Praying Passenger Removed From Plane In Ny.

[Steven]

airline reps...

it was a few minutes, and he wasn't interfering, as he was at the back of the plane... i feel it was just a power trip - they booted him cuz they could, imo...

as has been stated here within DGN - the "rules" are for the good of the whole, are designed to maintain some sense of order, and are not open to personal intereptation as ultimately - the site is woned by somebody who sets the rules.

this airline - is not owned by you and me.

and in difficult times - they - the airline - have set the tone as they - the airline - sees fit and they - the airline - will definately remind you that this is not a democracy.

personally.......if this person of devout faith KNEW (and he did) when he had to do his prayers and he therefore KNEW what timet he flight would board and he therefore KNEW that his actions may indeed present a confict to the powers that be.......then he had a responsibility to adjust his own position to yeild to the environment that he WILLFULLY walked into. Either wait to pray - or if that was impossible - then go greyhound and leave the driving to us.....

yes, they booted him because they could.

because it allowed them to maintain their own vision of what mattered the most.

[freydis]

Why? He went to the back of the plane. He was out of the way of boarding passangers. There was plenty of time for him to do it and not delay the plane.

When exactly did he give up his Freedom of Religion and submit his prayer schedual to Airline approval?

At certains time of the day... Muslims, no matter where they are... put down a rug, face Mecca, kneel and pray. They do not stop until the prayer is done.

Some Jewish sects have this ritual. It's part of thier Faith.

But this model of plane......does it board from the back or the middle? I've been on smaller planes, where the lavatories are right there where you board. If that was the case......he was in the way. Also, they have a point.... even more than ever lately, being on time is a big deal. Yeah, they probably shouldnt have ejected him, but he could have had the courtesy to tell them ahead of time.

[Steven]

Some Jewish sects have this ritual. It's part of thier Faith.

yeah, but some airlines have this rule: "please take your seat sir".

this did not take place in Jewish airspace on Air YHWH. So.....you have to factor that in.

[Steven]

..so we can logistify... he wasn't in the way...

..and were I his Rabbi, I would say 1 word...SUE...

who's "WE"? I didint say that at all.

didint even think it.

and I doubt the crew thought it either.

their plane, their rules, their environement, their gig.

[phee]

yeah, but some airlines have this rule: "please take your seat sir".

this did not take place in Jewish airspace on Air YHWH. So.....you have to factor that in.

That was funny...

[Steven]

That was funny...

dont you laugh at ME mister.......

[Msterbeau]

Why? He went to the back of the plane. He was out of the way of boarding passangers. There was plenty of time for him to do it and not delay the plane.

When exactly did he give up his Freedom of Religion and submit his prayer schedual to Airline approval?

At certains time of the day... Muslims, no matter where they are... put down a rug, face Mecca, kneel and pray. They do not stop until the prayer is done.

Some Jewish sects have this ritual. It's part of thier Faith.

How did he know there was plenty of time? Often things are pretty hectic. All he would have to have done is ask " I need to pray for a few minutes, it is mandatory, is there a place that I can do it that won't disrupt anything?" I think the crew would have been far more accommodating if he had simply asked.

We all just want to do what we want instead of communicating to avoid potential problems.

[Rev.Reverence]

She most likely was afraid.. she didn't know what religion he was... just that he was an oddly dressed arabic looking man praying at the back of the plane.

Anyone notice they detained him over night? Without calling the Port authority or Police? Excuse me?

FUCK... THAT'S WORTH THE SUING!!!!!

.. any day... a Hasidic Jew... does not look like a threat... PERIOD.

..can you pick out the Jew? It's a fun game my Jew freind taught me... These are Hasidics....

The crux of the problem is, IGNORANCE...

Unabashed ignorance...

These are MUSLIMS...

http://www.pluralism.org/research/profiles..._studying_1.jpg

If an airline attendant, or security agent can't, won't or doesn't care

to be informed on LARGE groups of peoples that use the facilities;

do we really want to let them be in charge of this ???????

[Steven]

How did he know there was plenty of time? Often things are pretty hectic. All he would have to have done is ask " I need to pray for a few minutes, it is mandatory, is there a place that I can do it that won't disrupt anything?" I think the crew would have been far more accommodating if he had simply asked.

We all just want to do what we want instead of communicating to avoid potential problems.

agreed

[Steven]

Rev - your Jewish friends KNOW that they are to be outside of secular society, therefore they KNOW that the regular Joe looks on them puzzled, and they KNOW that public services do not automatically provide a margin for them.....so knowing this - they have a responsibility as well....to freaking communicate.

you can claim ignorance.......but to me its really an issue of personal irresponsibility.

