Bureaucrats Only Care For Compliance.

[ttogreh]

Check this out.

The long ans short of it is, an attempt to make a municipality function more effectively was denied by a fool with no sense of imagination, and no color in his life.

If I ever call you a bureaucrat, pray that I am mistaken, for I have accused you of an unfogiveable sin.

[Goth Brooks]

you complain about wasting taxpayers money in the thread about the rootbeer kegger, then get irate about this when the town wasted $1700 on those stupid signs?

instead of using amusing mini signs to get drivers to comply with the law, how about letting cops off the leash and allowing them the power to enforce the law.

[ttogreh]

1,700 dollars is a drop in the bucket compared to the man hours required to cow people into submission.

Think about it for a second. I am talking about dynamic, non-coercive, non-destructive solutions to long standing problems.

Oh, and by the way, I am a nerdy geek, and damn proud of it.

[Gaf The Horse With Tears]

What a waste of money. If I were a tax payer in that area, I would want to know why the local government decided to implement something like this before they found out if it was legal. I would also like to know why the police are not doing thier jobs and enforcing the Laws of the land.

[hunhee]

They're humourous, but umm.. they could also be very distracting to drivers. I know there's WAY too much shit people try to do in their cars, one more thing is unnecessary distraction.

I agree.. waste of money, they should have KNOWN this type of humour wouldn't plant well with the traffic laws put into place. They're SO highly regulated, that they should have known this shit wouldn't fly.

There are so many laws governing traffic signs, size, color, shape, how that would get by the city's attorneys, I have NO clue..they were all snoozing that day.

[freydis]

Are they not ticketing people or something?

They are kinda funny, though.

[hunhee]

Are they not ticketing people or something?

They are kinda funny, though.

They must not be, maybe they thought putting the signs up they could put them up in place of hiring police officers (1700 is a LOT cheaper than a salary and health insurance to maintain an officer).. would be interesting to see why people just aren't obeying the laws.

[ttogreh]

They're humourous, but umm.. they could also be very distracting to drivers. I know there's WAY too much shit people try to do in their cars, one more thing is unnecessary distraction.

People weren't paying attention the THE ROAD. More over, they are STOP SIGNS. If people are distracted from whatever BULL SHIT they are doing in their car to get them to PAY ATTENTION TO A FUCKING STOP SIGN, then that is what could be called a "positive distraction".

Look, only someone with almost no concept of the rules of the road would not understand what these signs meant. A small town desperate to save money tried an innovative idea to keep costs down and the roads safe.

A humorless bureaucrat cared nothing for effectiveness, and only for compliance. You can assert that in hind sight it is a waste of taxpayer money. Sure. But holistically, (the mantra of my life) municipalities need to find ways to be more effective, both in costs and in quality of life.

What this bureaucrat has done, is basically forced this municipality to hire more officers to maintain traffic discipline. Ticket writers. The thousands of dollars that will be spent will in no way be offset by whatever revenue that can be accrued through the tickets.

What approach is TRULY the waste of taxpayer money, any ways?

[Oh_My_Goth]

That is silly.....& wasteful.....

[Gaf The Horse With Tears]

People weren't paying attention the THE ROAD. More over, they are STOP SIGNS. If people are distracted from whatever BULL SHIT they are doing in their car to get them to PAY ATTENTION TO A FUCKING STOP SIGN, then that is what could be called a "positive distraction".

Look, only someone with almost no concept of the rules of the road would not understand what these signs meant. A small town desperate to save money tried an innovative idea to keep costs down and the roads safe.

A humorless bureaucrat cared nothing for effectiveness, and only for compliance. You can assert that in hind sight it is a waste of taxpayer money. Sure. But holistically, (the mantra of my life) municipalities need to find ways to be more effective, both in costs and in quality of life.

What this bureaucrat has done, is basically forced this municipality to hire more officers to maintain traffic discipline. Ticket writers. The thousands of dollars that will be spent will in no way be offset by whatever revenue that can be accrued through the tickets.

What approach is TRULY the waste of taxpayer money, any ways?

No one said people dont understand them.. people blow them off. The police need to start giving out more tickets in that town... a source of revenue for the city and the biggest deterant to this type of activity short of accidents.

Or the town can put the signs back up and snub thier nose at DoT. Who will cut thier funding and fine them.

You can try to get people mad a some nameless bureaucrat all you like... it's his job to enforce the LAW and he did it. The town wasted $1700 on signes that were illegal. If they watned to make some change like this... their is a process to get it approved.. that they ignored.

[Goth Brooks]

I'm starting to wonder if you truly understand a police officer's role in society.

People weren't paying attention the THE ROAD. More over, they are STOP SIGNS. If people are distracted from whatever BULL SHIT they are doing in their car to get them to PAY ATTENTION TO A FUCKING STOP SIGN, then that is what could be called a "positive distraction".

Look, only someone with almost no concept of the rules of the road would not understand what these signs meant. A small town desperate to save money tried an innovative idea to keep costs down and the roads safe.

A humorless bureaucrat cared nothing for effectiveness, and only for compliance. You can assert that in hind sight it is a waste of taxpayer money. Sure. But holistically, (the mantra of my life) municipalities need to find ways to be more effective, both in costs and in quality of life.

What this bureaucrat has done, is basically forced this municipality to hire more officers to maintain traffic discipline. Ticket writers. The thousands of dollars that will be spent will in no way be offset by whatever revenue that can be accrued through the tickets.

