Utah Students Hide Guns, Head To Class

[Gaf The Horse With Tears]

http://www.cnn.com/2008/US/02/20/cnnu.guns/index.html

SALT LAKE CITY, Utah (CNN) -- The senior at the University of Utah gets dressed and then decides which gun is easiest to conceal under his clothes.

If he's wearing a T-shirt, he'll take a smaller, low-profile gun to class. If he's wearing a coat, he may carry a different weapon, he said.

He started carrying a gun to class after the massacre at Virginia Tech, but the student says he's not part of the problem of campus shootings and could instead be part of a solution

[n0Mad]

"I feel less safe knowing that a stranger sitting beside me in class may have a gun in his or her backpack," she said.

"The only people that should carry guns are trained officials."

Little does she know that on average, CCW holders receive more training, practice more often, and are more accurate with their firearms than police officers. Furthermore, there are more police officers convicted of felonies per year than CCW holders. In fact, Michigan Attorney General Mike Cox has stated, "In almost 14 years as prosecutor and as head of the Homicide Unit of the Wayne County (Detroi) Prosecutor's Office, I never saw anyone charged with murder who had a license to legally carry a concealed weapon" (The Wall Street Journal). I don't know why people think that being a police officer grants the person some magical gun carrying abilities that us ordinary citizens don't seem to have.

[Gaf The Horse With Tears]

The same people that perpetuate the myth that the Police are there to protect them.

[n0Mad]

Considering the US Supreme Court has ruled that police are under no obligation to even respond to a call at all.

Remember, when seconds count, the police are just minutes away.

[jadnifer]

Considering the US Supreme Court has ruled that police are under no obligation to even respond to a call at all.

Remember, when seconds count, the police are just minutes away.

Then WTF do we even have police officers for then?

[n0Mad]

Then WTF do we even have police officers for then?

To show up to the crime scene after the fact, take notes and evidence, and attempt to track down the perpetrator and bring him to the courts who attempt to bring him to justice. In a sound bite, "Police don't stop crimes, they solve them after the fact."

[jadnifer]

I would have to say that it would better to actually stop the crime from happening in the process if possible. It would definitely help a whole lot of people, instead of just investigating the aftermath.

[n0Mad]

Cops can't be everywhere all the time. Especially in Pontiac where the police force was pretty much cut in half. Cops try to get to a call as quickly as possible but criminals can be in and out pretty quickly (the average response time of police is 6 minutes, and that's after you get a chance to call 911, assuming you're not dead already). Ultimately, the person responsible for your protection is you. Avoiding danger is the best solution and the one to try at all costs. If danger finds you, however, evading danger is the next best step. Pepper spray won't stop an assailant, but it will buy you time so you can evade. Confrontation is the last option. If you are in your own home or any place that you have the legal right to be, you should not be forced to retreat. Your rights are more important than a criminal's. If confrontation is inevitable, then you deserve the best tools for the job and that is a firearm. There's a reason cops carry them, because they're the best tools to stop a threat.

FYI - My original major in college was law enforcement. I trained to be a cop until I changed my mind and realized theatre was my passion. And now I'm working on an MBA in marketing because I decided making money is a good idea.

[jadnifer]

I see where your point lies in this. However, is it legal to shoot an intruder in your house? I think that that falls under self-defense? Or am I incorrect in this statement?

[n0Mad]

Short answer, yes. Long answer ... I am not an attorney so this in no way constitutes legal advice. In Michigan, if you are out and about and you fear that you or someone else is in imminent danger of loss of life, severe injury, or forcible penetration, then you may legally shoot the offender to stop the threat. You don't shoot to kill, disarm, disable, or fire any warning shots, you shoot to stop the threat. That pretty much means 2-3 shots to center of mass. If that doesn't stop the threat, then two more to center of mass and 1-2 to the head is next. If that doesn't stop the threat, then hope you're not in California where you're limited to 10-shots or less magazines and you have a wonder-9. Empty the mag into the perp while running away and reload as soon as you reach slide lock.

That's if you're out and about. In your home, if somebody enters and is unexpected and uninvited, you can legally shoot because it is automatically assumed your life is being threatened. Plus, you are protected under law from being sued by the perp's family for "wrongful death" by a beautiful piece of legislation called "Castle Doctrine". Not all state's have this law which means if you live in one that doesn't, if somebody breaks into your house and is raping you, and you shoot him, he can sue you (if he lives, or his family if he doesn't) for damages. Fortunately, in Michigan, we have Castle Doctrine. We're also fortunate to have "shall issue" concealed carry status. Some states are still stuck in "may issue". Two states, Vermont and Alaska, are awesome in the fact that you don't even need a permit to carry a concealed weapon. They feel the Constitution is permit enough and if you legally qualify to purchase a firearm (of adult age, have no felony convictions, are mentally sane, etc) then you can carry it. Two states are f-ed in the head: Wisconsin and Illinois (and Washington D.C.). They don't allow CCW at all. Don't even get me started on those states or even New York City and California which are f-ed in the head in other ways. Microstamping bullshit ...

[jadnifer]

Thank you for that information. It was more than anyone has really been able to elaborate on for me. I'm always up for learning new things.

[n0Mad]

In that case, want to go to the range sometime?

[jadnifer]

Would be interesting. I have never actually shot a gun before. Scared to. I guess I'm a bit afraid of the kick.

[know_buddy_kares]

I like where this thread is going....

[n0Mad]

I like where this thread is going....

Where, to the range? Why, do you want to join us? All are welcome.