Questions Surround Senate Inquiry Of Televangelists

[Steven]

I'll save my comments/thoughts for a little bit later, but I was curious to hear your ideas on this situation - how it does or does not fall into seperation of chruch and state, and where this may or may not be leading, and finnaly, your thoughts on spirituality as governed by the state here America.

have at it folks.

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20071204/ap_on_...angelists_probe

Steven

[Msterbeau]

This is not a separation of church and state issue in any way. This seems to be a legit investigation of so-called religious organizations and their leaders. It seems pretty damn convenient to have a ministry that has as a central tenet that it's members should get rich. What a farce.

[Gaf The Horse With Tears]

Prosperity is such a horrible thing.

[Steven]

Prosperity is such a horrible thing.

(I chuckled. wait a minute...wharafukka am I laughing at? I aint prosperous!!)

[Msterbeau]

Prosperity is such a horrible thing.

Prosperity is fine. Greed isn't. Taking advantage of people isn't. Co-opting religion and spirituality isn't.

[Gaf The Horse With Tears]

well, the way the laws are written... I hope these Church's tell the government to take a flying leap. The senate has no business investigating citizens, not matter the reason. Let the IRS do their own dirty work. We don;t need the feds trying to regulate faith.

[phee]

well, the way the laws are written... I hope these Church's tell the government to take a flying leap. The senate has no business investigating citizens, not matter the reason. Let the IRS do their own dirty work. We don;t need the feds trying to regulate faith.

[Gaf The Horse With Tears]

Prosperity is fine. Greed isn't. Taking advantage of people isn't. Co-opting religion and spirituality isn't.

Co-opting what religion? Who's spirituality? If their brand of religion teaches that God wants people to be rich and to do everything they can to get to that point... What gives you or anyone else a right to say that it's wrong?

I have major issues with the Unitarian Church but that doesn't mean I want to make it illegal or have government oversight for it.

We have the Bill of Rights thing. It protects everybody, not just liberals.

[Msterbeau]

Co-opting what religion? Who's spirituality? If their brand of religion teaches that God wants people to be rich and to do everything they can to get to that point... What gives you or anyone else a right to say that it's wrong?

I have major issues with the Unitarian Church but that doesn't mean I want to make it illegal or have government oversight for it.

We have the Bill of Rights thing. It protects everybody, not just liberals.

This not about liberalism Mark, so stop generalizing with that brush. This is about me thinking that these televangelists are con artists using religion and "god" as a way to make a buck. If they operated as a business but otherwise did the exact same thing I would have less of a problem with it. I don't think legislating religion is the answer. I think you're right that the IRS should be the ones making the inquiries... but sometimes they need a little leadership, ya know? And yeah... people let themselves be duped into this... but some people aren't very bright and some are in vulnerable emotional states. So they should be allowed to be taken advantage of for the sake of freedom of religion? I think not.

[Steven]

and the line is drawn where?

and by whom?

and that should be decided by whom?

by the way I think Benny Hinn and the like are trash - but I do respect Joyce Meyer.....

[Fierce Critter]

and the line is drawn where?

and by whom?

and that should be decided by whom?

by the way I think Benny Hinn and the like are trash - but I do respect Joyce Meyer.....

I've watched a few minutes of Joyce Meyer now and again. She's definitely charismatic.

[Msterbeau]

and the line is drawn where?

and by whom?

and that should be decided by whom?

by the way I think Benny Hinn and the like are trash - but I do respect Joyce Meyer.....

That I can't answer.

[Steven]

I've watched a few minutes of Joyce Meyer now and again. She's definitely charismatic.

I like s straight shooter....its the language that I understand the most. She's been included in this investigation on prosperity ministries but I dont beleive she fits the bill - Benny Hinn definately does, but she's much more of an "let's equip ourselsve sto live this life" kind of gal, which I like.

Incidently I was once in a Xtian rock band that was endorsed by TBN/channel 40. We played some high profile gigs for that scene - and the church who was doing the majority of the funding wanted Benny Hinn to come out in white and introduce us - on Television. I told them if they did that that I'd walk right up to the mic and tell the television crowd that Benny Hinn was a false prophet.

it didint go over well.

[Steven]

That I can't answer.

and there lies our conundrum my friend.

but trust me somebody WILL come up with an answer soon enough and will actually enforce it. I smell the times and they are a changin......

[Gaf The Horse With Tears]

That I can't answer.

don't you think it should be answered BEFORE the investigations start?

[Steven]

don't you think it should be answered BEFORE the investigations start?

uh oh. get out of my skull.

(were too late Mark....this is always how these things take place)

[Msterbeau]

don't you think it should be answered BEFORE the investigations start?

I'm not entirely sure it's answerable. No matter where you draw the line a lot of people will be unhappy. They should be conducting these hearings with respect to tax law and if these guys are using religion as a cover for what's really a business.

[Gaf The Horse With Tears]

but Congress has no authority to investigate anyone. at all. ever.

Legislative branch. They make laws. Thats it.

They have NO power to set Policy, on anything.

They have NO investigative powers or enforcement powers.

McCarthy would love them

[Steven]

I'm not entirely sure it's answerable. No matter where you draw the line a lot of people will be unhappy. They should be conducting these hearings with respect to tax law and if these guys are using religion as a cover for what's really a business.

And then this leads you into HOW to determine if these religions are jsut money making schemes, therefore some standard must be written and set into law, and some agency of enforcement must represent that standard and so on, and so on, and so on....

I hate corruption too....but the tragedy is that were treading upon certain founding national ideals.....

and so it would seem to me that once we begin to flirt with this dangerous area - we end up making a sweeping mandate for acceptable state recognized spirituality......

and im quite sure this will one day happen, as I ve said before....I beleive that a man like me will be outlawed for the good of the republic...perhaps even in my lifetime.

[torn asunder]

and im quite sure this will one day happen, as I ve said before....I beleive that a man like me will be outlawed for the good of the republic...perhaps even in my lifetime.

you're such a martyr...

[odims_sphere]

and im quite sure this will one day happen, as I ve said before....I beleive that a man like me will be outlawed for the good of the republic...perhaps even in my lifetime.

We'll just start calling you Socrates!

[Steven]

We'll just start calling you Socrates!

Im too much of a dumb ass for that but thanks.......

[Steven]

you're such a martyr...

hmmmm, I'm not afraid of it and thats not meant to be said in the romantic sense....

besides, take a look around at some other countries here in the modern era, what I'm thinking is really not that far fetched at all, and this democracy of ours is ripe for the pickens historically speaking ...

[Homicidalheathen]

It is: warning that the investigation could be unconstitutional.

the groups are not legally required to disclose financial information to the Senate.

"This has nothing to do with church doctrine," said Grassley, who has been investigating nonprofit compliance with the tax code for years. "This has everything to do with the tax exemption of an organization

They are exempt from what I understand....so.......