"left Behind" Book Series

[GothicRavenGoddess (3)]

[split out of "now reading" as to not confuse the subject there, and the conversation is more relevant to the CESSPERS forum.]

Tribulation Force, Book #2 in the Left Behind series.. I read the first one WAY before it became a phenomenon, and it

seems, i am reading the second one way after the series became a phenomenon. I hope that i can find the rest, and read it... yeah, i'm a fanatic like that.. lol gotta read a whole series... lol

[phee]

Tribulation Force, Book #2 in the Left Behind series.. I read the first one WAY before it became a phenomenon, and it seems, i am reading the second one way after the series became a phenomenon. I hope that i can find the rest, and read it... yeah, i'm a fanatic like that.. lol gotta read a whole series... lol

Is that the series written that was very... er.... rightwing/christian/religious?

[GothicRavenGoddess (3)]

Is that the series written that was very... er.... rightwing/christian/religious?

yeah, but its captivating.. when i read the first one, i wasn't a very religious person, but I liked it. it was a great book.. its a little preach-y, but good. and no, i didn't find God, after reading it... I've been Wicca all along.. just haven't been practicing, till a year ago.. back to the book... Its written well, and its keeps you begging for more.. just want to know what's going on in the character's lives...religion, and the fight between good and evil are covered in it, but, its also a love story, and a close look into people's struggles. I liked it.

What about you guys, read a book recently and was surprised that you liked it?

[the eternal]

Tribulation Force, Book #2 in the Left Behind series.. I read the first one WAY before it became a phenomenon, and it seems, i am reading the second one way after the series became a phenomenon. I hope that i can find the rest, and read it... yeah, i'm a fanatic like that.. lol gotta read a whole series... lol

Is that the series written that was very... er.... rightwing/christian/religious?

It's an end of days series written by intolerant right wingers waiting for the rapture.

------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

"The Left Behind Series of books have sold some 70 million copies. -

There are three movies based on the books.

Besides LaHaye (one of the authors),

evangelists such as Pat Robertson and Jerry Falwell are among the most well-known believers in these doctrines."

"This series has received different reactions; however, the American Evangelical Christian community in general has approved the idea of representing in a worldly language the end times theology.

Jerry Falwell said: "In terms of its impact on Christianity, it's probably greater than that of any other book in modern times, outside the Bible.

The series has been described as "Tom Clancy or Steven King meets Jesus":

action-adventure with heavy Christian overtones.

Spin-offs include a children's edition, comic books, postcards, board games, three movies and more.

Critics are particularly incensed by the identity of the series' authors:

Dr. Tim LaHaye and Jerry B. Jenkins. LaHaye heads several American conservative organizations,

including the Council for National Policy, which may have conservative influence on American policymakers.

Jews and Israelis will find the series' plotline extremely troubling, to say the least.

In the first book, seven years of fighting between the forces of good and evil begin with a Russian attack on Israel,

which survives to enable Jesus to return.

While many Jews "see the light" and convert to Christianity, some liberal Israelis support the evil nonbelievers.

In other words, "Left Behind" supports Israel but portrays Judaism as a mistaken religion.

The Left Behind game has been attacked from both the left and the right.

On The Daily Show, Rob Cordry showed a clip of the game's developer

explaining that if a player "kills" an innocent bystander, he or she loses a point.

However, if the player recruits and converts the bystander, he or she gains two points.

"Now I understand," Corddry quips. "The difference between murder and the soul's eternal salvation is three points."

Moderates view the implied connection between Christianity and violence with misgiving and caution that Islamists may use the game

and the books as proof of American anti-Muslim intolerance."

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

I suppose it's a good companion piece after sitting by the fire watching Passion of the Christ

(inspired by Mel Gibson's Holocaust denying father)

________________________________________________________________________________

___________

Me?

[Destroit]

It's an end of days series written by intolerant right wingers waiting for the rapture.

------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

"The Left Behind Series of books have sold some 70 million copies. -

There are three movies based on the books.

Besides LaHaye (one of the authors),

evangelists such as Pat Robertson and Jerry Falwell are among the most well-known believers in these doctrines."

"This series has received different reactions; however, the American Evangelical Christian community in general has approved the idea of representing in a worldly language the end times theology.

