Sex Offender To Become

[odims_sphere]

If he wants to serve god he can become a monk and pray while locked away in solitude, or he can help build churches, or clean them. He's proven he can't be trusted to make good decisions around people.

Isn't that like saying people caught speeding can be mechanics if they want to be around cars, but they can never drive again since they've proven they can't stay below the speed limit.

I do realize the vast difference in scale of the two exapmles, but I guess I'm a little bit of a believer in if you do your punishment you should be given the benefit of the doubt.

[freydis]

Isn't that like saying people caught speeding can be mechanics if they want to be around cars, but they can never drive again since they've proven they can't stay below the speed limit.

I do realize the vast difference in scale of the two exapmles, but I guess I'm a little bit of a believer in if you do your punishment you should be given the benefit of the doubt.

Speeding and having sex with children arent exactly equitable examples.

[odims_sphere]

Speeding and having sex with children arent exactly equitable examples.

You missed the point.

The point is if you serve the time you should be given a second chance.

Why let them out of jail at all if there is no hope for rehabilitation? And if that's the case why let any criminals out at all since it's impossible for people to reform? Then if that's the case why not just kill everyone convicted of a crime? Save society a lot of time and money.

[CandyQuackenbush]

Isn't that like saying people caught speeding can be mechanics if they want to be around cars, but they can never drive again since they've proven they can't stay below the speed limit.

I do realize the vast difference in scale of the two exapmles, but I guess I'm a little bit of a believer in if you do your punishment you should be given the benefit of the doubt.

I only see your example as half true.

Yes, you can go to jail for speeding. Esp. if you speed in a construction zone. But this guy is a sex offender.

So you're saying that since he served his time, you'd be fine with this guy being alone with the kids? You just said he served his time, and now he should be given the benefit of the doubt, so let him watch the kids while we go out for the evening.

[odims_sphere]

I only see your example as half true.

Yes, you can go to jail for speeding. Esp. if you speed in a construction zone. But this guy is a sex offender.

So you're saying that since he served his time, you'd be fine with this guy being alone with the kids? You just said he served his time, and now he should be given the benefit of the doubt, so let him watch the kids while we go out for the evening.

I wouldn't hire him as a baby sitter, but I wouldn't think twice about taking them to a church where he was a priest at. (that is if I went to church).

I wouldn't hire anyone as a babysitter without knowing them very personally so asking if I would leave the kids with him is irrelevant. I wouldn't leave them with anyone I didn't know. It has nothing to do with his past.

[Troy Spiral (13)]

The question here for us armchair quarterbacks who have no clue about the real situation, despite reading random news stories probably is something like:

"Is it clear that this guy is reformed or not? Is it worth the risk or no?"

The answer from people that presumably know the ins and outs of the situation seems to be "yes" here. Despite it perhaps feeling counter intuitive to many.

Just because someone made error judgments in the past does not mean they are hitherto incapable of change. Not that i have any secret info about this particular situation.

Also we are talking about a Christan church decision, based on a long history of redemption / forgiveness concepts, not our secular view which can be very different.

[freydis]

You missed the point.

The point is if you serve the time you should be given a second chance.

Why let them out of jail at all if there is no hope for rehabilitation? And if that's the case why let any criminals out at all since it's impossible for people to reform? Then if that's the case why not just kill everyone convicted of a crime? Save society a lot of time and money.

No, I didn't miss the point.

I just didn't find it a reasonable example.

Every crime isn't equal. As I've said earlier, some crimes aren't so easy to just "forgive".

Sex crimes are often an indicator of something really, really wrong. This wasn't some guy saying "Oops! Sorry, officer, she looked 18 to me!" This was a man who knowingly slept with several girls, aged 13-15.

Do I think he's probably still a threat to society?

YES, I DO.

This is why sex offenders are required by law to register their current whereabouts with their state's sex offender registry, as opposed to drug dealers or murderers. I know that not everyone on the registry may be someone who is psychologically predisposed to acting in a sexually predatory manner, but a good deal of them are. This isn't the same as someone who simply 'made a bad choice' and stole things or got into a fight and killed someone. These are people who are wired wrong, and according to the DOJ: "Compared to non-sex offenders released from State prisons, released sex offenders were 4 times more likely to be rearrested for a sex crime."

In other words, rehabilitation for sex crimes is 4 times less likely than rehabilitation for non-sex related crimes.

Besides, man. I'm Asatru. Personally, I'd rather see kiddie diddlers strung up by their family jewels.

[freydis]

I wouldn't hire him as a baby sitter, but I wouldn't think twice about taking them to a church where he was a priest at. (that is if I went to church).

I wouldn't hire anyone as a babysitter without knowing them very personally so asking if I would leave the kids with him is irrelevant. I wouldn't leave them with anyone I didn't know. It has nothing to do with his past.

From a few sites I've browsed, the problem most people have with his appointment as Reader was that in rural Alaska, Orthodox clergy are few and far between. Function could extend to baptisms, private counceling, etc if their village didnt have an Orthodox priest.

[odims_sphere]

No, I didn't miss the point.

I just didn't find it a reasonable example.