FUCK... THAT'S WORTH THE SUING!!!!!

.. any day... a Hasidic Jew... does not look like a threat... PERIOD.

..can you pick out the Jew? It's a fun game my Jew freind taught me... These are Hasidics....

The crux of the problem is, IGNORANCE...

Unabashed ignorance...

These are MUSLIMS...

http://www.pluralism.org/research/profiles..._studying_1.jpg

If an airline attendant, or security agent can't, won't or doesn't care

to be informed on LARGE groups of peoples that use the facilities;

do we really want to let them be in charge of this ???????

[Gaf The Horse With Tears]

But this model of plane......does it board from the back or the middle? I've been on smaller planes, where the lavatories are right there where you board. If that was the case......he was in the way. Also, they have a point.... even more than ever lately, being on time is a big deal. Yeah, they probably shouldnt have ejected him, but he could have had the courtesy to tell them ahead of time.

It was a non-stop flight from NY to SF. It was not a small plane.

[Rev.Reverence]

Rev - your Jewish friends KNOW that they are to be outside of secular society, therefore they KNOW that the regular Joe looks on them puzzled, and they KNOW that public services do not automatically provide a margin for them.....so knowing this - they have a responsibility as well....to freaking communicate.

you can claim ignorance.......but to me its really an issue of personal irresponsibility.

I did agree... untill, they A) took him off the plain...B) detained overnight

..seems a little much...

[Rev.Reverence]

It was a non-stop flight from NY to SF. It was not a small plane.

...and he HAS to be as out of the way/view as possible...

[Steven]

I did agree... untill, they A) took him off the plain...B) detained overnight

..seems a little much...

taking him off the plane was totally Kosher in my book.

I wasent even trying to make a funny....you have my permission to chuckle.

detaining him? I dont know any details about what went down and why....I dont know if he was combative, or non compliant, I dont know.

[torn asunder]

taking him off the plane was totally Kosher in my book.

out of curiosity, why?

[Steven]

out of curiosity, why?

hes not the only one who paid for that flight. but because he entered into a vessle that other passangers likewise entered and paid for, and yet expected that overall posture of the group culture to make an unannounced and un planned adjustment to his personal needs whcih resulted in a disruption of paid services by the group as a whole.

this: $$$ made them equals.

this: (Pre-Planning) was lacking.

this: (Tough Titties) was the end result.

[Oh_My_Goth]

!!!!!WOW!!!!!

This is News?????

[Draco1958]

Hmmm, has anyone considered that the delay in flying him out may have something to do with no flights available till morning?? Everyone is sue happy. And nothing against freedom of religion but let's not forget freedom FROM religion. His religious right doesn not mean he can inconvienence everyone else. Maybe where he was standing was interfering with the flight attendants doing their job. Seems to me like some people feel religious rights overshadow all other rights. If that were true, then someone exercising their religious rights could stand in the middle of a busy intersection to say prayers and that it would be alright and the drivers should just suck it up because his rights count more than theirs. This is an extreme situation yes but according to what I have read, some may believe that. I believe in freedom of religion but I DON'T believe it has the right to overshadow my rights or anyone elses rights. If his standing in the aisle was a problem then yes they had the right to ask him to sit, yes he should have asked if it was ok to stand and pray where he was. Remember he's not asking for permission to pray, just permission for where he was standing. Let's not mix the two. It seems some are combining them and acting like he was being denied his ability to pray and not his ability to stand in the aisle possibly being a hinderance to the flow of people. But since he was praying out comes the freedom of religion banner even though the issue is more of where he was standing. I noticed the part of the story of standing in the aisle was overshadowed by he had the right to pray even though it seems to me the issue was where he was standing when doing it and not the praying alone. So yes I do believe he should have cleared it with the flight crew first only because of his standing in the aisle, not over his saying a prayer. I want to clarify that before I get slammed for denying him his religious freedom. As far as I am concerned he could have been sitting next to me praying. I would have bowed my head and remained silent until he was done due to respect. However no matter how strong one believes in religious freedom, it doesn't mean they have the right in inconvienence everyone else. They too have to respect our rights and not interfere with the normal flow of things. Just my 2 cents.

[Rev.Reverence]

Two Good Cents... my mind is not easily convinced to alter it's point of view... but he should have asked an attendant...

..I still don't think detaining meant that he didn't get a fight... I think he was in a holding cell... from the context...

[Draco1958]

I was just wondering outloud if that could have been the reason for not flying till morning.

[jadnifer]

I think that if it was interfering with the flight attendants doing their job and people being able to board, then yes it was justified. I don't feel that he should have be detained overnight however.

If it wasn't interfering with anyone, then I don't see where there should have been a problem whatsoever.