Jerry Falwell said: "In terms of its impact on Christianity, it's probably greater than that of any other book in modern times, outside the Bible.

The series has been described as "Tom Clancy or Steven King meets Jesus":

action-adventure with heavy Christian overtones.

Spin-offs include a children's edition, comic books, postcards, board games, three movies and more.

Critics are particularly incensed by the identity of the series' authors:

Dr. Tim LaHaye and Jerry B. Jenkins. LaHaye heads several American conservative organizations,

including the Council for National Policy, which may have conservative influence on American policymakers.

Jews and Israelis will find the series' plotline extremely troubling, to say the least.

In the first book, seven years of fighting between the forces of good and evil begin with a Russian attack on Israel,

which survives to enable Jesus to return.

While many Jews "see the light" and convert to Christianity, some liberal Israelis support the evil nonbelievers.

In other words, "Left Behind" supports Israel but portrays Judaism as a mistaken religion.

The Left Behind game has been attacked from both the left and the right.

On The Daily Show, Rob Cordry showed a clip of the game's developer

explaining that if a player "kills" an innocent bystander, he or she loses a point.

However, if the player recruits and converts the bystander, he or she gains two points.

"Now I understand," Corddry quips. "The difference between murder and the soul's eternal salvation is three points."

Moderates view the implied connection between Christianity and violence with misgiving and caution that Islamists may use the game

and the books as proof of American anti-Muslim intolerance."

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

I suppose it's a good companion piece after sitting by the fire watching Passion of the Christ

(inspired by Mel Gibson's Holocaust denying father)

________________________________________________________________________________

___________

Me?

People and their ignorance amazes me. I'm Christian, and that sort of shit is upsetting. I could understand someone writing a book like that, that's free speech knock yourself out, but I can't believe that so many people would buy into it. I know a way to upset all other Christians (to balance out the number of Jewish and Muslim people upset by this book) also: Revelations was written WAY after Jesus died. The rapture, or end of days as it's known, was actually the "vision" of a teenage girl (I think in Ireland, I can't remember I'm digging up mental info from wwwway back, so feel free to correct) and some Catholic priest basically petitioned to have it put in the bible.

That's it. All this fuss over a dream a girl had. I have apocolyptic dreams all the time, you don't see me calling up the Vatican now do you? That would just be silly.

To make a the story short: Jesus will probably never rise up out of the ground and cause crazy shit to happen where we all go to heaven. If heaven is a place we go - it will happen when we die. To say a bunch of corpses will come up out of the ground and go to heaven is crazy - only Jesus can do that I'm sorry if I totally re-arranged anyone's view of the world, please try to recover, and carry on with your life when possible.

Hmm...what am I reading? WELP, I'm about to start reading "Go Ask Ogre" who was written by a Skinny Puppy cutter-fan (whose name I forgot because it isn't OhGr, Ogre, Nivek Ogre, or Kevin Graham Ogilvie). Needless to say, I'm excited to learn more about Ogre than I already know...which is probably almost as much as Phee knows, but not quite.

[Troy Spiral (13)]

People and their ignorance amazes me. I'm Christian, and that sort of shit is upsetting. I could understand someone writing a book like that, that's free speech knock yourself out, but I can't believe that so many people would buy into it. I know a way to upset all other Christians (to balance out the number of Jewish and Muslim people upset by this book) also: Revelations was written WAY after Jesus died. The rapture, or end of days as it's known, was actually the "vision" of a teenage girl (I think in Ireland, I can't remember I'm digging up mental info from wwwway back, so feel free to correct) and some Catholic priest basically petitioned to have it put in the bible.

That's it. All this fuss over a dream a girl had. I have apocolyptic dreams all the time, you don't see me calling up the Vatican now do you? That would just be silly.

To make a the story short: Jesus will probably never rise up out of the ground and cause crazy shit to happen where we all go to heaven. If heaven is a place we go - it will happen when we die. To say a bunch of corpses will come up out of the ground and go to heaven is crazy - only Jesus can do that I'm sorry if I totally re-arranged anyone's view of the world, please try to recover, and carry on with your life when possible.

Hmm...what am I reading? WELP, I'm about to start reading "Go Ask Ogre" who was written by a Skinny Puppy cutter-fan (whose name I forgot because it isn't OhGr, Ogre, Nivek Ogre, or Kevin Graham Ogilvie). Needless to say, I'm excited to learn more about Ogre than I already know...which is probably almost as much as Phee knows, but not quite.