Every crime isn't equal. As I've said earlier, some crimes aren't so easy to just "forgive".

Sex crimes are often an indicator of something really, really wrong. This wasn't some guy saying "Oops! Sorry, officer, she looked 18 to me!" This was a man who knowingly slept with several girls, aged 13-15.

Do I think he's probably still a threat to society?

YES, I DO.

This is why sex offenders are required by law to register their current whereabouts with their state's sex offender registry, as opposed to drug dealers or murderers. I know that not everyone on the registry may be someone who is psychologically predisposed to acting in a sexually predatory manner, but a good deal of them are. This isn't the same as someone who simply 'made a bad choice' and stole things or got into a fight and killed someone. These are people who are wired wrong, and according to the DOJ: "Compared to non-sex offenders released from State prisons, released sex offenders were 4 times more likely to be rearrested for a sex crime."

In other words, rehabilitation for sex crimes is 4 times less likely than rehabilitation for non-sex related crimes.

Besides, man. I'm Asatru. Personally, I'd rather see kiddie diddlers strung up by their family jewels.

You're adding in emotion into a system based on logic.

They are exactly the same. Each is a law that can either be broken or not, and each have penalties designed to correct the misbehavior based upon the severity of the crime.

I could see an argument that Sex offender punishment are not strict enough, logically that makes sense, but IMO you can't continue to persecute people who have, so to speak, paid their debt to society.

[freydis]

You're adding in emotion into a system based on logic.

They are exactly the same. Each is a law that can either be broken or not, and each have penalties designed to correct the misbehavior based upon the severity of the crime.

I could see an argument that Sex offender punishment are not strict enough, logically that makes sense, but IMO you can't continue to persecute people who have, so to speak, paid their debt to society.

Nope, I think we're talking apples and oranges.

Sex crimes, especially with repeat offenders, often have a psychological component. I have a problem with the way our current justice system deals with sex crimes, because with a recidivism rate like like that (4 times as likely? Bloody hell), it's obvious that jail isnt doing anything to fix what's broken. In some cases, I'm sure it's making it worse.

And I'm not adding in emotion. Sex crimes have a high psychological component. Your average car thief is motivated by greed, nothing more. Not so for Pedophiles and habitual rapists.

[odims_sphere]

Nope, I think we're talking apples and oranges.

Sex crimes, especially with repeat offenders, often have a psychological component. I have a problem with the way our current justice system deals with sex crimes, because with a recidivism rate like like that (4 times as likely? Bloody hell), it's obvious that jail isnt doing anything to fix what's broken. In some cases, I'm sure it's making it worse.

And I'm not adding in emotion. Sex crimes have a high psychological component. Your average car thief is motivated by greed, nothing more. Not so for Pedophiles and habitual rapists.

That makes complete sense, and I agree with you our justice system does not handle it well, However until that changes I don't believe its fair to continue to punish anyone after they've already completed their punishment, unless part of that punishment is that he cannot work with children, or the like. However in tis case it that's not what happened. I don't believe they should keep him from doing what he wants to, as long as it's within the law.

[xbittergracex]

You're adding in emotion into a system based on logic.

Christianity is based on Logic?

Even better question:

The CATHOLIC church is based on logic?

[odims_sphere]

Christianity is based on Logic?

Even better question:

The CATHOLIC church is based on logic?

no, the criminal justice system.

[xbittergracex]

no, the criminal justice system.

that too, is questionable.

[ttogreh]

The criminal justice system has taken six thousand years to develop to its current state. Before it, there were blood feuds. Really, all of this stems from the unnaturally high populations that agriculture allows, but let us focus on one thing at a time.

The human environment that we live in... is imperfect, because we aren't finished. Moreover, while I find the idea of this Dushkin reading the texts in an Orthodox church... disquieting... that is their choice to make. No laws have been broken by allowing him to have such a position.

Granted, many laws MAY be broken by allowing him to have this position, but that is the risk the Vestry seems willing to take.

Indeed, we are talking about the molestation of a child if their choice is a poor one. However, I reserve my wrath for when a crime has occurred, not for when it may occur.

We thread a fine line between crime prevention and oppression...

[the eternal]

Yeah I googled too, and also the actual meanings of the offenses he was convicted for. He's a turd. Commence stone throwing.

No!!! Now what do I do with all my well thought out rage??

And I was so ready to write you off, like I do to everyone else who ends up disappointing me.

One of my former pastors felt the same. Allowed a gentleman into the church, worked w/ him to get over his past. The guy was in the church about a year before he raped the pastor's wife.

That's like a psychological horror film.

Am I the only one floored by your story?

I'm so sorry. That's ust awful.

I wouldn't hire him as a baby sitter, but I wouldn't think twice about taking them to a church where he was a priest at. (that is if I went to church).

I wouldn't hire anyone as a babysitter without knowing them very personally so asking if I would leave the kids with him is irrelevant. I wouldn't leave them with anyone I didn't know. It has nothing to do with his past.

Priests have amazing access to children.

How a lot of the Catholic ones molested, was by having sleepovers at their house unsupervised.

They're trusted leaders, and I don't trust this man at all.

