes 5 years of therapy.

[mallochai]

Scenario:

Jack goes quail hunting before school, pulls into school parking lot

with shotgun in gun rack.

1957

- Vice Principal comes over, looks at Jack's shotgun, goes to his car and gets his shotgun to show Jack.

2007

- School goes into lock down, FBI called, Jack hauled off to jail and never sees his truck or gun again. Counselors called in for traumatized students and teachers.

Bloody Brilliant.

[jadnifer]

The scenarios were great.

Its sad how much things have changed and the way that people view everything anymore. They are so paranoid that something bad is going to happen and that someone is going to get hurt or sued that everything is under protection.

*shakes head*

Will things ever be simple again?

[jadnifer]

Because that would have required adult intervention into children's lives - and there are too many things like lawsuits happening these days that make it nearly impossible for that to happen.

Because parents are too uninvolved in their kids' lives these days to see what's really happening.

Because some parents are truly clueless, and wouldn't know a problem child from a baboon.

Because due to the above and more, children/teens have no fear of adults the way I did when I was growing up. If I threw a rock at a tin can and an old man down the street said, "Hey, kid! Knock that off or I'll tell your father!" I about shit my pants out of fear of being "in trouble." And my parents weren't even abusive. It was just understood that adults are "in charge" and - short of strangers who we were taught to be wary of - they were to be respected.

There is no respect from kids these days. And not enough respect for kids from responsible adults.

It's way too much of a "hands off" society.

I totally agree with this FC. Its so sad that so many parents leave their children to do their own thing and then when they get in trouble...they are like What the hell happened?

I respected adults when I was a child. However, the adults respected the fact that I WAS a child.

Parents just need to be more involved in the childrens lives and I think that that would solve a lot of problems

[n0Mad]

Scary Guy, that was fucking brilliant! I am seriously going to print that out and hang it on my wall.

[Head Wreck]

okay. looking at press since

kid was a loner and social misfit, so insteads of encouraging thier son to be more active and socialble they buy him firearms.

can we go back to 1957, just anything but a delorean please

[Steven]

The world is a dangerous place, full of dangerous things. There IS a chance that my child (for the sake of argument, let us say I have a kid) could be killed in a school shooting.

However, my kid is several times more likely to die in an automobile accident. We have to worry about things that are likely.

I'll teach my kid to use his seat belt, and I will buy a car with high safety ratings.

I won't buy a bullet-proof backpack for him.

by the time said child grows up I'd venture to say that his or her overall risk of being personally affected by random violence will have risen exponentially. and your preaching to the quire in telling me the world is a dangerous place.

adder: I'm puzzled by these types of arguments, where basic ideas are refuted by way of introducing some other scenario that really has nothing to do with the former.

[Head Wreck]

cjheer up steven. you could be hit by a bus tomorow (that was irony btw)

[ttogreh]

Nothing to do with the former? Dead is dead, Steven.

Moreover, School shootings are a symptom of the confluence of disaffected youth, access to improperly secured firearms, incompetent school officials, parents, and public health agencies, among other things.

If you put trigger locks on a firearm, a school shooting does not happen. If a teacher reaches out to a disaffected youth, a shooting does not happen. If a parent pays attention to his kid, a shooting does not happen.

The overall theme of school shootings is systemic, multi-faceted failure. Indeed, a school shooting could very well be compared to a bridge collapse.

Bridges collapse all the time, believe it or not. However, the reasons for a bridge collapse are consistent, simple, and always preventable. The same can be said for school shootings.

However, suggesting that there is an irrevocable downward spiral, as I am feeling is the overall theme of your sentiment, Steven, is just not correct.

It's simply a matter of community priorities. If we put money into our bridges, they don't collapse. If we, ALL OF US, care for our kids, shootings do not happen.

[jadnifer]

Nothing to do with the former? Dead is dead, Steven.

Moreover, School shootings are a symptom of the confluence of disaffected youth, access to improperly secured firearms, incompetent school officials, parents, and public health agencies, among other things.

If you put trigger locks on a firearm, a school shooting does not happen. If a teacher reaches out to a disaffected youth, a shooting does not happen. If a parent pays attention to his kid, a shooting does not happen.

The overall theme of school shootings is systemic, multi-faceted failure. Indeed, a school shooting could very well be compared to a bridge collapse.

Bridges collapse all the time, believe it or not. However, the reasons for a bridge collapse are consistent, simple, and always preventable. The same can be said for school shootings.

However, suggesting that there is an irrevocable downward spiral, as I am feeling is the overall theme of your sentiment, Steven, is just not correct.

It's simply a matter of community priorities. If we put money into our bridges, they don't collapse. If we, ALL OF US, care for our kids, shootings do not happen.

I do agree with this. If things are taken care of the way they should be bad things definitely would happen much less.

However...no matter how well things are taken care of there will always be those times that bad things do happen...no matter how hard people try to keep them from happening. To keep these things to a minimum though...more attention definitely needs to be paid to these matters.

[Steven]

Nothing to do with the former? Dead is dead, Steven.

Moreover, School shootings are a symptom of the confluence of disaffected youth, access to improperly secured firearms, incompetent school officials, parents, and public health agencies, among other things.

If you put trigger locks on a firearm, a school shooting does not happen. If a teacher reaches out to a disaffected youth, a shooting does not happen. If a parent pays attention to his kid, a shooting does not happen.

The overall theme of school shootings is systemic, multi-faceted failure. Indeed, a school shooting could very well be compared to a bridge collapse.

Bridges collapse all the time, believe it or not. However, the reasons for a bridge collapse are consistent, simple, and always preventable. The same can be said for school shootings.

However, suggesting that there is an irrevocable downward spiral, as I am feeling is the overall theme of your sentiment, Steven, is just not correct.

It's simply a matter of community priorities. If we put money into our bridges, they don't collapse. If we, ALL OF US, care for our kids, shootings do not happen.

you seem to take a methodical or even mechanical approach to a social ill.

and yet were both advocating the same things - such as better parent interaction.

teachers on the other hand have unfortunately gotten sucked into the machine that has become the corporation of teaching......many of them operate in pure survival mode nowadays, and the value systems that led them to want to to reach out get sucked into the operational stress of the whole. Laura worked in special ed for 11 years, the stories are horrific. Two of our best friends are also teachers in the public school system - it is from their stories that I have come to this conclusion.....

And yes I can see parrallels in your bridge collapse scenario.

bridges collapse due to aging and corruptible building materials and the lack of an appropriate repair and maintenance ratio to counter that.

so do children (and adults).

only the thing is, a bridge is a hunk of metal, it does not leave a legacy behind or influence the thoughts and actions of others.

am I a bit of a pessimist in this regard? sure. absolutely. I actually AGREE with your ideas about prevention, I simply dont beleive we have it in us as a whole, to follow thru, because we've been marching proudly toward this age of regression for quite some time now, and the dirge of the deathmarch continues....

and just so you know ttogreh - I'm not an armchair critic - im someone who gets involved.....

[Steven]

cjheer up steven. you could be hit by a bus tomorow (that was irony btw)

Calling them as I seezem does not make me depressed, Jack.