No scholars of any credibility that im aware of view John Of Patmos (the name given to the writer of Revelation) as anything other than a male. Whoever he was, he was a he. There wasn't an Ireland per-se at the time Revelation was written (late mid-late 1st Century) the area was at the time referred to as "Hibernia" by the ancient Romans and very little is known about it during that time period.

"The Rapture" is just one event of in a gigantic chain of "the end times" not the end times themselves.

If your "a christian" by definition, Judaism is a mistaken religion, in that they reject Christ as the messiah. Nothing ignorant there , just a result of a christian worldview.

Islam (as actually written in the Koran) is clearly , stated many ways right in the Koran, in opposition to Christianity (and judaism) thus also from a "christian" standpoint a mistaken ideology. Nothing ignorant there.

The touchy-feely versions of Christianity / Judism and Islam don't have their basis in the early teachings. The idea that they are "in harmony" is a secular non-religious wishful thinking. That is some ignorance of the actual subject matter.

Having done my homework on Revelation , this simplistic dismissive of very detailed, and well-informed scholarship is unfounded. New-age interpretations abound but well educated scholars have held the "Futurist" interpretation of revelation for well over a thousand years (at least). They might be wrong in their interpretations, but they are definitely not "ignorant.".

"Craziness" of the bible:

Basically the argument (more of a statement than an argument) quoted above is against visions or "revelations" that lead to supernatural outcomes. That is, "supernatural stuff is crazy and your ignorant if you belive in it". Fair enough of a statement in and of itself, but it doesnt jive well with "being a christian". If that's the case then then there is no basis for almost all the central themes in the bible. Almost all the key FYIs in the bible demand some sort of belief in visions/prophecies or revelations of one sort or another from Genesis on down if one is to call themselves "Christian".

"I believe in being good and such" probably far more accurate than "im Christian" if we reject the central "proofs" for the supernatural nature of christ and the bible. If Christianity has no supernatural aspect to it, then the term starts to become somewhat diluted and a new term needs to be used. If being a "smart Christian" means "i don't believe in that supernatural stuff" , then the term "Christian" is being misused.

I personally am a borderline atheist (becoming less and less borderline the more i educate myself on the relevant subjects) , but to dismiss ages of well educated revelation scholars based on very sketchy and incorrect information is a mistake.

Left Behind Series:

The unfolding of revelation as Fiction in the Left Behind series is clearly stated as fiction and just a "possible outcome" of how revelation might unfold. From what I've read they are very clear that they don't have any crystal ball that lets them see the "real" revelation in detail.

Its clear they have a "Christian agenda" but that isn't necessarily a negative. Most all books are written with some underlying agenda. The fact that this happens to be "traditional" (read fundamentalist) Christianity isn't particularly unusual. Its popularity is the only unusual aspect. The interpretation they use to (loosely) base the books around, as far as I've read, is fairly standard, and based on very well researched scholarship.

I've not read the series, but i probably will at some point, as its such a influential set of books (and as far as i can tell a very easy read). Not that I'm in love with popularizing and making it easier for people to avoid questioning their beliefs (which i think this series does), perhaps unintentionally.

[CixWicked]

Now you all gone and got me started...

IT'S A BOOK, PEOPLE. IT'S GOT A GENERA AND SUBJECT MATTER THAT SOME PEOPLE LIKE AND SOME PEOPLE DON'T.

I'm not sure why I said that, but it's usually a good way to start off a conversation about religion, especailly when you're a hippo critically irreverent Christian such as myself.

Now my favorite recipie for Jack Sparrow, is One part Captain Morgans, One part Malibu Rum, Chase it with Pineapple juice, and add a splash of grenadine for color...

My point... I... Don't... Know.

Cix

"Life is good when you can cause chaos and confusion everywhere you go..."

"You never go anywhere, and your house is immaculate..."

"Yeah, the queer guys had an eye for me..."

No scholars of any credibility that im aware of view John Of Patmos (the name given to the writer of Revelation) as anything other than a male. Whoever he was, he was a he. There wasn't an Ireland per-se at the time Revelation was written (late mid-late 1st Century) the area was at the time referred to as "Hibernia" by the ancient Romans and very little is known about it during that time period.

