Removing Piercings At Airport Terminals

[Msterbeau]

He's right folks - sorry but he is.

in terms of distractions for overworked and underpaid TSA agents you need to remember as well that when it comes to explosives....those little machines you place your faith in are only calibrated to "sniff" or detect certain substances at a time - and there is a host of different substances to make explosives from. A "distraction" makes good sense here. I'm sure we've all seen high drama at the airport before.

I'm not buying it. Not in this case.

Explosives are different from metals. Why attract attention to yourself with one thing when you want to distract from another?

[Steven]

I can't speak to Gloria's rep. I don't know who she is... But if the circus came to town, the TSA's unwillingness to admit an error is partly to blame. Ms. Hamlin clearly states that all she desires is an apology and a proper investigation into the incident. I don't like lawsuits and all the nonsense that goes with them... but sometimes that's what it takes to resolve matters like this.

Actually TSA has been investigated numerous times and numerous times we've all seen media coverage and such. I think if she wanted an investigation then I'd like to know her motives, because although I feel bad for this chick - I DONT beleive she's trying to improve security measures - I think she's trying to kick some ass because she's pissed. I'm not at all saying that TSA is blameless. I'm simply saying that Gloria and Co. spells something else that isint being looked at hard enough.

[Gaf The Horse With Tears]

um, the 9/11 hijackers used box knives.. the flat kind... I will bet you a dollar I can hide one on a breast right next to a nipple ring without pain and without being able to see it with the naked eye.

[Steven]

I'm not buying it. Not in this case.

Explosives are different from metals. Why attract attention to yourself with one thing when you want to distract from another?

ask a terrorist bro.

the logic your using is western leave it to beaver logic.

it does not apply to extremists - extremeists do exactly that - take extreme measures.

[Msterbeau]

hmmmmmmmm wrong. we are in a war zone marc. there are lots fo people who would love to kill YOU - today, and they are trying literally every single day to make that happen.

I'm not going to get into a debate about what a war zone is or isn't. Lubbuck, Texas and Baghdad are worlds apart from a security standpoint.

[Steven]

I think would should let TSA do their internal investigation and then go from there. TSA seems to me to be taking a very neutral stance until their investigation is done.

exactly.

given the never ending scrutiny they are always under and the thankless criticism they endure while protecting us, I'd be a bit lax on jumping right out in the media and admitting and apologizing as well. I would bet that there has allready been some degree of an apology until further measures can take place, and that that effort was rebuffed.

even if that has nto taken place and NO apology has been presented - I still say let TSA do their own investigating, because this is surely not standard TSA procedure. get fucking Gloria out of there.

[Steven]

I'm not going to get into a debate about what a war zone is or isn't. Lubbuck, Texas and Baghdad are worlds apart from a security standpoint.

you forget what has taken place on native soil.

and you seem to (said respectfully) not want to accept what COULD take place on native soil.

it IS on the agenda Marc.

Baghdad is only a world apart because Americans are easily distracted and have short term memories. I'm quite sure that one day soon Baghdad (or something like it) will arrive on our present doorstep - and the first thing we will do is point fingers - those of us who are still alive.

unless your military, ex military, a civilian national security contractor, etc.....there is a GREAT deal that goes on here that you are completely unaware of.

[pharoh]

First. Here's the relevant part of TSA rules on this:

"Hidden items such as body piercings may result in your being directed to additional screening for a pat-down inspection. If selected for additional screening, you may ask to remove your body piercing in private as an alternative to the pat-down search.

If you grabbed that word for word then basically it can be countered as something along the lines of "Yes this is an alternative, but nothing in here says they will NOT still do a pat-down. I know what your saying with this, but still it's going to be argued as a word game and nothing more...that how the legal system works, symantics.

If TSA was to appologize then they would be admitting fault, and then out come the lawsuits.

Personally, I am agreeing with TSA as well. After havin a shitty security setup at the airports for so long, I would rather them do cavity searches and feel safe then worry about getting blown up or killed after just getting raped for paying for airfare.

[phee]

I know enough about this to know that I don't know....

[Msterbeau]

um, the 9/11 hijackers used box knives.. the flat kind... I will bet you a dollar I can hide one on a breast right next to a nipple ring without pain and without being able to see it with the naked eye.

On or in?