What approach is TRULY the waste of taxpayer money, any ways?

[ttogreh]

Do keep the ad hominems to a minimum, Goth_Brooks.

No one said people dont understand them.. people blow them off. The police need to start giving out more tickets in that town... a source of revenue for the city and the biggest deterant to this type of activity short of accidents.

Or the town can put the signs back up and snub thier nose at DoT. Who will cut thier funding and fine them.

You can try to get people mad a some nameless bureaucrat all you like... it's his job to enforce the LAW and he did it. The town wasted $1700 on signes that were illegal. If they watned to make some change like this... their is a process to get it approved.. that they ignored.

All right, this asserts that the police are not handing tickets out, that the town would not attempt to find a way to make the signs legal, and that I am just trying to get people mad at one particular nameless bureaucrat.

A town has limited resources, and only so many police officers. I think it is safe to assume that when a police officer witnesses a disregard of the stop sign, he or she takes action.

As such, the only logical conclusion is that there are not enough police officers to enforce traffic discipline. Which leads to the only logical conclusion that 1,700 dollars was cheaper than hiring, training, and insuring more police officers for the express purpose of enforcing traffic discipline.

More over, I am unsure about the process required to approve the signs, but I think in all likelihood, if such a process is ultimately cheaper than a few more officers, the town will take steps to follow that process.

Finally, this nameless bureaucrat that you assert is the real focus of my anger, and not nameless bureacracy in general, could have informed the town of the best way to allow these signs, along with his order to remove them. However, he didn't... he wanted compliance, not effectiveness.

[Rev.Reverence]

Bureaucrats...you said it ttogreh

..unholy peons ruling with too much paper and VERY little heart.....

[Goth Brooks]

Do keep the ad hominems to a minimum, Goth_Brooks.

Ok fine.

Do you understand what the police department's role in society really is?

Better?

[TygerLili]

It doesn't say that the signs were effective, it says that the residents found them funny. The residents probably stopped, or slowed down, once to read and laugh at them, then kept right on running them, since they knew the town spent money to buy funny signs instead of increasing law inforcement in the area.

Getting a ticket, and being afraid of getting another one, would make me much more likely to pay attention to a law in the future than a silly sign.

[Gaf The Horse With Tears]

Do keep the ad hominems to a minimum, Goth_Brooks.

All right, this asserts that the police are not handing tickets out, that the town would not attempt to find a way to make the signs legal, and that I am just trying to get people mad at one particular nameless bureaucrat.

A town has limited resources, and only so many police officers. I think it is safe to assume that when a police officer witnesses a disregard of the stop sign, he or she takes action.

As such, the only logical conclusion is that there are not enough police officers to enforce traffic discipline. Which leads to the only logical conclusion that 1,700 dollars was cheaper than hiring, training, and insuring more police officers for the express purpose of enforcing traffic discipline.

More over, I am unsure about the process required to approve the signs, but I think in all likelihood, if such a process is ultimately cheaper than a few more officers, the town will take steps to follow that process.

Finally, this nameless bureaucrat that you assert is the real focus of my anger, and not nameless bureacracy in general, could have informed the town of the best way to allow these signs, along with his order to remove them. However, he didn't... he wanted compliance, not effectiveness.

OK. I am not a city official. I never have been. I swear on my fathers ashes I did not goggle this subject. Why do I say these things. I say them because even I know that a city CAN NOT just put up signs. There is a process that needs to be followed. DoT does studies.. traffic flow analysis and such. They decided if a signage change can or can not happen. They decide what signs can and can not be put up. There are safety issues to look at. A traffic light.. usually takes about 2 years to get approved or not approved... a yield sign being changed to a Stop sign about a year.

It's not the "nameless bureaucrat's" job to inform them of what the rules are. It's his job to enforce them. Ignorance of the Law is not an excuse. They put the signs up without going through the proper channels and procedures. They were told to take them down. If they didn't know what the proper procedures where... they should have requested that information from DoT or researched the procedures.

DoT's whole job is Safety. Traffic flow analysis and such. They study real traffic... they put signs, lights and roads where they do the most good. Where it keeps the people moving and not killing each other. (aas much as that is possible with idiots who ignore road signs) They decide the speed limit on a given street. They have standards. All stop signs look exactly a like for a reason. All yiled signs look exactly a like for a reason.

Those town officials wasted $1700 so they did not have to pay for a road study or hire more cops. WASTED. If they had done an hours research they would have known that thier signs were illegal and unsafe. $1700 (perhaps a bit more) would have gotten them an all weather camera and motion sensor designed to take a picture of the Lic. plate of anyone that did not come to a complete stop. They would only need one real one and a bunch of fake ones. Tell people about it. Dont tell them which is the real one. Move it around. When people start getting tickets in the mail... and summons to court/drivers lic. revoked for non-payment... people start stopping.

$1700 WASTED. These people need to loose thier jobs in the next election for wasting the peoples money.

[Gaf The Horse With Tears]

BTW... Small towns, who cant afford enough police to enforce local laws/ordanecnes... usually ask the County to help patrol their streets. I can show you many small towns in Michigan with 1 or 2 local police for a town with 5000+ people. They have the county police patrol the towns to help with law enforcement. Sometimes.. even State police.

Can you please stop defending this position your taking. It's not defensible. At all.