"The Rapture" is just one event of in a gigantic chain of "the end times" not the end times themselves.

If your "a christian" by definition, Judaism is a mistaken religion, in that they reject Christ as the messiah. Nothing ignorant there , just a result of a christian worldview.

Islam (as actually written in the Koran) is clearly , stated many ways right in the Koran, in opposition to Christianity (and judaism) thus also from a "christian" standpoint a mistaken ideology. Nothing ignorant there.

The touchy-feely versions of Christianity / Judism and Islam don't have their basis in the early teachings. The idea that they are "in harmony" is a secular non-religious wishful thinking. That is some ignorance of the actual subject matter.

Having done my homework on Revelation , this simplistic dismissive of very detailed, and well-informed scholarship is unfounded. New-age interpretations abound but well educated scholars have held the "Futurist" interpretation of revelation for well over a thousand years (at least). They might be wrong in their interpretations, but they are definitely not "ignorant.".

"Craziness" of the bible:

Basically the argument (more of a statement than an argument) quoted above is against visions or "revelations" that lead to supernatural outcomes. That is, "supernatural stuff is crazy and your ignorant if you belive in it". Fair enough of a statement in and of itself, but it doesnt jive well with "being a christian". If that's the case then then there is no basis for almost all the central themes in the bible. Almost all the key FYIs in the bible demand some sort of belief in visions/prophecies or revelations of one sort or another from Genesis on down if one is to call themselves "Christian".

"I believe in being good and such" probably far more accurate than "im Christian" if we reject the central "proofs" for the supernatural nature of christ and the bible. If Christianity has no supernatural aspect to it, then the term starts to become somewhat diluted and a new term needs to be used. If being a "smart Christian" means "i don't believe in that supernatural stuff" , then the term "Christian" is being misused.

I personally am a borderline atheist (becoming less and less borderline the more i educate myself on the relevant subjects) , but to dismiss ages of well educated revelation scholars based on very sketchy and incorrect information is a mistake.

Left Behind Series:

The unfolding of revelation as Fiction in the Left Behind series is clearly stated as fiction and just a "possible outcome" of how revelation might unfold. From what I've read they are very clear that they don't have any crystal ball that lets them see the "real" revelation in detail.

Its clear they have a "Christian agenda" but that isn't necessarily a negative. Most all books are written with some underlying agenda. The fact that this happens to be "traditional" (read fundamentalist) Christianity isn't particularly unusual. Its popularity is the only unusual aspect. The interpretation they use to (loosely) base the books around, as far as I've read, is fairly standard, and based on very well researched scholarship.

I've not read the series, but i probably will at some point, as its such a influential set of books (and as far as i can tell a very easy read). Not that I'm in love with popularizing and making it easier for people to avoid questioning their beliefs (which i think this series does), perhaps unintentionally.

[Gaf The Horse With Tears]

Troy,

Islam recognizes Christ as one of the great prophets and the son of God. Were they differ with Christians starts at the courts. They believe that God saved Christ by taking him bodily into heaven and put Judas on the cross in his stead.

Though in opposition of Islam, Christians are considered misguided and they are sopposed to do everything they can to get Christians to convert to Islam.

It's actually against Islamic law to call a Jew or Christian an Indifel.

I forgot my point.

[Gaf The Horse With Tears]

and Cix

right the fuck on brother. It is in fact, just a book. People can read it or not.

that drink sounds good.

[Head Wreck]

a few people in the bar were moaning about one of the regulars having a bibble with him since he was "born again", infact some of the people were really hostile to this.

WTF! its his choice, he literally comes in, orders a drink and sits down and reads in-between bits of conversation, nothing has changed with him aside from he's reading the bible instead of a metal magazine (which there are plenty about the place), doesnt force it down anyones throats, nor is he condiscending of any of the rest of us.

my beliefs are not christian, their more of a mix of science and theology (i take what happens and find a way of making it work in my head), but i just had to object to the line of conversation going on.

you get hypocrittes on all sides i gues.

what really boills the blood was that none of the cunts would say that to his face or even have muttered it if he was in the bar.

i have a bible. its a great book, if only as a bit of entertainment (after all people are reading the dan brown books and harry potter), or as a moral guide.

sex, violence, and insanity are all in it, its as good as shakespear for those things

[Steven]

i have the series and Ive read it, it was actually a gift given to me many years ago from a non beleiveing friend.