Weather a person could or not, they can't get to the cockpit anymore, since they are now armored and locked. And now that we're aware of these sorts of tactics... I'm pretty sure a plane full of passengers can take on a couple potential hijackers with tiny knives. Perhaps I'm too optimistic.

[Gaf The Horse With Tears]

There is also some really easy to make explosives that you can hide on your body that will set off a metal detecotr...

Aluminum Powder is s good example. Just add potassium chlorate... boom. Mix each into wax and color like skin... shape to breasts to make you a cup size bigger... cover with good makeup to finish the look.

On the plane.. go to the bathroom. remove wax from breasts... mix two blobs of wax together... open light fixture, take out light bulb, stuff in hole where light bulb goes... flip switch.. plane go boom.

hrmmm... I need to stop writing these things down...

[Gaf The Horse With Tears]

On or in?

Weather a person could or not, they can't get to the cockpit anymore, since they are now armored and locked. And now that we're aware of these sorts of tactics... I'm pretty sure a plane full of passengers can take on a couple potential hijackers with tiny knives. Perhaps I'm too optimistic.

On one of the planes they did. 3 of the planes still ran into buildings. not everyone has the nerve to risk bodily injury to save even thier own life let alone everyone else with them.

[pharoh]

There is also some really easy to make explosives that you can hide on your body that will set off a metal detecotr...

Aluminum Powder is s good example. Just add potassium chlorate... boom. Mix each into wax and color like skin... shape to breasts to make you a cup size bigger... cover with good makeup to finish the look.

On the plane.. go to the bathroom. remove wax from breasts... mix two blobs of wax together... open light fixture, take out light bulb, stuff in hole where light bulb goes... flip switch.. plane go boom.

hrmmm... I need to stop writing these things down...

All the more reason why I support what I posted above

[Msterbeau]

If you grabbed that word for word then basically it can be countered as something along the lines of "Yes this is an alternative, but nothing in here says they will NOT still do a pat-down. I know what your saying with this, but still it's going to be argued as a word game and nothing more...that how the legal system works, symantics.

If TSA was to appologize then they would be admitting fault, and then out come the lawsuits.

Personally, I am agreeing with TSA as well. After havin a shitty security setup at the airports for so long, I would rather them do cavity searches and feel safe then worry about getting blown up or killed after just getting raped for paying for airfare.

Maybe it's because I have nipple piercings and know first hand how much of a pain they can be to heal that I'm on her side...

I fail to see your point about the wording. It clearly says you can take them out OR submit to a pat down. Even if they expanded that to a visual search, which I would agree with, I don't see a lot of ambiguity. And yes... it's a direct quote.

I DO hear your point on the the lawsuits.. but I think she has a legit complaint. You can't not make good on wrongdoing just because it might set a precedent.

[Msterbeau]

There is also some really easy to make explosives that you can hide on your body that will set off a metal detecotr...

Aluminum Powder is s good example. Just add potassium chlorate... boom. Mix each into wax and color like skin... shape to breasts to make you a cup size bigger... cover with good makeup to finish the look.

On the plane.. go to the bathroom. remove wax from breasts... mix two blobs of wax together... open light fixture, take out light bulb, stuff in hole where light bulb goes... flip switch.. plane go boom.

hrmmm... I need to stop writing these things down...

Seems like a pat down would detect this because of the difference in skin vs wax density?

I dunno... Seems like until the day that there is a machine that you walk through that can scan you, visually look at you inside and out and determine all materials etc that are on your person, there's always going to be a gap for a determined person to get through. There has to be a a reasonable line drawn about what is acceptable security procedures. I think making people rip their body jewelry out ain't it. I for one would be ok with a little extra poking and prodding as an alternative.

[odims_sphere]

The fucked up because THEY VIOLATED THEIR OWN POLICY.

I'm sure they know their policy better than any of us.

According to everything that has been presented here on this message board i don't see where they violated anything:

Hamlin said she could not remove them and asked whether she could instead display her pierced breasts in private to the female agent.

"Hidden items such as body piercings may result in your being directed to additional screening for a pat-down inspection. If selected for additional screening, you may ask to remove your body piercing in private as an alternative to the pat-down search."

She consented to display, displaying is far different from a pat down.

For all we know they gave her that option and she refused.

Plus the second part of the TSA policy you produced says:

If selected for additional screening, you may ask to remove your body piercing in private as an alternative to the pat-down search.

