Praying Passenger Removed From Plane In Ny.

[Miranda]

A passenger who left his seat to pray in the back of a plane before it took off, ignoring flight attendants' orders to return, was removed by an airport security guard, a witness and the airline said.

The Orthodox Jewish man, who wore a full beard, a black hat and a long black coat, stood near the lavatories and began saying his prayers while the United Airlines jet was being boarded at John F. Kennedy International Airport on Wednesday night, said Ori Brafman, a fellow passenger who spoke about the incident by phone from San Francisco, where he lives.

When flight attendants urged the man, who was carrying a religious book, to take his seat, he ignored them, Brafman said. Two friends, who were seated, tried to tell the attendants that the man couldn't stop until after he'd finished his prayers in about 2 minutes, he said.

When the man finally stopped praying, he explained that he couldn't interrupt his religious ritual and wasn't trying to be rude. But the attendants summoned a guard to remove him, said Brafman, a writer who had been visiting New York to talk to publishers.

The plane, Flight 9 to San Francisco, took off without the man. It landed at its destination as scheduled, Brafman said.

Robin Urbanski, a spokeswoman for United Airlines, a subsidiary of UAL Corp. with headquarters in Chicago, confirmed the man was taken off the plane and put on another flight Thursday morning.

Urbanski said flights cannot depart if all passengers are not in their seats, which risks a delay, and it is important that passengers listen to the instructions of the flight crew.

The Port Authority of New York and New Jersey, which runs area airports, and the Transportation Security Administration, which handles airport security, said Thursday they weren't involved in the incident.

2008 The Associated Press

[phee]

Praying or not... he should have to sit down... if the plane had turbulence and he hit his head... he could have sued that tar out of them.

[freydis]

Wow.

Let people board, man!

[ttogreh]

While I respect his devotion to his faith, I feel that any reasonable Rabbi would have advised him to sit and then pray. Still, the flight attendants did not need to remove the man. That was just an exercise of their power in order to get back at someone that annoyed them.

[Gaf The Horse With Tears]

The plane was still boarding passangers. it was still at the terminal.

What was the real problem?

[phee]

The plane was still boarding passangers. it was still at the terminal.

What was the real problem?

Reading it again... I agree... if the plane was not in motion... there should have been no issue.

[Jadis]

It says that the plane was still boarding... they couldn't give the guy 2 minutes of peace to do what he felt he needed to do??? That just seems ridiculous.

[freydis]

Usually, on a lot of airlines i've flown, the lavatories are right in front of the boarding door. It sounds like he was in the way, blocking traffic so to speak. People get pissed when they run behind, especially if it's just for the sake of *one* person.

*edited for weird word usage. (is/are)*

[phee]

Usually, on a lot of airlines i've flown, the lavatories is right in front of the boarding door. It sounds like he was in the way, blocking traffic so to speak. People get pissed when they run behind, especially if it's just for the sake of *one* person.

That is a good point that deserves clarification... was he holding up everyone? Or was he in the back?

[Msterbeau]

I'm torn. It seems trivial... On the other hand, they told him to sit. He could have made arrangements with the crew before he started.

[TygerLili]

I have to assume that he was either in the way, or holding up prep for take off. If people were still getting on, stowing their carry-ons, etc. I find it hard to believe anyone would have even noticed him being out of his seat. Having been on a plane 3 days ago, all bets are definitely off when people are still getting situated.

I'm torn as well. I'm not that familiar with Orthodox Judaism, is there some fundamental reason that he couldn't have prayed from his seat?

[Gaf The Horse With Tears]

yes there is. Once they start the prayer ritual they can not stop till it's done. Same with Muslims.

[torn asunder]

two words - power trip...

[Rev.Reverence]

The class of Jew they described :

A) must say daily prayers at specific times...

B) must stand...

C) read TORA aloud...

D) must be as private as possible in saying said prayers...

..and other particulars... like ignoring EVERYTHING but TORA...

..so we can logistify... he wasn't in the way...

..and were I his Rabbi, I would say 1 word...SUE...

[phee]

two words - power trip...

From who?

The airlines or the Rabbi?

Or both?

[Msterbeau]

The class of Jew they described :

A) must say daily prayers at specific times...

B) must stand...

C) read TORA aloud...

D) must be as private as possible in saying said prayers...

..and other particulars... like ignoring EVERYTHING but TORA...

..so we can logistify... he wasn't in the way...

..and were I his Rabbi, I would say 1 word...SUE...

Well... Like I said... He should have made arrangements with the airline/crew. Responsibility and accommodation go both ways here.

[Rev.Reverence]

...Oh yeah, Hasidics, Muslims, certain Yogi's... weirdoes like me... should really exhibit a, more than 'common sense'...

.I just meant as Rabbi I would see a cut, so I'ld say, 'SUE'...

[Msterbeau]

...Oh yeah, Hasidics, Muslims, certain Yogi's... weirdoes like me... should really exhibit a, more than 'common sense'...

.I just meant as Rabbi I would see a cut, so I'ld say, 'SUE'...

Just what the world needs..

[Rev.Reverence]

Yeah... such is often the case...

[torn asunder]

From who?

The airlines or the Rabbi?

Or both?

airline reps...

it was a few minutes, and he wasn't interfering, as he was at the back of the plane... i feel it was just a power trip - they booted him cuz they could, imo...

[Gaf The Horse With Tears]

Just what the world needs..

Even though your being sarcastic.. I have to agree. The world needs more people to stand up for thier rights.

Be they taking a moment to pray or trying to get on a plane with nipple rings.

[Msterbeau]

Even though your being sarcastic.. I have to agree. The world needs more people to stand up for thier rights.

Be they taking a moment to pray or trying to get on a plane with nipple rings.

I meant the lawsuits.

I'm not saying the airline was being reasonable here throwing him off... But I think the man should have said something to the flight crew before just launching into his prayers.

[Gaf The Horse With Tears]

airline reps...

it was a few minutes, and he wasn't interfering, as he was at the back of the plane... i feel it was just a power trip - they booted him cuz they could, imo...

She most likely was afraid.. she didn't know what religion he was... just that he was an oddly dressed arabic looking man praying at the back of the plane.

Anyone notice they detained him over night? Without calling the Port authority or Police? Excuse me?

[Gaf The Horse With Tears]

I meant the lawsuits.

I'm not saying the airline was being reasonable here throwing him off... But I think the man should have said something to the flight crew before just launching into his prayers.

Why? He went to the back of the plane. He was out of the way of boarding passangers. There was plenty of time for him to do it and not delay the plane.

When exactly did he give up his Freedom of Religion and submit his prayer schedual to Airline approval?

At certains time of the day... Muslims, no matter where they are... put down a rug, face Mecca, kneel and pray. They do not stop until the prayer is done.

Some Jewish sects have this ritual. It's part of thier Faith.

[Destroit]

She most likely was afraid.. she didn't know what religion he was... just that he was an oddly dressed arabic looking man praying at the back of the plane.

Anyone notice they detained him over night? Without calling the Port authority or Police? Excuse me?

...arabic looking? Sounds to me like you're making an assumption on that. I've NEVER mistaked an orthodox jew for an arabic person because not only do their features generally differ greatly, but also what they wear definately doesn't look anything alike.