In all honesty - I do not know if I am a post or pre tribber if I had to be categorized. I do know that I have always felt and still do that I would be left behind. Im ok with that. Im much more concerned with how im living now than what is to befall in future events.

overall I think the books are a good read, but you need to realize that they are not gospel accounts and should be subject to criticism just like anythign else. I do beleive they are insightful to a point but they are in no way sufficient for sustaining faith. I read them as an interesting perspective on what may come to pass regardign the rapture.

[Fierce Critter]

When the books first came out, I was interested in that one of my VERY VERY VERY favorite subjects of books and/or movies is any version of the "end of the world" theme. Stephen King's "The Stand." "Earth Abides." The movie "Day After Tomorrow." "Resident Evil". etc. So it just tickled my interest in that way.

But I wasn't interested in reading the books, but I did read the graphic novels they came out with. They were pretty well done. I stopped somewhere around the 6th graphic novel.

I watched the movie version a couple weeks ago. And I just rented the 2nd movie from the library yesterday. Again - it's the whole "end of the world" theme that, I guess you could say, makes it "o.k." for me to watch, considering I am a major bible doubter and react very, very badly to prosyletizing of any sort.

The movie version, imo, was pretty in-your-face with the "we gotta repent and give ourselves to God" theme. Of course - it's making the written word visual. It bothered me a bit. But not enough to stop me from watching the rest of the films.

You gotta choose what you want to get out of a book/movie/whatever. Don't want to read it at all? Don't. Interested in what someone of a different religion thinks? Do.

etc.

[Fierce Critter]

By the way, I learned through a discussion of these books with my husband only very, very recently that he has read the bible from cover to cover. I had not known that throughout the whole 9+ years of our marriage.

Just about anything that fosters communication between people is a good thing, IMO.

[jadnifer]

All right a few things from the head of Jadnifer:

Isnt there a version of the stories that was written for the younger people and a version of the story that was written for adults?

Also people have to use their head when they read these types of "stories" which is exactly what they are and nothing more.

Remember when--I cant remember the author's name now--wrote the Da Vinci Code? Almost every church was having bible studies about the novel and whether or not the story was true. The author actually said, "This is a made up story to entertain yourself. There is no truth to it at all." It didnt matter to some people. They still think that there is some secret somewhere.

Its all in what you want to believe.

[ttogreh]

I am most certainly in the camp that believes the tribulation as described in the Book of Revelation has already happened. See, in my opinion, the tribulation was about three hundred years long, and ended when Constantine and Licinius ended the institutionalized persecution of Christians in the empire.

Nero was the Antichrist, yo.

[Troy Spiral (13)]

Now you all gone and got me started...

IT'S A BOOK, PEOPLE. IT'S GOT A GENERA AND SUBJECT MATTER THAT SOME PEOPLE LIKE AND SOME PEOPLE DON'T.

I'm not sure why I said that, but it's usually a good way to start off a conversation about religion, especailly when you're a hippo critically irreverent Christian such as myself.

Now my favorite recipie for Jack Sparrow, is One part Captain Morgans, One part Malibu Rum, Chase it with Pineapple juice, and add a splash of grenadine for color...

My point... I... Don't... Know.

Cix

"Life is good when you can cause chaos and confusion everywhere you go..."

"You never go anywhere, and your house is immaculate..."

"Yeah, the queer guys had an eye for me..."

I can understand the sentiment, but words have power. This series of books in particular has been very influential from what i can tell.

There is a long history of "just books" having very strong social impact. (Tomas Paine's "Common Sense" pamphlet which is credited as being one of the key sparks of the American revolution pops to mind for some reason) Often they are meant to have such impact, and even fictional works have this impact. Fiction is often a tool to try and appeal to readers that might otherwise ignore their point(s) if they were not wrapped up in fictional settings.

Also this is a message board right? People like to discuss stuff in more detail sometimes. Rather than just a huge stream of one-liners and such all the time.

Troy,

Islam recognizes Christ as one of the great prophets and the son of God. Were they differ with Christians starts at the courts. They believe that God saved Christ by taking him bodily into heaven and put Judas on the cross in his stead.