No where in that statement does it say will be given an option. The way I'm reading it is that it's up to the agent what he has them do.

[pharoh]

I fail to see your point about the wording. It clearly says you can take them out OR submit to a pat down. Even if they expanded that to a visual search, which I would agree with, I don't see a lot of ambiguity. And yes... it's a direct quote.

Maybee I am wording it wrong....makes sense in my head lol.

Nothing has been written about them not being subjected to the other if one is already done, it's just a considered alternative. Which could be argured over and over again from a legal standpoint because it doesn't say Specifically if you do one you don't have to do the other. Am I making sense? (not meant to be rude, I don't know how else to say it lol)

Ultimately I think if they went to court and TSA used that as thier arguement they would lose, but really it would just be a tactic to drain this chick of her money by the way of lawyer fees and what not.....winning by attrition if you must.

Hope I was able to clear it up alittle more buddy

[freydis]

I love it! Only in America.

Security is an inconvenience, a bother even until it's needed, by then it's too late.

Oh well, I for one am glad there are those out there willing to protect the well-being of the American people even if they are criticized for it.

If I had the chance I'd thank them.

Security does not extend the right to harassment, public embarassment, etc.

Just take her aside into a fucking room and have a look.

Dont laugh at her, don't make her hurt herself just to ride a fucking plane.

One strip search handled in an adult and humane manner would have solved the whole thing.

As for other agents laughing and ridiculing her? I believe it. I've had people treat me like complete asshats over something as simple as my fucking *name*.

This is stupid. She's not hiding weapons in her brasseire. If you have that suspicion, *search it*.

Bloody hell.

[Msterbeau]

On one of the planes they did. 3 of the planes still ran into buildings. not everyone has the nerve to risk bodily injury to save even thier own life let alone everyone else with them.

Agreed about what people may or may not do. I think the fact that it's happened so recently (And the consequences of inaction are known) may galvanize people who would otherwise be reluctant to do so. Also... those guys had access to the cockpit.

[Msterbeau]

I'm sure they know their policy better than any of us.

According to everything that has been presented here on this message board i don't see where they violated anything:

She consented to display, displaying is far different from a pat down.

For all we know they gave her that option and she refused.

Plus the second part of the TSA policy you produced says:

No where in that statement does it say will be given an option. The way I'm reading it is that it's up to the agent what he has them do.

The way I read it... she wasn't given the option of a pat down. And she said she was willing to do so.

[freydis]

I believe there is a very fine line.

That line is drawn between what we allow people to do under the name of "security", and what can happen when that line gets thinner and thinner... this is where you see personal rights begin to erode. Yes, we need to keep people safe and secure. But the question is, how far are you *really* willing to go for this? A lot happens under the excuse of protecting the safety of others. A lot can happen when certain measures aren't taken. It's really hard to see where your rights end, and where the rights of the government begin. That line becomes blurrier every day.

I don't believe in sitting by idly while people get killed.

I also don't believe in allowing wrong to occur, in the name of security.

It's a difficult line to draw, and a difficult line to see.

In this case, though, I think some TSA agents were being jerks because they could be.

[odims_sphere]

The way I read it... she wasn't given the option of a pat down. And she said she was willing to do so.

Right, she wasn't given an option, nor do they have to give her one.

They decided that the situation required them to be removed. End of story.

[Angel of Death]

Right, she wasn't given an option, nor do they have to give her one.

They decided that the situation required them to be removed. End of story.

W/e dude, I have nvr had to remove a piercing and even so they didn't have to harass her. IS IT THAT HARD TO FUCKIN APOLOGIZE!!!!!?????

[pharoh]

W/e dude, I have nvr had to remove a piercing and even so they didn't have to harass her. IS IT THAT HARD TO FUCKIN APOLOGIZE!!!!!?????

Harrassment is in the eye of the beholder.....we don't know who this chick is....she couuld just be trying to play the victim.

And I'll say it again......if TSA appologizes then they admit fault and are subject to lawsuit......let the internal investigators handle it, if they are not happy with that, get a third party who is unbiased to the investigation.

[Msterbeau]

Right, she wasn't given an option, nor do they have to give her one.

They decided that the situation required them to be removed. End of story.

Read the rule again. The passenger is the one who is allowed to volunteer to remove the jewelry as an option to pat down. They forced her to remove it. Not the same and clearly a violation of their policy.