I'm sorry, but I don't want any kids around a convicted sex offender who just happens to have an esteemed position and privilege in the religious community.

In addition to the good points already made:

Here's what I don't think any of you brought up-----

It's NOT too cynical to think that he's trying to move up the ranks of the church hierarchy SO he can commit again.

Criminals don't think they're going to get caught.

Sex criminals often have a psychological directive to commit this behavior.

It's not some conspiracy theory to suspect that it's his PLAN to play it safe for a few years, rise up to priesthood, and then, with the access it provides, commit crimes again.

I'm sorry Odims, I think you're way too trusting, here, and using rules of fairness where they really don't apply.

No, I didn't miss the point...

Besides, man. I'm Asatru. Personally, I'd rather see kiddie diddlers strung up by their family jewels.

Please don't call them kiddie diddlers. It sounds too cute, like a new Elmo doll or coloring tablet.

"Kiddie Diddlers, now in five different styles, from Crayola"

suspicious

Indeed, BW quote from a completely different thread that somehow backs up my point here.

Suspicious indeed!

[Kit Kat P]

That's like a psychological horror film.

Am I the only one floored by your story?

I'm so sorry. That's ust awful.

It tore our church apart. I do believe that people can change and I've seen some of the worst things that man does to it's own. But , from what I've seen, those who do those things to others have something wrong w/ them, that generally cannot be changed.

[the eternal]

Interesting. Yea, that's probably true.

What happened to the man???

Is he still in prison?

[Gaf The Horse With Tears]

I would just like to point out that there is no getting over being a pedophile. You don't get cured. You never stop wanting to do it again. They can not be rehabilitated.

They can fight every day to control thier urges, but they never stop. The one's that get caught and truly understand what they have done is wrong... never want to be left alone with children again because they know what will happen.

[jadnifer]

Oh man...I just read a whole bunch of responses. Here we go:

First of all, I am Christian. Yes, my belief is to forgive. But that doesnt always go hand in hand with forget. God forgives you of your sins...but he still knows that you committed it in the first place.

There is no way that I would EVER trust this man EVER. I would not go to this church even if I didnt have kids because it would go against what I stand for.

The fact that he has so much access to children being involved in the church scares me and saddens me. I wouldnt be surprised if we find out that he committed another sexual crime.

As far as sexual offenders ( mostly minors) and murderers are concerned, it depends on how severe the murder was as to how long that person is in jail. Let me explain. Accidental murder still gets jail time. It goes up from there usually as to what the motive of the murder was to begin with. I agree that jail really isnt a good punishment for sex offenders. They have something terribly wrong with them. They should be condemned to a psych ward and if they are ever released...NEVER EVER be able to be around children unsupervised again.

I know that this is an extreme example but take Charles Manson as an example. He is one hardcore MOFO. Every time he comes up for bail they ask him if he would kill again and his answer is always yes. In cases of serial killlers and mass murderers ...no they shouldnt be allowed out. People that sexually prey on others especially minors is one step away from killing them....a lot of times it takes away their dignity and self-worth and it takes a hell of a long time to get it back if they ever do.

In my opinion, this man needs to be as far away from children as he possibly can be.

I know that people might have a lot of strong opinions against this but this man IMO needs to be chemically castrated. Sorry but thats the way that I feel. That goes for all rapists..not just child molesters.

[TygerLili]

Isn't that like saying people caught speeding can be mechanics if they want to be around cars, but they can never drive again since they've proven they can't stay below the speed limit.

I do realize the vast difference in scale of the two exapmles, but I guess I'm a little bit of a believer in if you do your punishment you should be given the benefit of the doubt.

Like Munin and a few others have said, not all crimes are equal. There's a reason there is a registry for convicted sex offenders while there is not a registry for convicted speeders. As car is not psychologically damaged if you get a speeding ticket in it.

And, yes, I think there are flaws in our criminal justice system. I don't think it's fair that someone who gets caught peeing in an alley or an eighteen year old who gets caught having consentual sex with their seventeen year old significant other should go on the same list as someone who sexually abuses children.

I do believe that people shouldn't continue to be punished after they have served their sentence, and I'm not suggesting that we lock him up forever and throw away the key; however, in the case of violent criminals(and yes, I would consider pedophilia a violent crime), I think it's foolish not to restrict their access to people they could victimize. Unfortunately, sometimes the safety of the masses outweighs the personal liberty of one individual. If that weren't true we wouldn't have criminal background checks, airport security, waiting periods to buy hand guns, the list goes on.

But, I probably am biased because, like a lot of people here seem to, I do hate true pedophiles. I have my reasons.

[Head Wreck]

peodophilia is not something you can rehabilitate, its hardwiresd into them and the only way is to remove those urges.

now i dont belive in the death sentance, or removing huiman rights but c'mon! you really think a position of trust amoungst children is the way forward?

if you comit something inhuman, dont expect me to treat you like a human. and its not just peodophillia, any rapist (and i'm not on about two underage kids of the same age consenting then the pearents pressing charges. allthough the kids messed up, its just not the same as when someone forces themselves on another, and its not just men on women).