Though in opposition of Islam, Christians are considered misguided and they are sopposed to do everything they can to get Christians to convert to Islam.

It's actually against Islamic law to call a Jew or Christian an Indifel.

I forgot my point.

My overall point with that above post was just about not dismissing people as being ignorant, if they have a belife in a particular supernatural concept/idea. But anyhow...

Gaf believe me I've done my homework on Islam. I definitely am not an expert, but in terms of the rudiments such as Christ's place in the Muslim prophet-pile I'm pretty well versed in. I'm pretty well versed with the ABCs of Christianity / Judaism / Islam (and Buddhism).

I'm not saying that to refute what your saying or be argumentative, I'm just saying it so the basic stuff like "Islam recognizes Jesus as a prophet" and "there are various Muslim nods to modern secular-style tolerance..." don't need to be covered, at least not for my benefit.

Like the bible, given passages can be taken to justify just about any good or bad action. But on balance, Islam is clearly a "christianity? HELL NO. Judaism? HELL NO." Directly stated as such. There are layers of crap built up around it (just like early Christan teachings) that confuse the issue, but Islam is definitely not anywhere near as "tolerant" as say Christianity or Judaism in its core teachings. (although neither early Christan nor Jewish teachings would be considered "tolerant" by today's secular standards)

Random quote i found because i couldn't find the actual text of the book i read last year:

Nothing will be solved by searching for ‘true Islam’ or quoting the Qur'an. The Qur'an is a vast, vague book, filled with poetry and contradictions (much like the Bible). You can find in it condemnations of war and incitements to struggle, beautiful expressions of tolerance and stern pictures against unbelievers. Quotations from it usually tell us more about the person who selected the passages than about Islam. Every religion is compatible with the best and the worst of humankind.

The above is the general re constructionist viewpoint of all the worlds major religions, not just Islam. I was right there with this quote for probably the last decade. But Islam in particular doesn't fit this model. There are a few passages here and there urging tolerance and understanding, but far more urging militant , government-sanctioned, condemnation of any "false" religions (meaning all of them).

More acurate:

As Christians we must be very emphatic that Christians have and continue to do many shameful things in the name of Christ, BUT the issue is this: Christians who use violence in the name of God to destroy their enemies have no justification for their actions from Jesus Christ, his life and teachings as found in the New Testament. Whereas, Muslims who are engaged in violence and destruction of anyone who opposes Islam, have ample justification for their actions from the Qur'an and the life and sayings of prophet Muhammad.

[Troy Spiral (13)]

The Left Behind website lists all these as the "core books". I think the natural inclination would be to think there is only 12, but according to them the "whole story" is 16 volumes:

Book #1: Left Behind (HC, SC, AB, LP, 10th Anniversary)—Now Available

Book #2: Tribulation Force (HC, SC, AB, LP)—Now Available

Book #3: Nicolae (HC, SC, AB, LP)—Now Available

Book #4: Soul Harvest (HC, SC, AB, LP)—Now Available

Book #5: Apollyon (HC, SC, AB, LP)—Now Available

Book #6: Assassins (HC, SC, AB, LP)—Now Available

Book #7: The Indwelling (HC, SC, AB, LP)—Now Available

Book #8: The Mark (HC, SC, AB, LP)—Now Available

Book #9: Desecration (HC, AB, SC)—Now Available

Book #10: The Remnant (HC, SC, AB, LP)—Now Available

Book #11: Armageddon (HC, SC, AB, LP)—Now Available

Book #12: Glorious Appearing (HC, SC, AB)—Now Available

The Beginning of the Story: The Rising (HC, SC, AB)—Now Available

The Beginning of the Story: The Regime (HC, SC, AB)—Now Available

The Beginning of the Story: The Rapture (HC, AB)—Now Available

Left Behind Sequel: Kingdom Come—Now Available

From what i've read it seems you could fairly easily skip "the begining" books, but "Kingdom Come" is a clear progression of the story beyond Glorious Appearing.

I'm guessing for the hardcore newbie that plans on belting out the whole thing you could just start with "The Rising" rather than Left Behind.

Again i haven't read any of these. I'm interested, but there is a TON of shit on my to-be-read pile.